My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am laughing because I can't even get offended by your denial. You and I both KNOW children will be children, and they will tease and torment the other child who is much older.

By the way, I have 2 master's degrees in early child development and a PhD in Psychology, in case you think I am hallucinating!

Peace and honesty from the realist!!

Psychology consultation:

I do not follow your logic. If these older kids are red shirted (when they alledgedly shouldn't be from a developmental standpoint) then an extra year in the world alledgedly makes them more physically and intellectually developed than their younger peers ("the unfair advantage" everyone is worried about)-- primed to be leaders in the classroom and gridiron.

What will be the motive/motivation/gumption for the younger child to tease or bully the older child that is bigger, stronger, smarter and more handsome? Why wouldn't envy and adoration prevail instead?

I think I need to first let you know where I stand on the redshirting issue, so you will be more informed about my position. First, I am against redshirting, period. I feel all children should start K when they are old enough, unless they have delays, in which case maybe they should be enrolled in a different school where their needs can be more appropriately met. Redshirting does not give a child an academic advantage. I believe it hinders them in the long run, and can have negative social implications.

Also, age and looks are not relevant in this case. Handsome boys/men are handsome and pretty girls/women are pretty, whether they are 2 years older or younger. We all attended school with big jocks, so yes - age will give the children (boys in articular) a physical advantage for sports.

Really smart children that are advanced socially, emotionally, and academically will not usually admire older bigger children who are academically slow. Also, I am not predicting they will bully less smart kids. I simply know that intellect is still considered a positive thing for kids to possess, and those who have it are often able to recognize or make assumptions about others who seem to lack it in school.

Realist

As a realist and reader of biography history informs me people through the ages that have made a difference to mankind and the globe have not been the swiftest, smartest and youngest. I would never raise my children in a cocoon destined to "smooth" the Bell shape curve in favor of homogeneous ages, WPSSI scores and hypoactive children that do not "cause trouble". It's nice to have choices even if some of these choices include public schools along the way.

You are quite off the mark about behavior and activity levels. It is often the high ability child who is hyperactive, given the rapid pace at which they process information and can get bored easily. Oh, let me guess, but the hyper ones get diagnosed with ADHD, don't they?

[Anonymous]

There is a belief that summer boys can not cut it, I wonder if there is a unknown rule about blacks and hispanics. When do they need to turn 5 by? Is the same April cut-off or is it Jan. because they need the extra time? This is discrimination pure and simple. Privates, will almost come out and tell you that summer boys are not ready, and there numbers would bare this out. This is discrimination and if they said that there cut-off was different (earlier) for blacks and hispanics they would be sued and run out of town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a belief that summer boys can not cut it, I wonder if there is a unknown rule about blacks and hispanics. When do they need to turn 5 by? Is the same April cut-off or is it Jan. because they need the extra time? This is discrimination pure and simple. Privates, will almost come out and tell you that summer boys are not ready, and there numbers would bare this out. This is discrimination and if they said that there cut-off was different (earlier) for blacks and hispanics they would be sued and run out of town.

I am so confused. My Black son was denied entry into first grade, though he completed K last year. The reasons both public and private schools have noted are his age versus everyone else's. He turned 5 in May of 2011. The children entering K are 6 plus years old, some are 5 to 5 1/2.

What does this have to do with being Black, Hispanic, vegetarian, fat, skinny, pretty, or weird? The conistently presented issue is one surrounding the age of an entrant, not color. Now if you say it is sex discrimination, then I would stand behind you in the fight because I was told a boy is not as mature, regardless of the fact my child's test scores indicate he paces beyond first grade academically. He will be homeschooled, until we figure out what to do. He is not repeating Kindergarten.

I don't know where you live, but the Maryland Department of Education indicates a child must be 5 by some point during September to start K and 6 by some specific date in September of the year of enrollment. Early admissions tests can be given to children who will turn 5 no later than Dec. 31 of the year he or she is trying to enroll in K, or 6 by Dec. 31st of the year to be enrolled in 1st grade. For early admission to K, they must pass a test, which will not be given until they have sat in the K class for 6 weeks. I cannot speak for other counties in MD, but know Montgomery public and private schools follow those guidelines strictly as noted by the state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a belief that summer boys can not cut it, I wonder if there is a unknown rule about blacks and hispanics. When do they need to turn 5 by? Is the same April cut-off or is it Jan. because they need the extra time? This is discrimination pure and simple. Privates, will almost come out and tell you that summer boys are not ready, and there numbers would bare this out. This is discrimination and if they said that there cut-off was different (earlier) for blacks and hispanics they would be sued and run out of town.

