Time for a mutiny yet? MCPS = crummy math, no grammar, poor writing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because whether kids perform well on It's Academic is mostly a reflection of inherent ability that has little to do with the quality of education they are receiving. You could hand me the WISC-V scores of a bunch of 5 year olds and I could tell you which ones will be the best students in 10 years. Whether they go to MCPS or private won't fundamentally change any of that.

I know kids who have been threatened with expulsion from MCPS for consistently sleeping in class, yet they get straight As because they can just show up and ace every exam without being awake for a single second of instruction. Their performance isn't a reflection of the quality of MCPS, it's a reflection of their own abilities.

If you have data that shows that kids in the 50th percentile of MCPS beat private school kids in the 50th percentile of their class, that would be more interesting data about the two environments than whether the top kids in a 50,000 population happen to outperform the top kids in a smaller population.

Um.

You're the one who says that private school education -- at any private school, apparently -- is better than an MCPS education. You go find the data.

I never said that. You're mixing me up with a different poster.

[Anonymous]

My two kids have been in MCPS from K-8th. (not old enough for high school yet).

I attended a very rigorous, elite private school for my entire K-12 education.

This is how I would compare the education my kids are receiving:

- Teacher quality. Honestly, not a great deal of difference. On the whole, my kids have had excellent teachers in MCPS and a few duds. My school was the same.

- Rigor of the bread& butter curriculum. Math is quite rigorous in MCPS (my kids are on the advanced track). This compares favorably with the school I went to. I notice differences in other subjects, particularly English/Writing. MCPS seems to downplay the importance of proper grammar, spelling, and written expression. There seems to be gradual improving emphasis as you move up the grade levels but this really needs improvement. There is a serious lack of challenge. In general, science has been quite strong in MCPS, compares favorably. Social studies/history OK as well. Foreign language in MCPS is very weak, and starts at a much later age than my private school.

- Rigor of the arts curriculum. Instrumental music instruction in MCPS has been excellent (better than my private school). But the fact that by middle school students have to choose between art, chorus, and orchestra/band is truly lame. My private school (and I suspect most elites) provide more options.

- Class size. Huge difference. MCPS classes can be huge. Whether your child can thrive in this environment really comes down to maturity and personality.

- Facilities. Huge difference again. MCPS facilities are invariably overcrowded and just adequate (barely). There really is no comparison to private school facilities.

- Socio-economic atmosphere. Huge difference. I can't speak for the privates of today in DC, but at my private, where 1/3 of the class was on scholarship (which is what it was called then) and that 1/3 provided all of the racial/ethnic diversity, despite that "diversity" the atmosphere was very much a "1%"/conformist/elitist one - very divorced from real world/reality. It was also hyper competitive/cutthroat. All in all, not good.

When I started my kids in public school, it was both because of cost and primarily because I wanted them to be in a more "real" socio-economic atmosphere. It's worked out well. I was always prepared to pull my kids and put them in private if public education wasn't working for them, but that hasn't happened. Would they be more challenged in private? Probably. But would it be worth the cost in terms of both funds and atmosphere? I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Fair enough. So after your prioritize your job and basic needs like shelter, food, security and medicine. What other thing are you doing for your kids education?

Let me pose the same question in another way.

Even the poorest of Asian students are doing well inspite of the same priorties many of us have (job, basic needs, financial security) - http://www.ajc.com/news/local-education/why-asian-students-well-parents-are-the-primary-educators/54Dqdw1fhAMEn5xdsBN5SM/ , so how are you teaching your children?

Just wanting the best for your children is not enough. You have to be investing your time in their education. I speak this as a parent of a high achieving MCPS student.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/04/asian-students-carry-high-expectations-for-success/2615483/

Can we stop with the model minority myth, please? And especially can we stop using the model minority myth as a club to beat other minorities over the head with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. We can afford private schools and we looked into it extensively. Unfortunately, they are not the best place for highly gifted children. MCPS magnet programs are what best suited our children and they were able to go there. However, they were prepared to go to the magnet programs, by the education they got in MCPS ES. Now they are in MCPS magnet HS.

We have revisited private schools each and every time time we were apprehensive about if they would be accepted or not into the program. In other words, we looked at private schools when it came time to apply to MS and HS magnets. Each time, the private schools were far inferior in terms of rigor, EC activities and peer group. And I have two kids in magnet HS now.

Another thing I noticed that private schools had more kids who had learning or behavior issues who are in the regular classes. I did not want disruptions in the classroom regardless of if the parent of the disruptive child was donating megabucks. YMMV.

