Roe v Wade struck down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Republicans keep losing on this issue because they are sending mixed messages. For instance, they argue that all abortion is murder and that life begins at the instant of conception, but are okay with abortion bans that start at 15 weeks. (If life begins at conception, then abortion is just as wrong at 13 weeks as it is at 16 weeks.) Or that only abortion doctors, and not women who receive abortions, should be punished for having an abortion. (If a husband hires a hit man to murder his wife, do we say that only the hit man should be arrested and charged with a crime?) Or that abortion is okay in cases of rape and incest. (Why should method of conception matter if the baby is innocent?) Republicans are failing miserably on the messaging because people can clearly recognize that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.

Vivek Ramaswamy was on CNN last night trying to make the same argument with a straight face: "We are losing on abortion because our messaging is terrible, we don't do a good job of selling this to the voters, blah blah blah...."

Kaitlin Collins was dumbstruck by his argument and was like "Maybe - after 7 straight losses - the Republicans' policy on abortion is just out-of-step with voters?" To which Ramadwamy replied "No, we have a messaging problem."

These people are in such a bubble of group-think. They are going to keep trying to force anti-abortion measures on people at the local level. The Ohio GOP elites are in full revolt against the voters of the state.

[Anonymous]

The GOP’s attack on women’s rights via attacks on prenatal care is paying dividends for the party that loves causing misery. Newborn syphilis cases have reached “dire levels.”

“Mothers can also pass the disease to their children during pregnancy. This form of the infection, known as congenital syphilis, can potentially result in stillbirth, miscarriage, death or developmental disabilities such as blindness or hearing loss.

Last year, 51 cases of congenital syphilis resulted in infant deaths and 231 in stillbirths.

But almost 90% of those cases could have been avoided with timely testing and treatment during pregnancy, according to the CDC report. In 40% of cases, there was no evidence that the pregnant person had received prenatal care at all.

“It is unbelievable how this could all be prevented if we just had patients get in for screening and treatment,” said Dr. Irene Stafford, a maternal-fetal medicine physician with UTHealth Houston, who wasn’t involved in the report.”

Gee, maybe attacking and closing places like Planned Parenthood was bad, what do you think, forced birthers? https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/newborn-syphilis-cases-reached-dire-levels-cdc-says-rcna123856

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am not as good about voting as I should be for off year elections. For example I missed the gubernatorial election that made Youngkin governor. But happy to say that I am getting ready to go vote this morning for reproductive rights. Straight dem ticket.

Thank you.

I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?

There is absolutely no evidence that fetuses feel pain at 16 weeks. The brain structure just isn’t there.

And stop being an idiot. Seriously if you’re bumbling around in here and trying to act new about abortion, having ignored all the hundreds of articles about why women have had to get later abortions (and how your hateful forced birth politics force abortions from first trimester to second), you’re not a serious person.

DP I support abortion rights but disagree. I have some medical background and there definitely is evidence that fetuses fee pain after their organs are mostly formed by early second trimester.

The problem is that generally women wanting abortions after 16 weeks are doing so because either the life of the fetus is not viable outside the womb or their own lives are at risk and they have other loved ones to consider.

Happily the vast majority of abortions are in the first trimester.

Also abortion bans after six weeks cause many medical facilities to flee because they cannot make what should be private and medical decisions without extreme political interference. It ends up hurting all women even those who wish to carry babies to full term. Many ob-gyn facilities closed in anti abortion law states after Dobbs.

No, you are factually incorrect. https://www.acog.org/advocacy/facts-are-important/gestational-development-capacity-for-pain

“Rigorous scientific studies have found that the connections necessary to transmit signals from peripheral sensory nerves to the brain, as well as the brain structures necessary to process those signals, until at or after 24 weeks gestation. Because it lacks these connections or structures, a fetus or embryo does not have the physiological capacity to perceive pain until at least this gestational age.”

But yes, when it comes to abortion, most women who are pregnant and want to be not pregnant do so as fast as humanly possible.

Ok I stand corrected. The fetuses do have heart beats much earlier than that and they do move away from instruments aimed at removing them. Organs are mostly formed by early second trimester.

However, I am of the opinion that abortion rights should hold even if the fetuses did feel some pain after 16 weeks because usually abortions are sought due to fetus not being viable outside of the womb or endangering the mothers life.

Also, abortion decision should be made by women, their spouses, and their doctors without political interference.

Abortion bans are hurting all women due to political interference in medical decisions and procedures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Republicans keep losing on this issue because they are sending mixed messages. For instance, they argue that all abortion is murder and that life begins at the instant of conception, but are okay with abortion bans that start at 15 weeks. (If life begins at conception, then abortion is just as wrong at 13 weeks as it is at 16 weeks.) Or that only abortion doctors, and not women who receive abortions, should be punished for having an abortion. (If a husband hires a hit man to murder his wife, do we say that only the hit man should be arrested and charged with a crime?) Or that abortion is okay in cases of rape and incest. (Why should method of conception matter if the baby is innocent?) Republicans are failing miserably on the messaging because people can clearly recognize that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.

