Maryland Recovery Plan for Education has been posted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK but another way we're not Denmark is that we dont have much of a safety net for parents who have to work during a year long pandemic - not for income, housing, health insurance, or childcare help. So distance learning for a year with full time adult supervision at home is not something most families have the flexibility or resources to provide. It's not that we don't WANT to, it's that working from home for a year and/or affording a nanny is just not the default situation for people. So what IS realistic?

If you have two working parents then you’re going to need to pay for childcare. If you have to downsize then you have to downsize. Everyone is going to have to make sacrifices. Businesses are also going to have to expand work from home options, and onsite daycare. A half day or every other day schedule is going to present the same challenges as not opening up at all. This has nothing to do with what anyone WANTS. This is the hand we’ve been dealt.

You're not hearing me. I'm saying WE DO NOT have a society set up for the average family to make this work AS INDIVIDUALS. That is the entore point of my saying we don't have a social support system. Saying every family will just have to have a parent home full time or pay an entire additional salary out of their net is INSANE. I agree that opening half time presents the same challenges but just saying "oh families will figure it out" is not a serious attempt to grapple with logistics.

Heres why:

1. Many, many families cannot afford full time childcare for school age kids - nor is it even available around here, in a place where there are multi year waiting lists for day cares. Do you know that a lot of parents with degrees do not make more, after tax, than it costs to employ a nanny? Because we've run those numbers.

2. Yes, i guess in SOME families one parent could drop out of the workforce, but that's a huge gamble as to whether they will ever get back in and a huge hit to financial security, not everyone can live on one income, and what about single parent homes?

3. People living in apartments can't "downsize." And people who bought small homes 5 years ago probably can't save by moving to an apartment.

4. I'd like to think businesses will adapt to help their employees at no profit, but that is not my general experience so far. It's a very optimistic hope.

If you're saying it's up to individual parents to just take their masses of extra space and money and either quit their jobs or employ household staff, you do not have a realistic idea of how others live. Parents should not be in the position of having to choose between the day to day safety of their children and their ability to hold a job to feed and shelter their children. I just would like people to admit that if we as a society insist it's parents' responsibility to give both employers and schools mutually exclusive amounts of time and energy in the absence of any social support system, we are CHOOSING to put people in an impossible position.

I keep trying to get people to recognize this. Many people argue that they HAVE to have two working parents in order to survive, but for many families, the second parent does not bring in much after taxes and other costs involved in working (commute, restaurants, work clothes, etc.) Many more families could stay home if they realized how little they actually make, and that cutting back is possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send the kids back. Done. Teachers have choice early retire or FMLA if don’t like it. Hire new young teachers who are cheaper fresh out of school or recent graduates who are low risk to replace older or teachers with existing medical conditions.

The teachers over 50 cost a fortune with pensions and medical and higher salaries. Replace them with 21-29 year warranty or healthy teachers

This is about sending kids back to school for an education, not about sending kids back to school for supervision by the cheapest warm bodies available.

No, it's actually about the latter. We can pretend it's for the sake of education, but really it's for the sake of free childcare.

(This is not my view at all--I think we need to keep the health of students and staff as the priority--but this is the view of pretty much everyone on DCUM and people I know IRL as well. They don't actually care who is teaching their kids when it comes down to it, although they sure have an opinion on their kids' teachers in normal times. But given the choice between distance learning and school being taught by unqualified warm bodies acting as babysitters, they'll pick the latter and then complain about the poor quality education their kids are getting.)

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK but another way we're not Denmark is that we dont have much of a safety net for parents who have to work during a year long pandemic - not for income, housing, health insurance, or childcare help. So distance learning for a year with full time adult supervision at home is not something most families have the flexibility or resources to provide. It's not that we don't WANT to, it's that working from home for a year and/or affording a nanny is just not the default situation for people. So what IS realistic?