For now, MCPS is better than what is being offered by any school in this region. I do admit that it is not high praise for the school system in US as a whole.

You are completely full of shit saying that MCPS ES prepared your child for a magnet. They don't offer anything for gifted kids until 4th grade. Your child being highly gifted has zero to do with MCPS and you know it. I am sure they were reading novels at age 3 and you had them learning 7,000 other things before K. So please stop the nonsense that MCPS can actually teach kids without parents input. MCPS is 90% what is home and 10% school. A teacher on here not long ago admitted kids are taught directly about 35-45min the entire school day in public school.

If MCPS actually did what they were supposed to do, there would be no achievement gap. They get by on a heavily involved parents in the middle and upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading through these comments, you'd think MCPS was a hellhole. I can't possibly imagine it's as bad as you're all making it out to be.

Our kid will be starting K in 2022 in MCPS. Am I to assume she's screwed?

Doomed, PP. D-O-O-M-E-D doomed!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!1

Or, alternatively, MCPS isn't perfect, but overall lots of people are satisfied and therefore aren't complaining on DCUM.

My kid is a senior..despite some of my concerns with MCPS, he somehow managed to get good SAT and AP scores (national standards). While he is not a star student (especially by DCUM standards), we are happy with his college acceptances and surprised by merit aid. He never went to a magnet and never used a tutor outside of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. We can afford private schools and we looked into it extensively. Unfortunately, they are not the best place for highly gifted children. MCPS magnet programs are what best suited our children and they were able to go there. However, they were prepared to go to the magnet programs, by the education they got in MCPS ES. Now they are in MCPS magnet HS.

We have revisited private schools each and every time time we were apprehensive about if they would be accepted or not into the program. In other words, we looked at private schools when it came time to apply to MS and HS magnets. Each time, the private schools were far inferior in terms of rigor, EC activities and peer group. And I have two kids in magnet HS now.

Another thing I noticed that private schools had more kids who had learning or behavior issues who are in the regular classes. I did not want disruptions in the classroom regardless of if the parent of the disruptive child was donating megabucks. YMMV.

For now, MCPS is better than what is being offered by any school in this region. I do admit that it is not high praise for the school system in US as a whole.

You are completely full of shit saying that MCPS ES prepared your child for a magnet. They don't offer anything for gifted kids until 4th grade. Your child being highly gifted has zero to do with MCPS and you know it. I am sure they were reading novels at age 3 and you had them learning 7,000 other things before K. So please stop the nonsense that MCPS can actually teach kids without parents input. MCPS is 90% what is home and 10% school. A teacher on here not long ago admitted kids are taught directly about 35-45min the entire school day in public school.

If MCPS actually did what they were supposed to do, there would be no achievement gap. They get by on a heavily involved parents in the middle and upper middle class.

What urban area has over come the achievement gap? Please don't blame it on MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Your response doesn't make any sense. Of course the top students in a 50,000 student pool will beat private school kids. That doesn't tell you anything about the quality of education in MCPS versus privates.

Why doesn't it? If the MCPS students, who are receiving an MCPS education, are beating the [Insert Name of Private School Here] students, who are receiving a [Insert Name of Private School Here] education?

If you think that you're getting your money's worth from your checks to your private school, that's great. Be happy, and please stop telling me that my kids in MCPS are getting a crummy education. I don't think they are, and I know more about my kids' education than you do.

The public school kids care about this, the private schools don’t seem to. Not my DD’s private school anyway. Plus in a smaller population it’s hard to find three kids that are going to care about an antiquated tv quiz bowl. It’s nice if some kids want to do it - I hope that Giant food keeps sponsoring it for them - but it’s a little silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Your response doesn't make any sense. Of course the top students in a 50,000 student pool will beat private school kids. That doesn't tell you anything about the quality of education in MCPS versus privates.

Why doesn't it? If the MCPS students, who are receiving an MCPS education, are beating the [Insert Name of Private School Here] students, who are receiving a [Insert Name of Private School Here] education?

If you think that you're getting your money's worth from your checks to your private school, that's great. Be happy, and please stop telling me that my kids in MCPS are getting a crummy education. I don't think they are, and I know more about my kids' education than you do.

The public school kids care about this, the private schools don’t seem to. Not my DD’s private school anyway. Plus in a smaller population it’s hard to find three kids that are going to care about an antiquated tv quiz bowl. It’s nice if some kids want to do it - I hope that Giant food keeps sponsoring it for them - but it’s a little silly.

