Disappointed by the MoCo gifted programs?

[Anonymous]

We're trying to decide between MoCo and DCPS for our academically talented kids. We'll be moving to DC soon, and need to figure this out.

Is anyone disappointed by the MoCo gifted programs? Are they too competitive? Is it hard on kids moving from school to school? Do kids in these programs lose perspective, start to think they are "better" people simply because they are better at academic subjects?

Our kids are smart, but there's no special program for academically talented kids here, and they are under-challenged. Socially, however, our kids are happy in our diverse (racially and economically) neighborhood school (lots of college professors' kids). We don't give our kids a lot of material things (except books), and we are teaching them not to compare themselves with other children. My sense is I'll find more families like ours in DCPS, and fewer in the areas of MoCo with the "best" schools, ie highest test scores.

Do parents of kids in DCPS feel they are shortchanging their smart kids by staying there VS moving to the suburbs? We can't afford private schools, nor can we afford to move twice. The "safe" choice would be MoCo, but I'd really like to hear from parents of kids in the gifted programs there, especially parents like us who are educated but not competitive and don't care where our kids go to college as long as they are happy and challenged. Thanks so much for your responses.

[Anonymous]

We're academics living in MoCo, so there are at least a few of us here. Our child (a professor's kid!) is in kindergarten, so we can't yet say completely how we like the gifted programs, but we're hopeful.

A few thoughts: Since the official curriculum is the same across MoCo, I'd definitely take a closer look at individual schools. I believe school leadership matters a lot--so if the principal doesn't seem to value gifted education, that would be a red flag. You may know that the highly gifted centers don't start until fourth grade, so you'd want to make sure you like the home school for the early years (and in case your child doesn't want to go to a center or doesn't get in). Individual schools can offer extra differentiation for kids--or make it more difficult.

Also, the neighborhood matters. We found a down-to-earth neighborhood--lots of scientists and researchers. Parents are really involved in the school and don't seem competitive or status-conscious. Test scores are very high, but not the very highest in MoCo--which might be a good thing, as we definitely didn't want a school where high test scores were the main goal.

You might want to ask your question at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GTAletters/. Their archive is searchable also and might point you to individual schools to consider.

I loved being able to compare schools based on surveys of parents and children: http://sharedaccountability.mcpsprimetime.org/SurveyResults/
Our school, for instance, shows higher parental volunteering relative to other MoCo schools, and fewer kids thought teasing was a problem than other schools.

[Anonymous]

We live in DC and have a child who is quite academically advanced. Over the course of several years, starting when we realized we had an extremely early reader on our hands, we visited our neighborhood DCPS elementary school, trying to ascertain if it would be a good fit for our child, starting in preK or K. This school is one of the better NW public schools. We asked what the school would do, for instance, when a child starts preK already a very fluent reader and writer. We were told that they wouldn't do much of anything, but that "if necessary," they would consider "sneaking" our child up to second or third grade during reading period.

We didn't relish the idea of our child sneaking around school (hiding what? from whom?) and we were unsure about a very small 4-year-old routinely spending part of the day with 8-year-olds.

We also were quite concerned because the vast majority of every school day was spent on reading, writing, and math, with precious little time spent on "specials" such as music, art, PE, drama, or IT. We all agree that reading, writing, and math are crucial, of course, but given how far along our child was in those areas, we worried that the school day would be quite boring. No parent wants his or her child to spend the school week going over classroom material that he/she mastered several years ago, with few breaks for cultural enrichment.

Given these concerns, and despite our initial intention to send our children to public school, we started to look at private schools. We found one that suited our needs quite well, and our child has been there for several years as a financial aid recipient.

Please do not assume that all DC public schools would offer so little to prospective parents in this situation, but I did want to relate our story. The DCPS chancellor has said that she would like to bring back the gifted/talented programs that were ended some years ago, but that may be a way off. In the meantime, I encourage you to visit the DCPS schools in the neighborhoods that interest you, meet with each principal, and judge for yourself the commitment to meeting your particular children's needs.

Good luck making the decision that's best for your children.

[Anonymous]

Don't assume you'll find more parents like you in DCPS. Most academics I know (including myself) live in MoCo. There are probably particular neighborhoods in MoCo that would meet your criteria more than others. The PPs gave you some good advice. I can tell you our friends with gifted kids in DCPS are still fleeing that system, or searching for privates or charters.

[Anonymous]

I'm a former DCPS parent who thinks my child got a pretty good elementary school education. But I'm sure ANY Montgomery County gifted program would be better than DC because DC just doesn't have anything to offer gifted children. Most of the resources are spent trying to lift up poorly performing schools. I think this is extremely short sighted, since most studies find that schools improve when districts retain middle and upper-middle income families, but there it is.