If you have two working parents then you’re going to need to pay for childcare. If you have to downsize then you have to downsize. Everyone is going to have to make sacrifices. Businesses are also going to have to expand work from home options, and onsite daycare. A half day or every other day schedule is going to present the same challenges as not opening up at all. This has nothing to do with what anyone WANTS. This is the hand we’ve been dealt.

You're not hearing me. I'm saying WE DO NOT have a society set up for the average family to make this work AS INDIVIDUALS. That is the entore point of my saying we don't have a social support system. Saying every family will just have to have a parent home full time or pay an entire additional salary out of their net is INSANE. I agree that opening half time presents the same challenges but just saying "oh families will figure it out" is not a serious attempt to grapple with logistics.

Heres why:

1. Many, many families cannot afford full time childcare for school age kids - nor is it even available around here, in a place where there are multi year waiting lists for day cares. Do you know that a lot of parents with degrees do not make more, after tax, than it costs to employ a nanny? Because we've run those numbers.

2. Yes, i guess in SOME families one parent could drop out of the workforce, but that's a huge gamble as to whether they will ever get back in and a huge hit to financial security, not everyone can live on one income, and what about single parent homes?

3. People living in apartments can't "downsize." And people who bought small homes 5 years ago probably can't save by moving to an apartment.

4. I'd like to think businesses will adapt to help their employees at no profit, but that is not my general experience so far. It's a very optimistic hope.

If you're saying it's up to individual parents to just take their masses of extra space and money and either quit their jobs or employ household staff, you do not have a realistic idea of how others live. Parents should not be in the position of having to choose between the day to day safety of their children and their ability to hold a job to feed and shelter their children. I just would like people to admit that if we as a society insist it's parents' responsibility to give both employers and schools mutually exclusive amounts of time and energy in the absence of any social support system, we are CHOOSING to put people in an impossible position.

I keep trying to get people to recognize this. Many people argue that they HAVE to have two working parents in order to survive, but for many families, the second parent does not bring in much after taxes and other costs involved in working (commute, restaurants, work clothes, etc.) Many more families could stay home if they realized how little they actually make, and that cutting back is possible.

That may be true in the short term, but not long term. By both parents continuing to work, they also both continue to maintain their skills and place in the workplace. If one parent stays home, they will lose out on contributing to retirement plans, gaining seniority, and possibly other benefits like insurance. Many parents pay high daycare costs initially to so they are poised to make more in the long run, not because they need it at that moment in time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents just need to understand this in context. Teachers have spent many years underpaid and disrespected, and now fear that they will also be asked to double their workload and risk their health, in order to allow higher earning workers than themselves to get back to work. Try to imagine yourself in the same situation.

I am considering simply quitting if asked to do some of the things I’ve read in the report. Like many teachers, my husband is the main breadwinner. And we live with an elderly family member we don’t want to infect.

Higher-earning workers than themselves? Plenty of teachers at least in Moco make close to 100K, and most are married to a working spouse, giving them a very decent HHI. Where on earth do you teach that all of your parents make more than you? Private school? And who was talking about doubling a teacher’s workload?

+1
And it’s not just about parents getting back to work. It’s about, you know, bettering the lives of children and furthering their educations. Frankly, you don’t sound like much of a teacher.

She’s not much of a teacher? How would you know? You don’t sound like much of a parent and neither does anyone suggesting they fire educators and replace them with unqualified people desperate for a job. Parents want to go back to work so badly that they are willing to give up on any semblance of an education. It also shows how little concern they have for their family’s safety. Selfishness is not really a good quality in a parent.

No one suggested any of that.

[Anonymous]

So wait, are most you actually arguing that school should not be open and parents should just not work? And children just not be educated? This is the way society should go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK but another way we're not Denmark is that we dont have much of a safety net for parents who have to work during a year long pandemic - not for income, housing, health insurance, or childcare help. So distance learning for a year with full time adult supervision at home is not something most families have the flexibility or resources to provide. It's not that we don't WANT to, it's that working from home for a year and/or affording a nanny is just not the default situation for people. So what IS realistic?

