DCI or Deal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You only have 2 years at best when parents are interested in helping their kid’s high school. By junior year everyone is on to figuring out college, test prep, campus visits.

Then think of all the normal teen stuff parents trying to help their kids navigate - substances, teen driving, sex - tilting at DCPS windmills just isn’t that high on the list of priorities.

This exactly. Plus people tend to "own their choices". I see a lot of this among DCPS parents in my upper NW neighborhood. They will go to death saying that our neighborhood school and Deal and Wilson are "great".
Why? Because subconsciously who wants to admit that they put their kid in a subpar situation? Once you make a choice, you tend to own the choice and see the best in it.

I have 2 kids at Deal and I really can't tell you what they learned this year and they both got straight As with minimal work. One is taking a summer class at one of the well-known privates and told me,
"mom, this is so different than Deal. I learned more this week than in the year at Deal. The class is quiet and my teacher actually knows how to write without a million mistakes herself".
I think Deal tries really hard with the cards they've been dealt. The principal works tirelessly. Many of the teachers are incredibly devoted and inspired. However, others are awful. The classrooms are more often than not chaotic due to misbehaving kids.
The academic standards are low and are mostly based on "if you do the work you get an A'. There is ZERO challenge for high performing kids outside of the advanced math track and the language humanities classes. The rest of the classes can be "aced"
by any kid who does the homework.

That just wasn't our experience at Deal at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You only have 2 years at best when parents are interested in helping their kid’s high school. By junior year everyone is on to figuring out college, test prep, campus visits.

Then think of all the normal teen stuff parents trying to help their kids navigate - substances, teen driving, sex - tilting at DCPS windmills just isn’t that high on the list of priorities.

This exactly. Plus people tend to "own their choices". I see a lot of this among DCPS parents in my upper NW neighborhood. They will go to death saying that our neighborhood school and Deal and Wilson are "great".
Why? Because subconsciously who wants to admit that they put their kid in a subpar situation? Once you make a choice, you tend to own the choice and see the best in it.

I have 2 kids at Deal and I really can't tell you what they learned this year and they both got straight As with minimal work. One is taking a summer class at one of the well-known privates and told me,
"mom, this is so different than Deal. I learned more this week than in the year at Deal. The class is quiet and my teacher actually knows how to write without a million mistakes herself".
I think Deal tries really hard with the cards they've been dealt. The principal works tirelessly. Many of the teachers are incredibly devoted and inspired. However, others are awful. The classrooms are more often than not chaotic due to misbehaving kids.
The academic standards are low and are mostly based on "if you do the work you get an A'. There is ZERO challenge for high performing kids outside of the advanced math track and the language humanities classes. The rest of the classes can be "aced"
by any kid who does the homework.

Hyperbole much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You only have 2 years at best when parents are interested in helping their kid’s high school. By junior year everyone is on to figuring out college, test prep, campus visits.

Then think of all the normal teen stuff parents trying to help their kids navigate - substances, teen driving, sex - tilting at DCPS windmills just isn’t that high on the list of priorities.

This exactly. Plus people tend to "own their choices". I see a lot of this among DCPS parents in my upper NW neighborhood. They will go to death saying that our neighborhood school and Deal and Wilson are "great".
Why? Because subconsciously who wants to admit that they put their kid in a subpar situation? Once you make a choice, you tend to own the choice and see the best in it.

I have 2 kids at Deal and I really can't tell you what they learned this year and they both got straight As with minimal work. One is taking a summer class at one of the well-known privates and told me,
"mom, this is so different than Deal. I learned more this week than in the year at Deal. The class is quiet and my teacher actually knows how to write without a million mistakes herself".
I think Deal tries really hard with the cards they've been dealt. The principal works tirelessly. Many of the teachers are incredibly devoted and inspired. However, others are awful. The classrooms are more often than not chaotic due to misbehaving kids.
The academic standards are low and are mostly based on "if you do the work you get an A'. There is ZERO challenge for high performing kids outside of the advanced math track and the language humanities classes. The rest of the classes can be "aced"
by any kid who does the homework.

That just wasn't our experience at Deal at all.

When were you at Deal? Is it possible that the quality has just gone down hill? I've head that the chaos has increased a lot in recent classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You only have 2 years at best when parents are interested in helping their kid’s high school. By junior year everyone is on to figuring out college, test prep, campus visits.

