How worrisome is 25% teacher turnover at a DCPS elementary?
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
|
We are at a Title I, east of the park DCPS elementary that is supposedly improving and becoming more gentrified. The school got a new principal a few years ago who made a lot of changes, and combined with DCPS-wide pressures on teachers, it is probably no surprise that many teachers have left. Some are long-time staff who have retired, others are Teach for America types who went back to school, so maybe there's nothing unusual going on. But when I look more closely at the teacher turnover rate--25% this year, probably close to that last year-- it worries me.
What is a typical turnover rate at a good DCPS elementary (say at a WotP school)? What is turnover like at the best charters? Should I be worried? I'm glad to see dead wood removed, but don't you want a certain stability, too? Or this to be expected for an inner city, Title I public school? |
Anonymous
| 25% is high, yes. If it coincides with new leadership then it can mean that there was maybe some general "restructuring effort", teachers leaving along with their principal. For schools that have marked little progress that can even be something triggered from above, an for hopefully good reasons. Or if you see such a high % after a new principal has started, then it can mean that new principal brought with him or her a set of standards that were not previously applied to renew teachers. |
Anonymous
| Forgot to add: This is a perfect question for an open house or a conversation with a principal. Not only will you get a hopefully satisfying answer but you'll get a good sense of how forthcoming yet tactful a principal is in sharing personnel decisions. |
Anonymous
| How did you find out the teacher turnover rate? |
Anonymous
I compared last year's and this year's staff directory. |
Anonymous
| I just read an article that talked about teacher turnover rate in DCPS. I think it averages about 20% per year. |
Anonymous
Like off of the website? I've heard the staff pages can be unpredictable. |
Anonymous
|
Wouldn't a lack of turnover be equally troubling? I'm IB for a Capitol Hill DCPS whose website boasts that many of its teachers have been there for over 20 years, when nobody in the neighborhood would have sent their kids there even 10 years ago?
Sometimes, turnover is preferable to the same old crowd. |
Anonymous
| That seems high - either the teachers are leaving or principal is cleaning house. Our principal 'had to let go' one of our teachers who was not effective in the classroom and class test scores reflected it. She said the person was really smart, really great with kids, really well intentioned but just not effective and had trouble controlling their classroom. Last year we lost a couple people - one moved to the Midwest and another took a position as a master teacher at a non-profit. |
Anonymous
Whether "the neighborhood" sends kids there or not says little to nothing about teacher quality. Our IB school - could easily be the one you're looking at - has a great many teachers with 20+ years of experience. They really are great teachers and most of them have received official, high profile recognition for it. In a situation like that, you can also mix in very inexperienced teachers and set up structures to help them learn from one another. One of those 20+ teachers was adamant that even an elementary school faculty is an ongoing learning community and must be treated as such. |
Anonymous
What is the inboundary rate vs out of boundary rate for the school? Also, have a lot of involved and active families left the school too? It could be the principal. |
Anonymous
OP here. It's largely a neighborhood school. I would say on balance more higher SES families are staying. Overall I think the school is improving (more families staying, test scores stable or rising). Yet the teacher turnover rate is still so high. There are teachers who were new last year and didn't stay past their first year. Were they not very good? Was it the school? As one previous poster said, I suppose I need to put this question to the principal. Most of this turnover is in 3rd-5th grade. Maybe it's hard to hold on to those teachers because of the pressure to raise test scores? |
Anonymous
My understanding is EOTP, most higher performing and better behaved children exit to charter and private schools. I've heard that the rationale is that 3rd and 4th grade are the least competitive entry points to other schools. This phenomena would result in a different student population by 3rd thru 5th grades. I've seen very sucessful and eager young teachers be turned off by "old school" teaching philoshopies. In addition, a sizeable portion of the Teach for America types that are assigned EOTP are of ethnicities that differ from their student body. In addition, these teachers are discouraged by the lack of parental involvement, lack of support from principals (some principals don't want teachers who don't look like their students correcting the children), or are afraid of the parents and students, who threaten them. I've seen it in an ETOP school and it's been disappointing. I've also heard that the principals rarely back the teachers and almost always side with parents and students, who can be beligerent, rude, and disrespectful. I find it highly unlikely that the principal will admit that the turnover is related to their leadership. If anything, the response will most likely be that the teacher didn't "fit". |
Anonymous
|
You might solicit greater insight by identifying the school. It's a fairly straightforward question. Teachers leave for lots of reasons.
|
Anonymous
| You can also buttonhole members of the LSAT to get their perspective. |