Hooray! They don't care! They're getting a better education! They're above all that! They're the best! Hooray! Oh, how I wish that my kids could be as fortunate and well-educated as yours!

There, now can you please stop running other people down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Fair enough. So after your prioritize your job and basic needs like shelter, food, security and medicine. What other thing are you doing for your kids education?

Let me pose the same question in another way.

Even the poorest of Asian students are doing well inspite of the same priorties many of us have (job, basic needs, financial security) - http://www.ajc.com/news/local-education/why-asian-students-well-parents-are-the-primary-educators/54Dqdw1fhAMEn5xdsBN5SM/ , so how are you teaching your children?

Just wanting the best for your children is not enough. You have to be investing your time in their education. I speak this as a parent of a high achieving MCPS student.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/04/asian-students-carry-high-expectations-for-success/2615483/

Can we stop with the model minority myth, please? And especially can we stop using the model minority myth as a club to beat other minorities over the head with?

Not the PP but stats don't lie which means there is no myth. It is the truth. You can't teach poor 3rd world immigrants Algebra. Why? Because their parents haven't learned past a 3rd grade math themselves, can't speak English. So that is 100% on the schools to actually teach these kids. And guess what? They can't. Even with all the funding in the world, even with ESOL, even with learning specialists, etc... They gap is not closing. Why is that?

Poor Asian immigrants take education seriously and will suffer at the bottom to get their kids the highest education. They teach work ethic and study habits. The parents learn English quicker, go to the library and immerse themselves in whatever they need to, to help their kids.

Go to a library in MCPS on the weekend. 80% of the families in there are Asian. They spend hours in there. My daughter volunteered in one last summer. They set up shop reading and learning. They go outside and have a picnic and come back in again.

It has nothing to do with SES and everything to do with priorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but stats don't lie which means there is no myth. It is the truth. You can't teach poor 3rd world immigrants Algebra. Why? Because their parents haven't learned past a 3rd grade math themselves, can't speak English. So that is 100% on the schools to actually teach these kids. And guess what? They can't. Even with all the funding in the world, even with ESOL, even with learning specialists, etc... They gap is not closing. Why is that?

Poor Asian immigrants take education seriously and will suffer at the bottom to get their kids the highest education. They teach work ethic and study habits. The parents learn English quicker, go to the library and immerse themselves in whatever they need to, to help their kids.

Go to a library in MCPS on the weekend. 80% of the families in there are Asian. They spend hours in there. My daughter volunteered in one last summer. They set up shop reading and learning. They go outside and have a picnic and come back in again.

It has nothing to do with SES and everything to do with priorities.

Why do people feel a need to build themselves up by tearing other people down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Your response doesn't make any sense. Of course the top students in a 50,000 student pool will beat private school kids. That doesn't tell you anything about the quality of education in MCPS versus privates.

Why doesn't it? If the MCPS students, who are receiving an MCPS education, are beating the [Insert Name of Private School Here] students, who are receiving a [Insert Name of Private School Here] education?

If you think that you're getting your money's worth from your checks to your private school, that's great. Be happy, and please stop telling me that my kids in MCPS are getting a crummy education. I don't think they are, and I know more about my kids' education than you do.

The public school kids care about this, the private schools don’t seem to. Not my DD’s private school anyway. Plus in a smaller population it’s hard to find three kids that are going to care about an antiquated tv quiz bowl. It’s nice if some kids want to do it - I hope that Giant food keeps sponsoring it for them - but it’s a little silly.

Wow, you're so sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but stats don't lie which means there is no myth. It is the truth. You can't teach poor 3rd world immigrants Algebra. Why? Because their parents haven't learned past a 3rd grade math themselves, can't speak English. So that is 100% on the schools to actually teach these kids. And guess what? They can't. Even with all the funding in the world, even with ESOL, even with learning specialists, etc... They gap is not closing. Why is that?

Poor Asian immigrants take education seriously and will suffer at the bottom to get their kids the highest education. They teach work ethic and study habits. The parents learn English quicker, go to the library and immerse themselves in whatever they need to, to help their kids.

Go to a library in MCPS on the weekend. 80% of the families in there are Asian. They spend hours in there. My daughter volunteered in one last summer. They set up shop reading and learning. They go outside and have a picnic and come back in again.

It has nothing to do with SES and everything to do with priorities.

Why do people feel a need to build themselves up by tearing other people down?