If you have two working parents then you’re going to need to pay for childcare. If you have to downsize then you have to downsize. Everyone is going to have to make sacrifices. Businesses are also going to have to expand work from home options, and onsite daycare. A half day or every other day schedule is going to present the same challenges as not opening up at all. This has nothing to do with what anyone WANTS. This is the hand we’ve been dealt.

You're not hearing me. I'm saying WE DO NOT have a society set up for the average family to make this work AS INDIVIDUALS. That is the entore point of my saying we don't have a social support system. Saying every family will just have to have a parent home full time or pay an entire additional salary out of their net is INSANE. I agree that opening half time presents the same challenges but just saying "oh families will figure it out" is not a serious attempt to grapple with logistics.

Heres why:

1. Many, many families cannot afford full time childcare for school age kids - nor is it even available around here, in a place where there are multi year waiting lists for day cares. Do you know that a lot of parents with degrees do not make more, after tax, than it costs to employ a nanny? Because we've run those numbers.

2. Yes, i guess in SOME families one parent could drop out of the workforce, but that's a huge gamble as to whether they will ever get back in and a huge hit to financial security, not everyone can live on one income, and what about single parent homes?

3. People living in apartments can't "downsize." And people who bought small homes 5 years ago probably can't save by moving to an apartment.

4. I'd like to think businesses will adapt to help their employees at no profit, but that is not my general experience so far. It's a very optimistic hope.

If you're saying it's up to individual parents to just take their masses of extra space and money and either quit their jobs or employ household staff, you do not have a realistic idea of how others live. Parents should not be in the position of having to choose between the day to day safety of their children and their ability to hold a job to feed and shelter their children. I just would like people to admit that if we as a society insist it's parents' responsibility to give both employers and schools mutually exclusive amounts of time and energy in the absence of any social support system, we are CHOOSING to put people in an impossible position.

I keep trying to get people to recognize this. Many people argue that they HAVE to have two working parents in order to survive, but for many families, the second parent does not bring in much after taxes and other costs involved in working (commute, restaurants, work clothes, etc.) Many more families could stay home if they realized how little they actually make, and that cutting back is possible.

Let me guess - you don’t work.

It’s so funny because all these people are acting like they are being so pro-teacher when they say parents should just stay home. You see how disrespectful to teachers that is? Saying that parents half-heartedly having their kids log onto half an hour of Zoom a day is the same as teachers working in the classroom? And teachers are condoning this mentality?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How will they have the staff to cover lunches in classrooms and enough teachers to cover smaller classes spread out using MS space?

Teachers will have to give up their lunches.

Teachers will not give up their lunches. Sometimes that is the only time during the seven hours while we're at school that I can use the bathroom. I am not allowed to look at my cell phone (you get written up), open my laptop (even for work-we're expected to be "engaged" with the kids at all times), or leave the room for any reason (to wash hands, to fill a water bottle, to pee, etc) at school. The only time I can do these things is during my lunch period, or during a prep. Before COVID, we frequently lost our preps because of IEP meetings (in our own class or others that run over time), teacher absences (which will definitely only increase in frequency now), special events (like school-wide celebrations) and various other reasons. I am also not working all day with no break and no prep and going home to create lessons. Our pay is already abysmal for masters level professionals.

Furthermore, it's illegal for us to work all day without a break. If you work for more than 6 hours you are entitled to a minimum of 30 minutes for lucnh. I am absolutely not working all day without washing my hands even once (even before eating). I am absolutely not monitoring students when I need a break myself. I am not a robot and I deserve to do all the things you take for granted at work-call my doctor, text my husband, read the news for a few minutes, walk down the block and grab a coffee, eat lunch without having to break up a fight. We fought long and hard for our lunch break to be included in our contract, we are not giving it up now. Maybe parents can volunteer to come in and watch the kids! Each parent can come in once a month and if they can't cover the shift then they have to find another parent to do it in their absence. Parents are pushing for schools to open? Then make it feasible.

You sound charming. I’m a big teacher advocate but what exactly are you doing for your students now? If you hate teaching so much, leave it.

