Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

I think ultimately St A's gained popularity because of Prince William. But he's considered not only a bit of an academic dunce but also an ass, by most Brits (myself included) so that's not really attractive to us.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is most entertaining - lots of British folk suggesting St Andrews is a decent school but not that great although very effective at marketing to gullible Americans……and lots of Americans telling the Brits that it’s a great school. A triumph for marketing I say!

You are absolutely right!

Eh, I do recognize it's a lot of British folk suggesting St Andrews was nothing special in their time (I'm guessing roughly 1990) and every single major UK rankings of today are bullshit, but only where St Andrews comes to mind. Which .. IDK. Sounds like they left the UK a long time ago?

UChicago had a 40% admissions rate when I last lived in Chicago. Is this meaningful to today?

I have 2 nieces and a nephew recently gone through the UK University admissions process. Their perspective is That St Andrews is for rich, dim Americans.

Why is that their perspective? I'm not picking a fight here, just curious. How did they come to that conclusion during the admissions process?

They all wanted to like St Andrew’s and all visited. The uniform perception was the university had sold out…to rich Americans

+1 the "I want to be seen as cultured and sophisticated so I jetted off to Europe" variety of Americans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think ultimately St A's gained popularity because of Prince William. But he's considered not only a bit of an academic dunce but also an ass, by most Brits (myself included) so that's not really attractive to us.

Speak for yourself. Hardly anyone here considers him an ass. At most, people are indifferent. Even if you are pro republic, he and his wife seem like perfectly nice people with a lovely family.

Harry, on the other hand....what a massive collapse in popularity.

St. A is a good university. Not Oxbridge, but popular enough with some good departments and courses. It was long popular with private schools but the majority are from state schools.

[Anonymous]

St Andrews must be doing something right - Professor Dame Sally Mapstone FRSE, Principal and Vice-Chancellor of University of St Andrews, has been elected as the next President of Universities UK (UUK).

The role runs for two academic years from 1 August 2023 and is elected through a ballot of UUK’s 140 members.

She was educated at Oxford and held leadership positions at Oxford before moving to St Andrews.

[Anonymous]

I golf like crazy so I've only been to St Andrews on vacation and for golf reasons, not college reasons, but it's very hard to go to St Andrews and NOT think, man, what a place to go to college! It's really beautiful, grey and gloomy in the winter, I'm sure, although not as cold as NYC where I live.

People on this site have a way of speaking definitively on issues with no basis (the idea that William is considered an ass by brits is a great example).

It's a well ranked college that costs in the 50k and not the 90k neighborhood in a very special town by the sea. Where breaks can be spent in Florence instead of Florida. I have no kid in this race, but you people are crazy not to see the appeal.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No one has ever chosen St Andrews over Oxford or Cambridge. Not even once. I’m sure it wins the occasional head-to-head with places like Edinburg or Durham, but I doubt it wins more than a quarter of those. It’s a fine school, but just try dropping “Stoxbridge” in a British pub or faculty lounge—you’ll get either a blank stare or beer/tea sorted out the nose.

Brit here. I think actually no one would choose it over Edinburgh or Durham. For decades it was the place to go if you didn't get into those universities and they were the places to go to if you didn't get into OX or Cambs.

I know of cases where Scottish people picked StA over both Edinburgh and Glasgow and Durham to study a science (not a “social science”). Clearly our samples differ.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of a current St Andrews student here. I think it's a fantastic school, and it's been ranked higher than Edinburgh, LSE, and Imperial for the past 4 years. You can dismiss it all you want, but in every UK ranking it is in the top 3. Now, do I think it's a cut-price Ivy? Of course not. I do, however, think it's miles better than many of the top 50 US schools. It's a different academic model, and it's not a research university, so it's hard to compare apples to apples. But I have an another student at a top 50 US university and I can tell you that the academic rigor at St Andrews is much higher than at the US school. If you don't have first-hand experience with a student at St Andrews or if you are basing your opinions on some vague impression from 25 years ago, I would take your comments with a shovelful of salt. But please, haters, keep on hating. I'd rather keep St Andrews a secret for a bit longer.

The academic rigor of any top 20 British university is considerably greater than most American universities, I will give you that.

NP well if you give her that, then why slag St Andrews at all?

I wasn’t slagging it off at all, it’s a good school. It is not a great school though, more like bottom end of the Uk top 10…which is comparable to a mid tier school over here. St Andrews is the equivalent of a William and Mary or a Lehigh. It cleverly markets itself to Americans as this amazing university but, honestly, it is very few British students first choice - it is incredibly small and relatively remote. Edinburgh, Bristol, Durham, York, Imperial College, LSE - all more appealing to British students. And as for Oxbridge? So far in the distance it’s not even visible.

+1. The strange thing is that Americans don’t understand the prestige of Imperial College. It’s much more highly sought after than St Andrews but never mentioned here

Imperial is highly ranked here https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings at number 6 just 2 spots below St Andrews.

Or is this another poor ranking guide?

Imperial is the MIT of the UK. St Andrews is the Elon. You do the math.

I've lived in the UK. THIS. Facts. Imperial is impessive. St. Andrews is not. At all.