I am so confused. My Black son was denied entry into first grade, though he completed K last year. The reasons both public and private schools have noted are his age versus everyone else's. He turned 5 in May of 2011. The children entering K are 6 plus years old, some are 5 to 5 1/2.

What does this have to do with being Black, Hispanic, vegetarian, fat, skinny, pretty, or weird? The conistently presented issue is one surrounding the age of an entrant, not color. Now if you say it is sex discrimination, then I would stand behind you in the fight because I was told a boy is not as mature, regardless of the fact my child's test scores indicate he paces beyond first grade academically. He will be homeschooled, until we figure out what to do. He is not repeating Kindergarten.

I don't know where you live, but the Maryland Department of Education indicates a child must be 5 by some point during September to start K and 6 by some specific date in September of the year of enrollment. Early admissions tests can be given to children who will turn 5 no later than Dec. 31 of the year he or she is trying to enroll in K, or 6 by Dec. 31st of the year to be enrolled in 1st grade. For early admission to K, they must pass a test, which will not be given until they have sat in the K class for 6 weeks. I cannot speak for other counties in MD, but know Montgomery public and private schools follow those guidelines strictly as noted by the state.

Correction of typo above: Kids must be 6 by a specific date in September of the year they will enroll in 1st grade.

[Anonymous]

My point is that it is sex discrimination and that it is tolerated. It is blatant. If it was blatant race discrimination it would never happen. They would not be so direct and the community as a whole would not tolerate it. Plus they would be sued. Also, do you think if someone believes that boys can not sit still that it is impossible for them to think that other races are inferior or can not keep up. It becomes a slippery slope. When you believe one sterotype you are likely to believe another. What about black boys? Is the age cut-off different for black boys? Do you think they would give a black summer birthday the benefit of the doubt? What about April?

And yes, I am black. I do not think there are a ton of spots for black kids in a lot of the privates that I looked at. Maybe 1 to 3 spots per grade but that was it, not sure how many applicants but if there was 4 qualified black applicants 1 was getting left out.

Not to worry, I think you can reenroll your child, I think they stop checking age either entering 2nd or 3rd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My point is that it is sex discrimination and that it is tolerated. It is blatant. If it was blatant race discrimination it would never happen. They would not be so direct and the community as a whole would not tolerate it. Plus they would be sued. Also, do you think if someone believes that boys can not sit still that it is impossible for them to think that other races are inferior or can not keep up. It becomes a slippery slope. When you believe one sterotype you are likely to believe another. What about black boys? Is the age cut-off different for black boys? Do you think they would give a black summer birthday the benefit of the doubt? What about April?

And yes, I am black. I do not think there are a ton of spots for black kids in a lot of the privates that I looked at. Maybe 1 to 3 spots per grade but that was it, not sure how many applicants but if there was 4 qualified black applicants 1 was getting left out.

Not to worry, I think you can reenroll your child, I think they stop checking age either entering 2nd or 3rd.

Please communicate your message a bit more responsibly, and recognize you cannnot frame this as a race issue. I cannot support you on framing that aspect of the thread in a manner that can be misinterpreted. It is very critical that we stick to the facts. The facts are: 1- There is a cutoff date for enrollment. 2 - Private school enrollment is way down in many areas because of the overall economic uncertainty, with the exception of a few schools. 3 - Yes, particularly in Montgomery County and other areas that might have less diversity in certain zip codes, there are very few (0 in some schools) Blacks enrolled in private schools outside of Silver Spring and Kensington. It is more of a regional demographic issue, than I believe it is a discrimination issue. 4 - Most of the private schools will take almost any child who shows up right now, because they need the money. So, if you feel they are discriminating against your child, he or she does not need to be there, regardless. Go somewhere else. Be glad they are showing they discriminate, if they are, in your face. It is not right, but it is reality. Your child is better off somewhere else.

I, too, am a Black person, and I have no problem finding "spots" for my child in private schools. I have been to all excpet 5 in Montgomery County, and they all seemed more than willing to take my $15 to $30k a year for tuition.

Please do not make this a racial issue.