Then think of all the normal teen stuff parents trying to help their kids navigate - substances, teen driving, sex - tilting at DCPS windmills just isn’t that high on the list of priorities.

This exactly. Plus people tend to "own their choices". I see a lot of this among DCPS parents in my upper NW neighborhood. They will go to death saying that our neighborhood school and Deal and Wilson are "great".
Why? Because subconsciously who wants to admit that they put their kid in a subpar situation? Once you make a choice, you tend to own the choice and see the best in it.

I have 2 kids at Deal and I really can't tell you what they learned this year and they both got straight As with minimal work. One is taking a summer class at one of the well-known privates and told me,
"mom, this is so different than Deal. I learned more this week than in the year at Deal. The class is quiet and my teacher actually knows how to write without a million mistakes herself".
I think Deal tries really hard with the cards they've been dealt. The principal works tirelessly. Many of the teachers are incredibly devoted and inspired. However, others are awful. The classrooms are more often than not chaotic due to misbehaving kids.
The academic standards are low and are mostly based on "if you do the work you get an A'. There is ZERO challenge for high performing kids outside of the advanced math track and the language humanities classes. The rest of the classes can be "aced"
by any kid who does the homework.

That just wasn't our experience at Deal at all.

Agree! I moved my child from a Big 3 private to Deal. My child was bored at the Big 3 because they didn’t differentiate enough. There was more homework but not more learning. (More busywork.) Big 3 didn’t accelerate in humanities either. I found Deal to be no worse in humanities and better with advanced math than the Big 3 ....and it’s free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to move to the suburbs for a better high school experience you need to do it by 7th and apply to one of the magnets. The comprehensive high schools pretty much have the same issues as Wilson.

Don’t assume a suburban high school will challenge your somewhat slothful student. They will not be allowed to take the challenging classes (tracking works against you now) and their weighted GPA will reflect it.

There are better non-college career options in the suburbs though.

Not buying it for either MoCo or VA programs.

We have DC friends who bailed for MoCo, Fairfax or Arlington after 8th grade. The MD-bound got hold of MoCo addresses six months prior, so the kids could apply to the magnets at Richard Montgomery (IB Diploma program) and Blair (STEM magnet and communications arts). The kids were admitted.

Others enrolled in VA for 9th grade without having tested into programs, yet were able to access a range of serious AP classes and/or IB Diploma programs after parents advocated for their students. We hear that most suburban honors programs will work with you coming out of DC if your kid submits competitive standardized test scores (SAT subject tests, PSAT etc.).

So what you are saying is that Deal's IB for all program prepared DC kids for the MoCo magnets that so few MoCo kids get into and they also were so well prepared by DC schools that VA worked with them to move them ahead into AP and IB classes (that they could have taken in DC).

No, that's what you're saying.

It's no secret that many Deal parents pay a lot, and hustle a lot, to ensure that the kids are well-prepared for the rigor found at a variety of private and suburban high schools. Deal is just OK academically overall, good in some areas, but not great

Yes, technically the kids could have taken most of the same AP and IB classes in DC as in suburbia and privates, but that's where the comparison ends. Your student can't waltz into AP and IB classes classes into the top public and independent high schools in this Metro area - they need to clear an academic bar before being given access to certain classes. This is seldom the case at Wilson, other than for math and advanced languages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to move to the suburbs for a better high school experience you need to do it by 7th and apply to one of the magnets. The comprehensive high schools pretty much have the same issues as Wilson.

Don’t assume a suburban high school will challenge your somewhat slothful student. They will not be allowed to take the challenging classes (tracking works against you now) and their weighted GPA will reflect it.

There are better non-college career options in the suburbs though.

Not buying it for either MoCo or VA programs.

We have DC friends who bailed for MoCo, Fairfax or Arlington after 8th grade. The MD-bound got hold of MoCo addresses six months prior, so the kids could apply to the magnets at Richard Montgomery (IB Diploma program) and Blair (STEM magnet and communications arts). The kids were admitted.

Others enrolled in VA for 9th grade without having tested into programs, yet were able to access a range of serious AP classes and/or IB Diploma programs after parents advocated for their students. We hear that most suburban honors programs will work with you coming out of DC if your kid submits competitive standardized test scores (SAT subject tests, PSAT etc.).

So what you are saying is that Deal's IB for all program prepared DC kids for the MoCo magnets that so few MoCo kids get into and they also were so well prepared by DC schools that VA worked with them to move them ahead into AP and IB classes (that they could have taken in DC).