+1 I'm British. I got my undergrad and 2 post-grad degrees in the UK. I think the US populace is more obsessed with St. Andrews than anyone in the whole of the UK. It's almost amusing. But I do understand it has "risen" in the ranks officially and good for them.

💯

St.A doesn’t place well in the city as even Durham.

I’m not exactly sure what and where st.a kids do

They aren’t really overflowing in whitehall either

Saying StA doesn’t place well in The City speaks only to a quite narrow set of degrees, assuming the claim is true. Whitehall has been incestuously Oxbridge for a couple of centuries now, with people hiring either their friends or new grads from their specific college, so again not really a very meaningful observation.

StA graduates who I encounter all work in the sciences. We are quite happy when we can hire one, as they consistently are well educated and smart. [caveat: “sciences” in this post excludes so-called social sciences, but includes Physics, CS, and so forth]. And we also see good candidates with an initial degree from StA and a post-graduate degree from another well-known universities.

As with any university, different academic schools/departments will be higher or lower quality. One needs to consider which degree one wants when selecting any college or university, including when considering StA.

[Anonymous]

Many Americans only look at Scottish universities like St Andrews and not at English universities. There is a significant difference between the two systems and the Scottish system is more similar to the US one.

Undergrad degrees at Scottish universities are 4 rather than 3 years and are broader and more flexible. The standard English undergrad degree lasts 3 years and you have to apply into a very specific course and are confined to subjects within that course. For example, if you are interested in history, you apply to do a degree in history. For school leavers who know what they want to study, English universities offer the opportunity to focus on that immediately and saves you at least a year of undergraduate study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews must be doing something right - Professor Dame Sally Mapstone FRSE, Principal and Vice-Chancellor of University of St Andrews, has been elected as the next President of Universities UK (UUK).

The role runs for two academic years from 1 August 2023 and is elected through a ballot of UUK’s 140 members.

She was educated at Oxford and held leadership positions at Oxford before moving to St Andrews.

Good heavens. Educate yourself before you post. She's leaving poorly paid academia to become an well-paid issues LOBBYIST/advocacy group. That's what the UUK is. There is no "honor" involved. UKK has even been called into question by Conservative and UKIP Members of the European Parliament, who said that such political activity undertaken by a registered charity which is largely state-funded is wrong. The group was also called into question due to its role in negotiations over changes to the USS pension scheme.

[Anonymous]

UUK - https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/about-us/our-members -appears to be an advocacy group for UK universities. Professor Mapstone is not leaving St Andrews but is taking on the President’s role for 2 years after being elected by her peers from 140 academic institutions in the UK.

The organization seeks a global reach and did not want Brexit to stand in the way with collaboration with EU universities. Wikapedia doesn’t always provide the best information.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No one has ever chosen St Andrews over Oxford or Cambridge. Not even once. I’m sure it wins the occasional head-to-head with places like Edinburg or Durham, but I doubt it wins more than a quarter of those. It’s a fine school, but just try dropping “Stoxbridge” in a British pub or faculty lounge—you’ll get either a blank stare or beer/tea sorted out the nose.

Brit here. I think actually no one would choose it over Edinburgh or Durham. For decades it was the place to go if you didn't get into those universities and they were the places to go to if you didn't get into OX or Cambs.

I know of cases where Scottish people picked StA over both Edinburgh and Glasgow and Durham to study a science (not a “social science”). Clearly our samples differ.

Yeah, Scottish people do not count in this scenario. They have a) bias and b) there's hardly any of them, something like 3 million versus the 50 million in the rest of the UK

[Anonymous]

if you go on /6thform or thestudentroom, you can read posts by hundreds of British students who pick SA over other schools save Oxford or Cambridge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if you go on /6thform or thestudentroom, you can read posts by hundreds of British students who pick SA over other schools save Oxford or Cambridge.

My DD is an undergraduate student at a UK uni (not St Andrews). When I asked her about the opinion of the English re: St Andrews she noted that what she had heard was that they weren't too keen to spend four years on a degree that would only take three years to earn in England. I understand that Scotland subsidizes the fourth year for English students but it is still an additional year of study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UUK - https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/about-us/our-members -appears to be an advocacy group for UK universities. Professor Mapstone is not leaving St Andrews but is taking on the President’s role for 2 years after being elected by her peers from 140 academic institutions in the UK.

The organization seeks a global reach and did not want Brexit to stand in the way with collaboration with EU universities. Wikapedia doesn’t always provide the best information.

It’s a lobbying group. Not an honorific. And it’s gotten itself into trouble for violating its tax status.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:if you go on /6thform or thestudentroom, you can read posts by hundreds of British students who pick SA over other schools save Oxford or Cambridge.

My DD is an undergraduate student at a UK uni (not St Andrews). When I asked her about the opinion of the English re: St Andrews she noted that what she had heard was that they weren't too keen to spend four years on a degree that would only take three years to earn in England. I understand that Scotland subsidizes the fourth year for English students but it is still an additional year of study.

Well you and your DD are mis-informed. When you graduate from a Scottish university you do so with an MA or an MSc because of that extra year, it's not 3 years spread across 4, it is a further year of learning, hence the higher degree you leave with.