[Anonymous]

If you have a credit card and can walk and chew gum getting in to most area private schools today is a piece of cake. Pure and simple. Maybe easier than getting into public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought Kindergarten was supposed to help kids get ready for their future learning experiences in all-day school. In other words, I thought it was the class that set the stage for moving forward, the starting point. Why does anyone need to be "ready"? Isn't that the whole point of Kindergarten? Maybe I am a bit off here.

I hear you....but that is a very naive view of the private school scene her in the DMV.

Academically, K in these places is what more akin to 1st grade in other parts of the country. And the parents demand it here!

[Anonymous]

Well, as a parent of kids on both sides of this issue, I am somewhat disturbed by some of the comments here.

My DD has always been one of the younger kids in her class. I cannot point to any negative incident that was a direct result of her being in the class with older kids. She had good and bad experiences with older kids and age level kids. There was no disctinction. In her case, the older kids were not “slow”. They were pretty bright and she became good friends with many of them. But we never became obsessed with the ages of her classmates. In our minds, we had certain expecations for her and the ages of her classmates was irrelevant. They did not get in the way of her achievement.

My DS (5 years younger than DD) started a year late at the school’s request – he repeated pre-K. He is on the small side so size was never an issue. He has done very well academically, but I am not sure that harms any of the other kids. If he had started on time, he would have been one of those disruptive kids – he was just not ready at 5. Not solely my opinion. The private school initiated the conversation.

But I must warn all you anti redshirters. Once your kid gets to high school, they will be in the mix with folks of varying ages. As a high school freshman, my DD was in Spanish classes and math classes with perfectly capable college bound HS juniors and seniors. She is a varsity athlete, so as a 14YO freshman she was competing with and against 18 YO’s. If you think there is difference between a 5 YO and a 7YO, wait until you see the difference between an 18YO getting ready for college and a 14YO still trying to find her locker! But you know what? That is life!!!

My advice is to worry more about what you can do to help your child progress – and stop focusing on the other children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a belief that summer boys can not cut it, I wonder if there is a unknown rule about blacks and hispanics. When do they need to turn 5 by? Is the same April cut-off or is it Jan. because they need the extra time? This is discrimination pure and simple. Privates, will almost come out and tell you that summer boys are not ready, and there numbers would bare this out. This is discrimination and if they said that there cut-off was different (earlier) for blacks and hispanics they would be sued and run out of town.

I am so confused. My Black son was denied entry into first grade, though he completed K last year. The reasons both public and private schools have noted are his age versus everyone else's. He turned 5 in May of 2011. The children entering K are 6 plus years old, some are 5 to 5 1/2.

What does this have to do with being Black, Hispanic, vegetarian, fat, skinny, pretty, or weird? The conistently presented issue is one surrounding the age of an entrant, not color. Now if you say it is sex discrimination, then I would stand behind you in the fight because I was told a boy is not as mature, regardless of the fact my child's test scores indicate he paces beyond first grade academically. He will be homeschooled, until we figure out what to do. He is not repeating Kindergarten.

I don't know where you live, but the Maryland Department of Education indicates a child must be 5 by some point during September to start K and 6 by some specific date in September of the year of enrollment. Early admissions tests can be given to children who will turn 5 no later than Dec. 31 of the year he or she is trying to enroll in K, or 6 by Dec. 31st of the year to be enrolled in 1st grade. For early admission to K, they must pass a test, which will not be given until they have sat in the K class for 6 weeks. I cannot speak for other counties in MD, but know Montgomery public and private schools follow those guidelines strictly as noted by the state.

I don't know what private schools you think you know about but private schools that we have been to (4 at last count) do not follow the kindergarten requirements at all. Each school decides what they want to do very specifically for each child. If a school does not think your kid is ready for that particular grade, they will ask you to repeat if you want to attend that school. This happens not just for K but upper grades as well. (3, 6, and 9) Private schools do not have to follow state ed requirements. Public has to have 180 days. Many privates do 175 days. Maryland has a new environmental requirement for graduation. Not true for privates. Public's have a community service requirement for graduation, each private has it's own ideas regarding community service. Being private means that each school decides on its own requirements for graduation which is why they are private.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous] [/quote]
i agree. why do you care OP? as long as your child is getting the educational experience you hope for them you really shouldn't care about the others in his class. [/quote]

The point is that children are not getting the educational experience we want.