No, that's what you're saying.

It's no secret that many Deal parents pay a lot, and hustle a lot, to ensure that the kids are well-prepared for the rigor found at a variety of private and suburban high schools. Deal is just OK academically overall, good in some areas, but not great

Yes, technically the kids could have taken most of the same AP and IB classes in DC as in suburbia and privates, but that's where the comparison ends. Your student can't waltz into AP and IB classes classes into the top public and independent high schools in this Metro area - they need to clear an academic bar before being given access to certain classes. This is seldom the case at Wilson, other than for math and advanced languages.

This is our experience. It's ok. Nothing more.
I'm honestly not a Debbie downer and I'm really pro-public school. I have no desire to move my kids to either private or suburban public. But our experience at Deal has truly been mediocre. When I say my kids get all As with little effort, I mean it. They rarely have homework, they ace the tests in class.
I don't consider my kids super smart but they're either smarter than I think or the school isn't challenging at all (and this is the highest math track). I don't get what others are saying they're experiencing. Maybe my kids have just had bad luck with teachers and classes.

[Anonymous]

DCPS requires: assessments=40%, classwork=55%, and homework=5%. This discourages teachers from assigning (and grading) a lot of homework. It’s just not worth our time. -Upper NW teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wilson provided a well rounded atmosphere for my AA daughter. She was provided a solid academic offerings and is at a great university.

It may not work for some, but it's what you make of it.

Right, but your daughter must have attended Wilson before Honors for All.

Principal Martin has made great strides in screwing up the experience for advanced students in humanities and science classes in the last two school years. Only math and foreign languages remain a safe bet.

Wilson is no longer just what a family "makes of it." Any high school is the sum of its parts, including appropriate rigor and good teaching the brightest, best prepared and most motivated students have access to. Political concerns should not trump academic prerogatives like this.

Banneker and Walls? Come on, where are the white and Asian kids at Banneker (we're Asian)? Where is the effort to recruit them? If your student doesn't crack Walls, what good option do you have in Upper NW if you can't afford privates for your strong and enthusiastic humanities student? They can sit in class alongside a bunch of kids who can't work at a middle school level in "Honors" classes. Sheet idiocy.

If you child is all that, they will get into Walls. And find that it can be just as uneven as Wilson. Because you take a test to get in there isn’t tracking. But the test is only one part of admission and there is a wide range in preparedness. Toss in a few meh teachers — and you have a public school where it is on students to push themselves to a large degree.

As for Wilson, it had NEVER been what you are seeking. And DCPS probably doesn’t want it to be what you are describing. You can tail about Marting all you want, but the beloved former principal didn’t share your vision either.



Apply to private. You may get financial aid. If you have a boy St Anselm’s may be a good fit (many non-Catholic kids btw) and tuition is less than half of that of GDS of SFS.

Totally disagree. It is difficult to get into Walls. Stats are about 10% or so of those that take the test get in. You are right that students are motivated which is a good thing - motivated advanced students who want to learn, significantly less behavioral issues. Teachers there like any school can be hit or miss. The opportunities for students there to take a significant amount of college level GW classes provides a great opportunity to really challenge the most advanced students.

Not everyone can afford private.

You have the entrance data wrong. ~1000 apply. Each year only 500 sit for the test because they don’t meet the qualifications, making Walls seem more selective than it is.

140 are admitted. Another 60-80 are added to the WL and the last few years, about 60 have gotten in.

SWW has a ~30-40% acceptance rate.

Also ANY DC high school student can take college classes through dual enrollment. Not unique to Walls.

On walls board from the previous year

“8th graders need a minimum 3.0 to take the test. Of the 1240 applications submitted, only 263 made it past the test for an offer or waitlist. That's 21% of applicants who had a 3.0 or higher. Of that 140 got offers following the interviews, which is just over 11%. That's not different from some of the more selective private schools.”

Also not very correct about college courses. Some high schools will let you take 1 at best 2 college level courses a semester with whatever college that the school has the relationship.with which by the way is not convenient to the high school. Walls let’s you take ALL college level classes junior and senior year at GW which is next door and get a certification noting such. Much more rigor and challenging. The child is being fully challenged with all college level courses and that potential colleges are aware they are already performing at this level.