Working without a break has absolutely nothing to do with teaching. You are not a "big teacher advocate" if you think it's appropriate for us to give up our only break in the day. It's an extremely basic labor protection that is not specific to our profession-if you work for 6 hours, you get a 30 minute lunch break. I'm not going to be constantly fighting off kidney infections so I can babysit your children without pause. Get real. It has nothing to do with what I'm willing to "do for my students"-it would make administrators' lives easier, sure. You don't get to guilt me into saying that I'm fine being trapped in a room for seven hours without using the bathroom, checking my phone, or taking care of myself in the smallest way.

I’m not saying you should not have a break. Of course you should. But your anger seems to go way beyond that. I hope you’re nowhere near my kid.

Same here. My kids teachers are so sad abiut the year being canceled that they are trying to offer meeting kids in parking lots for distant hangouts etc. This person should just not be teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How will they have the staff to cover lunches in classrooms and enough teachers to cover smaller classes spread out using MS space?

Teachers will have to give up their lunches.

Teachers will not give up their lunches. Sometimes that is the only time during the seven hours while we're at school that I can use the bathroom. I am not allowed to look at my cell phone (you get written up), open my laptop (even for work-we're expected to be "engaged" with the kids at all times), or leave the room for any reason (to wash hands, to fill a water bottle, to pee, etc) at school. The only time I can do these things is during my lunch period, or during a prep. Before COVID, we frequently lost our preps because of IEP meetings (in our own class or others that run over time), teacher absences (which will definitely only increase in frequency now), special events (like school-wide celebrations) and various other reasons. I am also not working all day with no break and no prep and going home to create lessons. Our pay is already abysmal for masters level professionals.

Furthermore, it's illegal for us to work all day without a break. If you work for more than 6 hours you are entitled to a minimum of 30 minutes for lucnh. I am absolutely not working all day without washing my hands even once (even before eating). I am absolutely not monitoring students when I need a break myself. I am not a robot and I deserve to do all the things you take for granted at work-call my doctor, text my husband, read the news for a few minutes, walk down the block and grab a coffee, eat lunch without having to break up a fight. We fought long and hard for our lunch break to be included in our contract, we are not giving it up now. Maybe parents can volunteer to come in and watch the kids! Each parent can come in once a month and if they can't cover the shift then they have to find another parent to do it in their absence. Parents are pushing for schools to open? Then make it feasible.

You sound charming. I’m a big teacher advocate but what exactly are you doing for your students now? If you hate teaching so much, leave it.

Working without a break has absolutely nothing to do with teaching. You are not a "big teacher advocate" if you think it's appropriate for us to give up our only break in the day. It's an extremely basic labor protection that is not specific to our profession-if you work for 6 hours, you get a 30 minute lunch break. I'm not going to be constantly fighting off kidney infections so I can babysit your children without pause. Get real. It has nothing to do with what I'm willing to "do for my students"-it would make administrators' lives easier, sure. You don't get to guilt me into saying that I'm fine being trapped in a room for seven hours without using the bathroom, checking my phone, or taking care of myself in the smallest way.

I’m not saying you should not have a break. Of course you should. But your anger seems to go way beyond that. I hope you’re nowhere near my kid.

Same here. My kids teachers are so sad abiut the year being canceled that they are trying to offer meeting kids in parking lots for distant hangouts etc. This person should just not be teaching.

It’s gross that parents want teachers to be so obsessed with their children that they would do ANYTHING to come back to work. No one should be that emotionally involved in their work.
Teaching is a job. I love my job but frankly that’s bizarre and inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Same here. My kids teachers are so sad abiut the year being canceled that they are trying to offer meeting kids in parking lots for distant hangouts etc. This person should just not be teaching.

The teacher is fine. The person who said that teachers will have to give up their lunch periods to accommodate the person's plan for school next fall is a fool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How will they have the staff to cover lunches in classrooms and enough teachers to cover smaller classes spread out using MS space?

Teachers will have to give up their lunches.