I also don't see what PP explains as a good thing. I don't WANT my MCPS kid in the library all day. I want him doing an appropriate amount of schoolwork, playing sports, hanging out with family and friends, volunteering etc. Academic superstardom isn't the goal of every family, nor should it be - and I say this as a Sidwell and Ivy league grad. Hustle, grit, and high EQ will get you very, very far in life. And spending all weekend at a library won't teach you that. I want my kids doing something they excel at and are passionate about - not getting the highest score on every test. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but stats don't lie which means there is no myth. It is the truth. You can't teach poor 3rd world immigrants Algebra. Why? Because their parents haven't learned past a 3rd grade math themselves, can't speak English. So that is 100% on the schools to actually teach these kids. And guess what? They can't. Even with all the funding in the world, even with ESOL, even with learning specialists, etc... They gap is not closing. Why is that?

Poor Asian immigrants take education seriously and will suffer at the bottom to get their kids the highest education. They teach work ethic and study habits. The parents learn English quicker, go to the library and immerse themselves in whatever they need to, to help their kids.

Go to a library in MCPS on the weekend. 80% of the families in there are Asian. They spend hours in there. My daughter volunteered in one last summer. They set up shop reading and learning. They go outside and have a picnic and come back in again.

It has nothing to do with SES and everything to do with priorities.

Evidently there are no longer any "third world" countries in Asia. The things I learn on DCUM!

(I wonder how you explain the kids in my kid's HS math classes who are the children of immigrants from Africa and South America? They don't exist? They don't count? HS math doesn't count? Or...?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Fair enough. So after your prioritize your job and basic needs like shelter, food, security and medicine. What other thing are you doing for your kids education?

Let me pose the same question in another way.

Even the poorest of Asian students are doing well inspite of the same priorties many of us have (job, basic needs, financial security) - http://www.ajc.com/news/local-education/why-asian-students-well-parents-are-the-primary-educators/54Dqdw1fhAMEn5xdsBN5SM/ , so how are you teaching your children?

Just wanting the best for your children is not enough. You have to be investing your time in their education. I speak this as a parent of a high achieving MCPS student.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/04/asian-students-carry-high-expectations-for-success/2615483/

Can we stop with the model minority myth, please? And especially can we stop using the model minority myth as a club to beat other minorities over the head with?

Not the PP but stats don't lie which means there is no myth. It is the truth. You can't teach poor 3rd world immigrants Algebra. Why? Because their parents haven't learned past a 3rd grade math themselves, can't speak English. So that is 100% on the schools to actually teach these kids. And guess what? They can't. Even with all the funding in the world, even with ESOL, even with learning specialists, etc... They gap is not closing. Why is that?

Poor Asian immigrants take education seriously and will suffer at the bottom to get their kids the highest education. They teach work ethic and study habits. The parents learn English quicker, go to the library and immerse themselves in whatever they need to, to help their kids.

Go to a library in MCPS on the weekend. 80% of the families in there are Asian. They spend hours in there. My daughter volunteered in one last summer. They set up shop reading and learning. They go outside and have a picnic and come back in again.

It has nothing to do with SES and everything to do with priorities.

Parents don't need to speak English for their kids to do well in school. My parents had a es/ms education, still can't speak English well, never helped with HW, and I managed to get good grades and go to college. But yes, they stressed that I needed to be a good student, provided a decent and somewhat stable home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think my child is getting a 'crappy education' (while we're at it, I'm wondering if GDS, Sidwell, Holton, etc students are getting 42K a year worth of education. Do they, really?), my child at her ES is getting an okay education. Our school is excellent, the principal is stellar and the PTA and parents are involved; the peer group is of a high caliber, also. Yes, I'm not crazy about the curriculum, since my child is academically advanced, yes, I think she would benefit from more challenge. That's why we supplement. Do I wish MCPS cater more to its brightest? Yes, of course.

In MS and HS we would reevaluate, but, for now, MCPS it is. And yes, it is superior to Howard and PG (don't know much about Fairfax, but I believe it's comparable).

Wow, 42K? Lots of smart kids from MCPS getting into top colleges without paying $42K for several years in private. I think it's really hard to compare public/private since the same child cant go through both systems and see what the end results are between the two.

In any case, MCPS has issues, as do a lot of other districts (I'm from out west), but it's nowhere near the bottom half. Some districts don't allow any kid of math acceleration. MCPS does, though the math curriculum has some issues. I think the critical reading/writing curriculum is decent, but I know some parents want them to focus on grammar and spelling more. So, again, not perfect, but not horrible either.