SF with HOA Fees?
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Anonymous
| Went to an open house for a SFH in NOVA and I saw there were quarterly HOA dues but no amenities like a clubhouse or anything. I assume builders cheap out and can avoid paying impact/development fees by doing this but I was wondering if anyone knew more about how this happens and common it is around here. |
Anonymous
| Not too common. There is a group of single family houses in Arlington, off Glebe Road, which have an HOA. Usually done because the individual lots are not large enough to meet zoning requirements and some "common area" is used to boost the land needed to build the houses. |
Anonymous
Nope. Developers can't pass impact fees along thru HOA fees because the two aren't related - totally different pockets and managers. Impact fees are paid upon development of the property and added into the house pricing in the end. Developers are required by the county to create HOA's and usually the county can say, for example, that they won't accept the roads, therefore, snow plowing is the responsibility of the association. The quarterly HOA fees likely pay for some common areas that aren't part of anyone's lots, little corners and such that are between property lines. The listing will say what the HOA fee covers, but trust me, 10 years working for developers, doing their budgets, then managing homeowner associations and doing their budgets too, what you surmised isn't how it works. The two have nothing to do with each other. |
Anonymous
| Are there any culdesacs? The circle with grass is a common area that needs to be mowed and mulched. Is there community trash pick up? |
Anonymous
| I don't live in one of these communities, so I'm not an expert. But we looked at houses in Burke Centre that were part of an HOA. I know one thing the HOA fees covered was trash removal. |
Anonymous
| Yeah, we have an hoa. No clubhouse, but there are landscaped common areas, the road is private so we pay for upkeep, and trash collection/snow removal. Runs about $1000 a year. |
Anonymous
| If the streets are private, HOA fees also cover things like private street lights electric fees & maintenance, snow removal, street maintenance, common area landscaping and possibly trash removal. |
Anonymous
| I lived in a HOA with limited amenities. They pay for shared common ground, lawn mowing, snow plow, lighting, parking lot, money to replace lights, parking lot, sidewalks. Etc. Common Ground costs money. |
Anonymous
Yes, it is common in Fairfax County. It is not just the builders, but it is the Builders + County Government. Both are in cahoots, and they pass on the on-going maintenance costs to the home owners for the road paving, street lights and grass mowing, in-perpetuity (forever). They put that in the HOA Bylaws. |
Anonymous
OP here, thank you, very helpful. Combining other people's answers here but I get it that the money is used for trash, snow plowing, lighting, etc. but I'm still unclear how the county can just not accept new roads and say this road here is private and you have to pay for it? I'm just used to plowing, providing street lighting and road repairs just being things the city did and you paid for it through property taxes (although I have seen a variety of approaches to trash from it being covered by the city, people paying for stickers for garbage cans, paying for removal service and people having to take it to the dump). It just doesn't make sense that you pay the same rate of city tax as everyone else but your particular road isn't covered whereas most of the other ones are. |
Anonymous
|
20:46 again.
Good question. What the PP alluded to above at 8:30 is sort of correct. Like I said, I've been doing this a long time and I've seen crap change over the years. I grew up in a town where yes, the town paved and snowplowed the damn roads! Then I moved to the south, then here to subdivision hell. Then I worked for several huge builders who built giant subdivisions. This is a vicious cycle but here's the skinny: Developer buys tract of land and wants to put 100 houses. Idiots at county who fell out of 7th grade and got these jobs called "Reviewers" decide, arbitrarily, "hey, we don't feel like taking on more roads for you rich developers, so you can't have any houses approved for development unless you structure your documents such that the roads are private. Oh, and by the way, while you're at it, the school down the street that has nothing to do with you? They need a new playground. that's on you too." F*cking counties. They're the real thieves. My husband is still in the business and you would not believe the stories he comes home with, it's just unreal. You want to tear your hair out. But everyone thinks the developers are the enemy. If you sat in these meetings you would see just how evil some of these county people are. And to your comment about paying the same rate of city tax and getting less services: YES! This is exactly right. That's how they do it, and my parents (Real Estate people also) would tell you this is why county and state governments in many places are corrupt - because wtf are they doing with that money??? Why do these people make a full salary and they barely work, and I mean barely. Some of these Mont Co/PG county reviewers are so beyond incompetent it is totally confusing how they even have jobs. One set a meeting to move a power pole for my husband's community, SEVEN TIMES. Her inability to coordinate the people out there to get the line moved cost him $90,000. With no recourse. There goes the profit. And the HOA dues are managed by a management company. The developer can't just steal money out of there to recover it, and even if so, there isn't $90K hanging out in a single family subdivision HOA account. |
Anonymous
| So when you buy that house some portion of the purchase price includes the initial capital investment in the road? If you're dealing with a SFH it seems like there wouldn't be very many houses (relatively speaking) among which to allocate the cost of the road as compared to say a townhouse community. Seems like in that situation the house would be somewhat overpriced relative to non-HOA SFHs. |
Anonymous
I lived in Burke Centre growing up. The HOA fee there pays for a ton of stuff you ordinarily dont think of: Not only the community ammenities like the pools/tennis courts and things like trash removal but the signs that say "Burke Centre", the pretty landscaping in the middle of Burke Centre Parkway and other roads, the lawnmowing done on the sides of the roads so that it doesnt look overgrown and crappy, the tree trimmers who come and make sure the trees arent overgrown, the nice sidewalks and such, the ample lighting through the community, etc. Basically everything that creates the "ambiance" that makes Burke a desirable place to live for its residents. |
Anonymous
It's tough to piece meal costs like that. You're looking at it on an individual lot basis and the reality is that Developers work in overall numbers but it's very complicated as it goes along. The are constantly re-spreading costs across lots as they arise. Say they do a proforma on a subdivision and figure it will be $1M to buy and $1M to develop. That development number includes all the house lots and they spread the cost equally across all, let's say, 10 lots. You're looking at $200,000 per lot for Acquisition and Development. Then the builder says, "I can put houses here for $300K each." Development costs $200K and building costs $300K per lot so they are all-in at $500K, and build a profit on top of that and that's where the house prices start. Someone has to pay for the road - it's not free. It's part of a development cost. And margins are a lot tighter than the example I just outlined, you can't really develop and build close to downtown for anywhere near those prices, I was just using round numbers. I wouldn't get wrapped up in the development costs of a subdivision of TH's vs SFH's - you'll make yourself nuts thinking "how much road am I paying for?" There's a ton of stuff you pay for that is all wrapped into the cost of a new home that you never even realize. The development budgets I crunched for builders had dozens and dozens of line items. And there are a ton of costs that the county just "oops" loads onto your plate and holds you hostage for until you agree to do them. It's bullshit. But it's the price you pay for a new house. Developers aren't making money like people think. Maybe 20% profit, split between principals and a ton of risk. A ton. If you want to live in a non-HOA neighborhood, then you still are paying just in another fashion. If they have to upgrade utilities and dig up the road in front of your house, they do pass that cost on to you. They always find a way to get it out of the homeowner. I love this crap so I could go on forever, but if you have more questions fire away. |