The education systems are a mess. The "advanced curriculum" idea has in many cases turned K into 1st grade with a ripple effect on down the line to about 7th grade. So it's no wonder bright children are being held back one year and some children with completely manageable learning challenges are held back two years.

What, in essence, has happened is that the exception has become the norm. Of course there are 5-year-olds advanced enough to tackle a 1st grade curriculum, bright kids who are late bloomers, down-the-middle kids and kids with challenges. But we have this crazy "K is the new 1st grade" mindset that works for a small minority of students and we shove children in here and there to accommodate the system instead of having the system accommodate the children. We pigeonhole many children before they have had chance to learn the three Rs,

It's nutty. If you want to play this game your best bet is to have girls with January birthdays!

[Anonymous]

Good post. Thx.

Anonymous wrote:Well, as a parent of kids on both sides of this issue, I am somewhat disturbed by some of the comments here.

My DD has always been one of the younger kids in her class. I cannot point to any negative incident that was a direct result of her being in the class with older kids. She had good and bad experiences with older kids and age level kids. There was no disctinction. In her case, the older kids were not “slow”. They were pretty bright and she became good friends with many of them. But we never became obsessed with the ages of her classmates. In our minds, we had certain expecations for her and the ages of her classmates was irrelevant. They did not get in the way of her achievement.

My DS (5 years younger than DD) started a year late at the school’s request – he repeated pre-K. He is on the small side so size was never an issue. He has done very well academically, but I am not sure that harms any of the other kids. If he had started on time, he would have been one of those disruptive kids – he was just not ready at 5. Not solely my opinion. The private school initiated the conversation.

But I must warn all you anti redshirters. Once your kid gets to high school, they will be in the mix with folks of varying ages. As a high school freshman, my DD was in Spanish classes and math classes with perfectly capable college bound HS juniors and seniors. She is a varsity athlete, so as a 14YO freshman she was competing with and against 18 YO’s. If you think there is difference between a 5 YO and a 7YO, wait until you see the difference between an 18YO getting ready for college and a 14YO still trying to find her locker! But you know what? That is life!!!

My advice is to worry more about what you can do to help your child progress – and stop focusing on the other children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

i agree. why do you care OP? as long as your child is getting the educational experience you hope for them you really shouldn't care about the others in his class.

The point is that children are not getting the educational experience we want.

The education systems are a mess. The "advanced curriculum" idea has in many cases turned K into 1st grade with a ripple effect on down the line to about 7th grade. So it's no wonder bright children are being held back one year and some children with completely manageable learning challenges are held back two years.

What, in essence, has happened is that the exception has become the norm. Of course there are 5-year-olds advanced enough to tackle a 1st grade curriculum, bright kids who are late bloomers, down-the-middle kids and kids with challenges. But we have this crazy "K is the new 1st grade" mindset that works for a small minority of students and we shove children in here and there to accommodate the system instead of having the system accommodate the children. We pigeonhole many children before they have had chance to learn the three Rs,

It's nutty. If you want to play this game your best bet is to have girls with January birthdays!

I think you're completely overstating the situation. I've got 2 children who have been at 3 different schools. Age has never been an issue. At the absolute extreme, I can think of one year when there were 5 children in a grade of 40-50 who had summer (June-Aug) birthdays, and none with earlier birthdays. And for every one of those "redshirted" children, you'd never have guessed they were held back unless you'd been invited to their summer birthday parties. You make it sound like some horrible epidemic, but it's really not a big deal in the real world.

[Anonymous]

In all honesty, I am happy that you've had no problems with this issue.

Just to be clear, though, the issue is not that kids with summer birthdays are waiting a year to enter K; the problem is that my three children have been in classrooms with students who were as much as two years older. We have managed just fine by, in the early years, explaining that there was no reason to worry about competing in school because school is for learning.

But make no mistake about it: if this was not a real issue there would not be 23 pages of posts written during the summer recess! One of my DDs was asked in K, by an older-by-two-years classmate, Why are you in K. DD is too precocious by far and so had her retort ready: The real question is why are you in K. I don't like that my DD undoubtedly hurt this child's feelings but I like it even less that she was put in that position by the school.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]... my three children have been in classrooms with students who were as much as two years older. [/quote]
Are your children "right aged" for the classroom? Or did you push them ahead a year?