[Anonymous]

The person you quoted didn’t say how many were allowed to take the test. That’s the applicant pool - not how many listed Walls in their lottery app. Several hundred of those who “apply” never take the exam because they didn’t have the GPA or PARCC scores. MSDC doesn’t weed those people out. It happens manually by the Walls staff.

You also need to include the WL students since almost all of whom get an offer.

For SY 18-19 SWW made 140 offers initially with 51 on the WL. By June they had to ADD students to the 9th grade WL because they were under enrolled.

The point is that the likelihood that the PP’s strong student that isn’t being challenged sufficiently at Deal will be shut out at Walls is highly unlikely. It isn’t Bronx Science and we don’t live in New York.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The person you quoted didn’t say how many were allowed to take the test. That’s the applicant pool - not how many listed Walls in their lottery app. Several hundred of those who “apply” never take the exam because they didn’t have the GPA or PARCC scores. MSDC doesn’t weed those people out. It happens manually by the Walls staff.

You also need to include the WL students since almost all of whom get an offer.

For SY 18-19 SWW made 140 offers initially with 51 on the WL. By June they had to ADD students to the 9th grade WL because they were under enrolled.

The point is that the likelihood that the PP’s strong student that isn’t being challenged sufficiently at Deal will be shut out at Walls is highly unlikely. It isn’t Bronx Science and we don’t live in New York.

Whatever the applications or however many take the test, expect that number to increase significantly with honors for all. No doubt about it. And what they do is take the top scorers on the test, can’t remember 200, 250. So even if your kid scored 95%, if whatever number 200 scored higher, they won’t be offered an interview.

Also expect much more competition from gentrifying EOTP neighborhoods with increasing more middle class families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to move to the suburbs for a better high school experience you need to do it by 7th and apply to one of the magnets. The comprehensive high schools pretty much have the same issues as Wilson.

Don’t assume a suburban high school will challenge your somewhat slothful student. They will not be allowed to take the challenging classes (tracking works against you now) and their weighted GPA will reflect it.

There are better non-college career options in the suburbs though.

Not buying it for either MoCo or VA programs.

We have DC friends who bailed for MoCo, Fairfax or Arlington after 8th grade. The MD-bound got hold of MoCo addresses six months prior, so the kids could apply to the magnets at Richard Montgomery (IB Diploma program) and Blair (STEM magnet and communications arts). The kids were admitted.

Others enrolled in VA for 9th grade without having tested into programs, yet were able to access a range of serious AP classes and/or IB Diploma programs after parents advocated for their students. We hear that most suburban honors programs will work with you coming out of DC if your kid submits competitive standardized test scores (SAT subject tests, PSAT etc.).

So what you are saying is that Deal's IB for all program prepared DC kids for the MoCo magnets that so few MoCo kids get into and they also were so well prepared by DC schools that VA worked with them to move them ahead into AP and IB classes (that they could have taken in DC).

No, that's what you're saying.

It's no secret that many Deal parents pay a lot, and hustle a lot, to ensure that the kids are well-prepared for the rigor found at a variety of private and suburban high schools. Deal is just OK academically overall, good in some areas, but not great

Yes, technically the kids could have taken most of the same AP and IB classes in DC as in suburbia and privates, but that's where the comparison ends. Your student can't waltz into AP and IB classes classes into the top public and independent high schools in this Metro area - they need to clear an academic bar before being given access to certain classes. This is seldom the case at Wilson, other than for math and advanced languages.

+ 100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You only have 2 years at best when parents are interested in helping their kid’s high school. By junior year everyone is on to figuring out college, test prep, campus visits.

Then think of all the normal teen stuff parents trying to help their kids navigate - substances, teen driving, sex - tilting at DCPS windmills just isn’t that high on the list of priorities.

This exactly. Plus people tend to "own their choices". I see a lot of this among DCPS parents in my upper NW neighborhood. They will go to death saying that our neighborhood school and Deal and Wilson are "great".
Why? Because subconsciously who wants to admit that they put their kid in a subpar situation? Once you make a choice, you tend to own the choice and see the best in it.

I have 2 kids at Deal and I really can't tell you what they learned this year and they both got straight As with minimal work. One is taking a summer class at one of the well-known privates and told me,
"mom, this is so different than Deal. I learned more this week than in the year at Deal. The class is quiet and my teacher actually knows how to write without a million mistakes herself".
I think Deal tries really hard with the cards they've been dealt. The principal works tirelessly. Many of the teachers are incredibly devoted and inspired. However, others are awful. The classrooms are more often than not chaotic due to misbehaving kids.
The academic standards are low and are mostly based on "if you do the work you get an A'. There is ZERO challenge for high performing kids outside of the advanced math track and the language humanities classes. The rest of the classes can be "aced"
by any kid who does the homework.