Teachers will not give up their lunches. Sometimes that is the only time during the seven hours while we're at school that I can use the bathroom. I am not allowed to look at my cell phone (you get written up), open my laptop (even for work-we're expected to be "engaged" with the kids at all times), or leave the room for any reason (to wash hands, to fill a water bottle, to pee, etc) at school. The only time I can do these things is during my lunch period, or during a prep. Before COVID, we frequently lost our preps because of IEP meetings (in our own class or others that run over time), teacher absences (which will definitely only increase in frequency now), special events (like school-wide celebrations) and various other reasons. I am also not working all day with no break and no prep and going home to create lessons. Our pay is already abysmal for masters level professionals.

Furthermore, it's illegal for us to work all day without a break. If you work for more than 6 hours you are entitled to a minimum of 30 minutes for lucnh. I am absolutely not working all day without washing my hands even once (even before eating). I am absolutely not monitoring students when I need a break myself. I am not a robot and I deserve to do all the things you take for granted at work-call my doctor, text my husband, read the news for a few minutes, walk down the block and grab a coffee, eat lunch without having to break up a fight. We fought long and hard for our lunch break to be included in our contract, we are not giving it up now. Maybe parents can volunteer to come in and watch the kids! Each parent can come in once a month and if they can't cover the shift then they have to find another parent to do it in their absence. Parents are pushing for schools to open? Then make it feasible.

You sound charming. I’m a big teacher advocate but what exactly are you doing for your students now? If you hate teaching so much, leave it.

Working without a break has absolutely nothing to do with teaching. You are not a "big teacher advocate" if you think it's appropriate for us to give up our only break in the day. It's an extremely basic labor protection that is not specific to our profession-if you work for 6 hours, you get a 30 minute lunch break. I'm not going to be constantly fighting off kidney infections so I can babysit your children without pause. Get real. It has nothing to do with what I'm willing to "do for my students"-it would make administrators' lives easier, sure. You don't get to guilt me into saying that I'm fine being trapped in a room for seven hours without using the bathroom, checking my phone, or taking care of myself in the smallest way.

I’m not saying you should not have a break. Of course you should. But your anger seems to go way beyond that. I hope you’re nowhere near my kid.

Same here. My kids teachers are so sad abiut the year being canceled that they are trying to offer meeting kids in parking lots for distant hangouts etc. This person should just not be teaching.

It’s gross that parents want teachers to be so obsessed with their children that they would do ANYTHING to come back to work. No one should be that emotionally involved in their work.
Teaching is a job. I love my job but frankly that’s bizarre and inappropriate.

What’s inappropriate? These are kindergartners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Same here. My kids teachers are so sad abiut the year being canceled that they are trying to offer meeting kids in parking lots for distant hangouts etc. This person should just not be teaching.

The teacher is fine. The person who said that teachers will have to give up their lunch periods to accommodate the person's plan for school next fall is a fool.

That was literally one person. No one else has agreed.

[Anonymous]

As one of the posters, I think there are two categories of concerns from the teachers:

1) that we will go back 100% as normal, with risks to our health or those of our vulnerable family members
2) that we will go back in such a way that we work many more hours than before

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK but another way we're not Denmark is that we dont have much of a safety net for parents who have to work during a year long pandemic - not for income, housing, health insurance, or childcare help. So distance learning for a year with full time adult supervision at home is not something most families have the flexibility or resources to provide. It's not that we don't WANT to, it's that working from home for a year and/or affording a nanny is just not the default situation for people. So what IS realistic?

If you have two working parents then you’re going to need to pay for childcare. If you have to downsize then you have to downsize. Everyone is going to have to make sacrifices. Businesses are also going to have to expand work from home options, and onsite daycare. A half day or every other day schedule is going to present the same challenges as not opening up at all. This has nothing to do with what anyone WANTS. This is the hand we’ve been dealt.

You're not hearing me. I'm saying WE DO NOT have a society set up for the average family to make this work AS INDIVIDUALS. That is the entore point of my saying we don't have a social support system. Saying every family will just have to have a parent home full time or pay an entire additional salary out of their net is INSANE. I agree that opening half time presents the same challenges but just saying "oh families will figure it out" is not a serious attempt to grapple with logistics.