Vivek Ramaswamy was on CNN last night trying to make the same argument with a straight face: "We are losing on abortion because our messaging is terrible, we don't do a good job of selling this to the voters, blah blah blah...."

Kaitlin Collins was dumbstruck by his argument and was like "Maybe - after 7 straight losses - the Republicans' policy on abortion is just out-of-step with voters?" To which Ramadwamy replied "No, we have a messaging problem."

These people are in such a bubble of group-think. They are going to keep trying to force anti-abortion measures on people at the local level. The Ohio GOP elites are in full revolt against the voters of the state.

I think Ramaswamy is saying that it’s hard to explain why abortion is okay at 13 weeks, even though life begins at conception. That’s a tough needle to thread!

[Anonymous]

If you can't beat em, cheat em: GOP plans ways to undermine referendums on abortion.

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2023/11/after-voters-back-abortion-and-pot-gop-leaders-signal-plans-to-undermine-referendums.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Republicans keep losing on this issue because they are sending mixed messages. For instance, they argue that all abortion is murder and that life begins at the instant of conception, but are okay with abortion bans that start at 15 weeks. (If life begins at conception, then abortion is just as wrong at 13 weeks as it is at 16 weeks.) Or that only abortion doctors, and not women who receive abortions, should be punished for having an abortion. (If a husband hires a hit man to murder his wife, do we say that only the hit man should be arrested and charged with a crime?) Or that abortion is okay in cases of rape and incest. (Why should method of conception matter if the baby is innocent?) Republicans are failing miserably on the messaging because people can clearly recognize that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.

So you think a 100% abortion ban would be more palatable?

It would be morally coherent at least. If Republicans are comfortable saying, out of political expedience, that abortion is okay at 13 weeks, or in cases of rape/incest, and that women shouldn’t be punished for having an abortion, then it’s clear that they don’t *really* believe that life begins at conception or that abortion is murder. And if even Republicans don’t believe it, then why should the rest of us?

It would be morally coherent if the GOP also did things like supporting neo-natal care, pre-K, school breakfasts and lunches and opposed the death penalty.

But they don't so, it isn't.

[Anonymous]

But it is a messaging problem, LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am not as good about voting as I should be for off year elections. For example I missed the gubernatorial election that made Youngkin governor. But happy to say that I am getting ready to go vote this morning for reproductive rights. Straight dem ticket.

Thank you.

I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?

There is absolutely no evidence that fetuses feel pain at 16 weeks. The brain structure just isn’t there.

And stop being an idiot. Seriously if you’re bumbling around in here and trying to act new about abortion, having ignored all the hundreds of articles about why women have had to get later abortions (and how your hateful forced birth politics force abortions from first trimester to second), you’re not a serious person.

DP I support abortion rights but disagree. I have some medical background and there definitely is evidence that fetuses fee pain after their organs are mostly formed by early second trimester.

The problem is that generally women wanting abortions after 16 weeks are doing so because either the life of the fetus is not viable outside the womb or their own lives are at risk and they have other loved ones to consider.

Happily the vast majority of abortions are in the first trimester.

Also abortion bans after six weeks cause many medical facilities to flee because they cannot make what should be private and medical decisions without extreme political interference. It ends up hurting all women even those who wish to carry babies to full term. Many ob-gyn facilities closed in anti abortion law states after Dobbs.

No, you are factually incorrect. https://www.acog.org/advocacy/facts-are-important/gestational-development-capacity-for-pain

“Rigorous scientific studies have found that the connections necessary to transmit signals from peripheral sensory nerves to the brain, as well as the brain structures necessary to process those signals, until at or after 24 weeks gestation. Because it lacks these connections or structures, a fetus or embryo does not have the physiological capacity to perceive pain until at least this gestational age.”

But yes, when it comes to abortion, most women who are pregnant and want to be not pregnant do so as fast as humanly possible.

Ok I stand corrected. The fetuses do have heart beats much earlier than that and they do move away from instruments aimed at removing them. Organs are mostly formed by early second trimester.

However, I am of the opinion that abortion rights should hold even if the fetuses did feel some pain after 16 weeks because usually abortions are sought due to fetus not being viable outside of the womb or endangering the mothers life.

Also, abortion decision should be made by women, their spouses, and their doctors without political interference.

Abortion bans are hurting all women due to political interference in medical decisions and procedures.