That just wasn't our experience at Deal at all.

When were you at Deal? Is it possible that the quality has just gone down hill? I've head that the chaos has increased a lot in recent classes.

2015 to present.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You only have 2 years at best when parents are interested in helping their kid’s high school. By junior year everyone is on to figuring out college, test prep, campus visits.

Then think of all the normal teen stuff parents trying to help their kids navigate - substances, teen driving, sex - tilting at DCPS windmills just isn’t that high on the list of priorities.

This exactly. Plus people tend to "own their choices". I see a lot of this among DCPS parents in my upper NW neighborhood. They will go to death saying that our neighborhood school and Deal and Wilson are "great".
Why? Because subconsciously who wants to admit that they put their kid in a subpar situation? Once you make a choice, you tend to own the choice and see the best in it.

I have 2 kids at Deal and I really can't tell you what they learned this year and they both got straight As with minimal work. One is taking a summer class at one of the well-known privates and told me,
"mom, this is so different than Deal. I learned more this week than in the year at Deal. The class is quiet and my teacher actually knows how to write without a million mistakes herself".
I think Deal tries really hard with the cards they've been dealt. The principal works tirelessly. Many of the teachers are incredibly devoted and inspired. However, others are awful. The classrooms are more often than not chaotic due to misbehaving kids.
The academic standards are low and are mostly based on "if you do the work you get an A'. There is ZERO challenge for high performing kids outside of the advanced math track and the language humanities classes. The rest of the classes can be "aced"
by any kid who does the homework.

That just wasn't our experience at Deal at all.

When were you at Deal? Is it possible that the quality has just gone down hill? I've head that the chaos has increased a lot in recent classes.

2015 to present.

It’s all relative isn’t it? One family’s definition of advanced can be quite different than another family. It’s obvious that the families who say it’s too easy for their child or those who need to supplement much that their child’s needs are not being met. This might be different from another family who think their child’s needs are met whose child is likely not as “advanced” as the first family.

[Anonymous]

This might be stating the obvious, but favorable demographics alone can't provide rigor for the brightest students in DCPS. As long as Deal insists on tossing students working behind grade level (sometimes far behind) into the same 6th-8th grade ELA, social studies and science classes as those working at or above grade (sometimes far above), the strongest students obviously can't be well served across the board. Affluent parents can compensate for the lack of challenge, while low SES parents usually can't. Totally unfair.

I don't get why Stuart Hobson can offer honors classes in almost every subject while Deal can't, or at least doesn't. Somebody please explain this to me. If honors classes are now permitted in public middle schools in this city, why can't we have them at Deal? Not just for math but for every academic subject? We can't have them because Hobson is one of the Capitol Cluster schools (sort of neighborhood charter schools since the 80s) but Deal is administered directly by DCPS or what? Serious question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This might be stating the obvious, but favorable demographics alone can't provide rigor for the brightest students in DCPS. As long as Deal insists on tossing students working behind grade level (sometimes far behind) into the same 6th-8th grade ELA, social studies and science classes as those working at or above grade (sometimes far above), the strongest students obviously can't be well served across the board. Affluent parents can compensate for the lack of challenge, while low SES parents usually can't. Totally unfair.

I don't get why Stuart Hobson can offer honors classes in almost every subject while Deal can't, or at least doesn't. Somebody please explain this to me. If honors classes are now permitted in public middle schools in this city, why can't we have them at Deal? Not just for math but for every academic subject? We can't have them because Hobson is one of the Capitol Cluster schools (sort of neighborhood charter schools since the 80s) but Deal is administered directly by DCPS or what? Serious question.

Because the gulf between advanced and below level students at SH is far great than it is at Deal. Using PARCC as the measure:

Deal - 11% scored 1 or 2 in ELA; 15% in Math
SH - 28% score 1 or 2 in ELA; 56% in Math

A portion of those below-level students at Deal is ELLs or students with disabilities*. You literally CAN"T put those students in separate, segregated classrooms. Particularly in the case of students with disabilities because federal law prohibits it, unless they have such significant needs than there is no other way to deliver specialized instruction.

*NOTE: I am not saying all students with disabilities are below grade level. Many also score 5s.