Heres why:

1. Many, many families cannot afford full time childcare for school age kids - nor is it even available around here, in a place where there are multi year waiting lists for day cares. Do you know that a lot of parents with degrees do not make more, after tax, than it costs to employ a nanny? Because we've run those numbers.

2. Yes, i guess in SOME families one parent could drop out of the workforce, but that's a huge gamble as to whether they will ever get back in and a huge hit to financial security, not everyone can live on one income, and what about single parent homes?

3. People living in apartments can't "downsize." And people who bought small homes 5 years ago probably can't save by moving to an apartment.

4. I'd like to think businesses will adapt to help their employees at no profit, but that is not my general experience so far. It's a very optimistic hope.

If you're saying it's up to individual parents to just take their masses of extra space and money and either quit their jobs or employ household staff, you do not have a realistic idea of how others live. Parents should not be in the position of having to choose between the day to day safety of their children and their ability to hold a job to feed and shelter their children. I just would like people to admit that if we as a society insist it's parents' responsibility to give both employers and schools mutually exclusive amounts of time and energy in the absence of any social support system, we are CHOOSING to put people in an impossible position.

I keep trying to get people to recognize this. Many people argue that they HAVE to have two working parents in order to survive, but for many families, the second parent does not bring in much after taxes and other costs involved in working (commute, restaurants, work clothes, etc.) Many more families could stay home if they realized how little they actually make, and that cutting back is possible.

Uh, I'm the PP you're responding to, and I'm not sure how advising people to cut back helps when we're talking about people who already know they can't afford nannies and don't have them. Commuting costs, work clothes, and restaurants - do you really think anyone is spending a salary on that? Again, "cut back on restaurant spending so you can quit your job and homeschool your kids" is not a serious attempt to grapple with the scale of the issue here.

Agree with the PPs saying the US has given up. It's so depressing. This conversation is depressing. Schools can't be the only institution actually trying to solve public health, the rest of society will buckle under the weight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents just need to understand this in context. Teachers have spent many years underpaid and disrespected, and now fear that they will also be asked to double their workload and risk their health, in order to allow higher earning workers than themselves to get back to work. Try to imagine yourself in the same situation.

I am considering simply quitting if asked to do some of the things I’ve read in the report. Like many teachers, my husband is the main breadwinner. And we live with an elderly family member we don’t want to infect.

I am a teacher and work with 100% of kids who are working class or poor. I think schools need to go back in session 100% of the day, every day in order to support working class families not higher earners. The high earners have no difficulty working from home. I have students whose parents are grocery store workers. If a cashier can go to work everyday then it is only fair teachers go back. The are underpaid and disrespected every day yet still show up to work.
Selfishly it is really easy for me to stay home with my own kids but working class families are really gong to suffe long term as soon as the extra $600 in unemployment goes away, which I think may be July.

Finally!! Thank you teacher. I love you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents just need to understand this in context. Teachers have spent many years underpaid and disrespected, and now fear that they will also be asked to double their workload and risk their health, in order to allow higher earning workers than themselves to get back to work. Try to imagine yourself in the same situation.

I am considering simply quitting if asked to do some of the things I’ve read in the report. Like many teachers, my husband is the main breadwinner. And we live with an elderly family member we don’t want to infect.

I am a teacher and work with 100% of kids who are working class or poor. I think schools need to go back in session 100% of the day, every day in order to support working class families not higher earners. The high earners have no difficulty working from home. I have students whose parents are grocery store workers. If a cashier can go to work everyday then it is only fair teachers go back. The are underpaid and disrespected every day yet still show up to work.
Selfishly it is really easy for me to stay home with my own kids but working class families are really gong to suffe long term as soon as the extra $600 in unemployment goes away, which I think may be July.

Finally!! Thank you teacher. I love you!

+1
Someone I’d be proud to have teach my kids.