[Anonymous]

My DC is in one of DC's highest performing elementary schools. We are discouraged by the lack of challenge for especially high students even at a school in which every class boasts at least 5 particularly bright students. This is a problem DCPS will really have to address soon if it wants to retain affluent families.

OP, consider all your options, but I'll acknowledge that DCPS requires parents to arrange their own enrichment activities.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for your responses. 14:06 and 15:06: Would you mind telling me what schools you are in? And what areas of MoCo are more down to earth, not competitive? My impression is that Bethesda and Chevy Chase have the highest test scores, but are also the wealthiest and most competitive. It can't be easy to live on an academic salary in Chevy Chase, for example. I'll settle for lower test scores in a more mixed area that's safe and has enough smart kids so mine won't feel left out.

Anyone unhappy with MoCo gifted programs? Any complaints at all? The best thing about our local school is the fact that all the kids who go there live in the neighborhood, so my kids are surrounded by their friends. If we send them to a MoCo elementary school, and then they move to another school to attend a MoCo gifted program, their friends will be scattered -- has anyone found this to be a problem?

And how do kids feel about the testing process? What happens when my child's best friend goes off to a highly gifted program, and DC is left behind? It could be crushing to a child.

DCPS parents: You seem to be pushing us away from DC schools. Do you regret staying in DCPS? Is there an advantage to living in the District, despite the so-so quality of even the best elementary schools (the ones I hear often are Lafayette, Janney, Murch, Key, Eaton and Mann)?

[Anonymous]

I have a friend with a kid in a MOCO TAG program
The mom is happy, the kid, in my view, seems stressed. I think 2 hrs of homework for a 9 yr old is too much. Another child, a middleschooler was offered a spot in an afterschool program at Silver spring International, but the parents declined, they told me, as it would stretch the school day too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for your responses. 14:06 and 15:06: Would you mind telling me what schools you are in? And what areas of MoCo are more down to earth, not competitive? My impression is that Bethesda and Chevy Chase have the highest test scores, but are also the wealthiest and most competitive. It can't be easy to live on an academic salary in Chevy Chase, for example. I'll settle for lower test scores in a more mixed area that's safe and has enough smart kids so mine won't feel left out.

Anyone unhappy with MoCo gifted programs? Any complaints at all? The best thing about our local school is the fact that all the kids who go there live in the neighborhood, so my kids are surrounded by their friends. If we send them to a MoCo elementary school, and then they move to another school to attend a MoCo gifted program, their friends will be scattered -- has anyone found this to be a problem?

And how do kids feel about the testing process? What happens when my child's best friend goes off to a highly gifted program, and DC is left behind? It could be crushing to a child.

15:06 here. We live in the close-in Takoma Park/Silver Spring area, as do many other academics I know. Our area has very little crime; some parts of Takoma Park and Silver Spring have more crime, so you have to be aware of that in looking around. Our neighborhood is racially and economically mixed. Lots of immigrants and long-time residents with high school educations, and lots of PhDs and other graduate and professional degrees. There are a number of academics and researchers on our street. It's a very down-to-earth, friendly neighborhood. It also has a very urban feel, which probably turns off some people. We're on the Red Line just across from DC so we take Metro or bike to work.

Our child isn't in school yet but our sequence of schools would be Takoma Park Elementary School (K-2), Piney Branch Elementary School (3-5), Takoma Park Middle School and Montgomery Blair High School. Friends who have had children in these schools' magnet and GT programs have generally been happy. TPES draws raves, Piney Branch less so. TPMS gets good reviews. Blair gets great reviews for the magnet program. However, this is not the most homogeneous or prosperous area of the county, so there are some challenges. Our elementary and middle schools are not Title I schools, but they are "focus schools," which means a higher percentage of the kids receive FARMS than the MoCo average. Bethesda and Chevy Chase and Potomac have the elementary schools with the highest test scores, but also the lowest percentage of kids receiving FARMS. We opted to live here for the diversity and laid-back liberal vibe, but our schools don't have the stellar test scores of, say, Potomac. The truth is, though, this neighborhood fits our personality. Every child isn't above average; it's not Lake Wobegon, after all. We don't want to dive into the competitive parenting thing that seems so common here. Life is hard enough.

Good luck with your search, OP.

[Anonymous]

14:06 here, in the Parkwood neighborhood of Kensington/Bethesda. Schools: Kensington Parkwood Elementary School (K-5), North Bethesda Middle School, and Walter Johnson High School. We're right by the beltway near NIH.