Fetuses don’t have heartbeats as early as you think they do, either. That’s more Republican misinformation just like their “pain-capable” line of BS. The heart hasn’t formed at six weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am not as good about voting as I should be for off year elections. For example I missed the gubernatorial election that made Youngkin governor. But happy to say that I am getting ready to go vote this morning for reproductive rights. Straight dem ticket.

Thank you.

I’m not against abortion, but we do have reproductive rights in VA. Abortion up to 16 weeks (when fetus feels pain), and full exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother. I’m not understanding what other rights are needed. Until birth? After birth? Healthy fetus, not healthy?

There is absolutely no evidence that fetuses feel pain at 16 weeks. The brain structure just isn’t there.

And stop being an idiot. Seriously if you’re bumbling around in here and trying to act new about abortion, having ignored all the hundreds of articles about why women have had to get later abortions (and how your hateful forced birth politics force abortions from first trimester to second), you’re not a serious person.

DP I support abortion rights but disagree. I have some medical background and there definitely is evidence that fetuses fee pain after their organs are mostly formed by early second trimester.

The problem is that generally women wanting abortions after 16 weeks are doing so because either the life of the fetus is not viable outside the womb or their own lives are at risk and they have other loved ones to consider.

Happily the vast majority of abortions are in the first trimester.

Also abortion bans after six weeks cause many medical facilities to flee because they cannot make what should be private and medical decisions without extreme political interference. It ends up hurting all women even those who wish to carry babies to full term. Many ob-gyn facilities closed in anti abortion law states after Dobbs.

No, you are factually incorrect. https://www.acog.org/advocacy/facts-are-important/gestational-development-capacity-for-pain

“Rigorous scientific studies have found that the connections necessary to transmit signals from peripheral sensory nerves to the brain, as well as the brain structures necessary to process those signals, until at or after 24 weeks gestation. Because it lacks these connections or structures, a fetus or embryo does not have the physiological capacity to perceive pain until at least this gestational age.”

But yes, when it comes to abortion, most women who are pregnant and want to be not pregnant do so as fast as humanly possible.

Ok I stand corrected. The fetuses do have heart beats much earlier than that and they do move away from instruments aimed at removing them. Organs are mostly formed by early second trimester.

However, I am of the opinion that abortion rights should hold even if the fetuses did feel some pain after 16 weeks because usually abortions are sought due to fetus not being viable outside of the womb or endangering the mothers life.

Also, abortion decision should be made by women, their spouses, and their doctors without political interference.

Abortion bans are hurting all women due to political interference in medical decisions and procedures.

On all this we are in full agreement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Republicans keep losing on this issue because they are sending mixed messages. For instance, they argue that all abortion is murder and that life begins at the instant of conception, but are okay with abortion bans that start at 15 weeks. (If life begins at conception, then abortion is just as wrong at 13 weeks as it is at 16 weeks.) Or that only abortion doctors, and not women who receive abortions, should be punished for having an abortion. (If a husband hires a hit man to murder his wife, do we say that only the hit man should be arrested and charged with a crime?) Or that abortion is okay in cases of rape and incest. (Why should method of conception matter if the baby is innocent?) Republicans are failing miserably on the messaging because people can clearly recognize that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.

Vivek Ramaswamy was on CNN last night trying to make the same argument with a straight face: "We are losing on abortion because our messaging is terrible, we don't do a good job of selling this to the voters, blah blah blah...."

Kaitlin Collins was dumbstruck by his argument and was like "Maybe - after 7 straight losses - the Republicans' policy on abortion is just out-of-step with voters?" To which Ramadwamy replied "No, we have a messaging problem."

These people are in such a bubble of group-think. They are going to keep trying to force anti-abortion measures on people at the local level. The Ohio GOP elites are in full revolt against the voters of the state.

I think Ramaswamy is saying that it’s hard to explain why abortion is okay at 13 weeks, even though life begins at conception. That’s a tough needle to thread!

They should simply state their aims baldly: women aren’t people to Republicans and the party wants to bring women back under the control of men, either a father or a husband. Women should have no rights to bodily autonomy and we aim to cause maximum pain to women, damn the consequences. Because that’s really their message.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But it is a messaging problem, LOL.

I want to reply to your message every day just so this keeps getting bumped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you can't beat em, cheat em: GOP plans ways to undermine referendums on abortion.

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2023/11/after-voters-back-abortion-and-pot-gop-leaders-signal-plans-to-undermine-referendums.html

This only boosts Sharrod Brown's chances of winning his reelection. I can't wait to see those ads.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Just find these quotes for every top Republican candidate and run them for the next year. Have them scurrying back to their dark places trying to walk back the comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well. You can always count on Trump to forget to add nuance to the talking points. This is an old clip though, right? Can’t imagine how he’d answer now given his mental deterioration.