There's lots on Parkwood in these DCUM forums if you do a search.

These previous threads might be of interest, too:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/11169.page#64021

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1605.page#6961

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
DCPS parents: You seem to be pushing us away from DC schools. Do you regret staying in DCPS? Is there an advantage to living in the District, despite the so-so quality of even the best elementary schools (the ones I hear often are Lafayette, Janney, Murch, Key, Eaton and Mann)?

17:25 here. I don't mean to push you away from DCPS but feel that full disclosure is appropriate. It's my family's opinion that easy, very frequent access to the city's cultural attractions coupled with the stimulation of a pedestrian-friendly lifestyle and our daily exposure to... a more aesthetically satisfying "built environment" at least partially compensates for the District's lack of ambition for our child. I've also arranged afterschool classes and time together in the afternoons for special projects. I do think, though, that parents shouldn't let DCPS off so easily and really ought to organize a push for more appropriate services for our high-achievers.

You'll weigh your options and make a decision that suits your family.

[Anonymous]

Thanks very much 14:06 and 19:38 for the useful posts.

18:25: Two hours of homework a night for a 9 y.o (third grader?)! That really sounds excessive. What about sports, music, family meals, and just playing? Is that typical of the MoCo gifted programs? Or is your friend's child in the "highly gifted" program? I want my kids to have fun, as well as be excited by what they learn in school. And your other friend's child's after school program -- was that a highly gifted program as well? I thought the gifted curriculum was integrated into the school day, or the kids went to a "highly gifted" program at a specific school. Perhaps I didn't read the fine print on the MoCo schools website?!

I'm still hoping to hear from some DCPS boosters. I'll try posting on the DCPS board.

[Anonymous]

OP again, 23:13: What is your elementary school? Did you find it terrible, or just not challenging to your DC? Do you think there are enough committed parents in your school to make a difference, or is the overall DCPS so broken that intractable problems won't be solved before our grandchildren are in college, if then?

You don't sound as though you are convinced the attractions of the city really do compensate for the lack of quality education for your intelligent child in DCPS. I want to think as you do, but I can see the advantages of MoCo as well (and it's not that far outside the city, although I agree the built environment of DC has its charms).

[Anonymous]

DCPS parent here. Our kids went to DCPS elementary school, then private. I'd do it again. They went to one of the better elementary schools, got a fine education, and made a wonderful, diverse group of friends. But we did not believe that the DCPS middle/high shcool experience would have been as positive, and to be perfectly honest, the teachers, resources, small class size, and enrichment activities (art, music, sports) where they are now are better than what DCPS has to offer, in our opinion. We have lived in DC all of our adult lives (with the exception of law school), and could not imagine moving to MD or VA. So we're biting the bullet and forking over the 60K a year, but at least we saved tuition on elementary school! I'm not knocking parents who choose to send their kids to DCPS or have no choice. It's just that for us, as long as we could afford it (although it's a big item for us) I couldn't justify not giving my kids the best education I could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again, 23:13: What is your elementary school? Did you find it terrible, or just not challenging to your DC? Do you think there are enough committed parents in your school to make a difference, or is the overall DCPS so broken that intractable problems won't be solved before our grandchildren are in college, if then?

You don't sound as though you are convinced the attractions of the city really do compensate for the lack of quality education for your intelligent child in DCPS. I want to think as you do, but I can see the advantages of MoCo as well (and it's not that far outside the city, although I agree the built environment of DC has its charms).

23:13 here... OP, none of the Ward 3 elementary schools are broken at all. They're in a good position to retain the most qualified teachers, in relatively good physical condition, and consist of mostly affluent students whose parents are very involved. What they don't have is a mandate from DCPS to provide enrichment to students already above grade level, presumably because DCPS, on the whole, has its hands full. These schools, however, have relatively few disadvantaged students and many who would benefit from enrichment. I think that for them, the focus on narrowing the testing achievement gap is misplaced. That's not to say that exciting things don't happen in the classroom, or that enrichment is completely ignored. It just isn't a high priority, and parents may meet some resistance when they insist.

We have no plans to leave the city and can actually be very militant urbanists. I was trying to tone it down because I respect that others may have different priorities! If I could afford private, I would do it at this point. Thing is, we're pretty middle-income. I like to call it genteel poverty.

My kid is still in elementary, but I have some limited knowledge of Deal (middle school) and think it offers an interesting range of extra-curricular experiences. I really don't know much about Wilson first-hand, so anything I can say about it will really be a repeat of whatever its DCUM boosters and detractors have posted. HTH!