WPPSI/WISC Myths

[Anonymous]

I will begin by saying I am no fan of this site. I have worked in admissions for many years, and have encountered dozens and dozens of parents who have been needlessly worried by misinformation they read here. The majority of the stress seems to be coming from what they hear about the WPPSI and the WISC, and specifically what the scores mean and how the schools use them. I thought I would add my two cents. I am not planning on coming back to read replies, as I have seen how vitriolic it can get and I do not see what good it would do to have yet another heated dialogue on this subject. I do hope, however, that this helps some parents take a deep breath and realize there is more than one way to look at these assessments.

Obviously, all schools use the WPPSI and WISC a bit differently, but I have found the following to be true:

1. Not all, or even most, successful applicants have scores > 99%ile. I am endlessly amused by the number of 99.8%ile kids I hear about here. They are rare. I know many of you are focused on the most exclusive schools, and I can say that I have seen students not offered admission to these programs that were 99+%ile, and others who were admitted who were in the 75-80%ile (and were not legacies, siblings, politicos, or otherwise famous families). Scores are not the end-all and be-all.

2. There are testers who consistently give students very high scores. If parents have figured this out, than you best believe admissions offices have as well, and take it into consideration when weighing test results. Also, keep in mind, if what the schools observe at play days/visits/on report cards does not seem to match up with what the WPPSI/WISC shows, it will raise concerns.

3. The behavioral observations on the test and play days/visits are as or more important to me than whether or not than the student has superior or very superior scores. I would take a high-average student who has a good attitude, is hard working, and has reasonable parents over a very-superior student (according to the testing) who is unmotivated, indulged, or difficult any day of the week. I am convinced that work ethic and attitude are, in general, much better indicators of long-term success than a WISC score.

4. That said, scores do have importance. If there is a 30 point discrepancy between, say, VIQ and PIQ, I might want to investigate a little more why this may be and how it might impact the child. If the scores are all consistently below average, moreover, I would have some concerns.

5. Finally, and PLEASE TAKE NOTE, it is quite evident to an experienced tester when a child has been prepped. Prepping is not allowed for the WPPSI and WISC, and if a tester suspects prepping, they are ethically obligated to indicate this, and schools will disregard the results (many schools say this on their websites). Even in a case where the tester and/or school do not discover the child has been prepped, the practice can prove to be a great disservice to the child. Most admissions offices, believe it or not, are genuinely looking to serve children and families, as well as their teachers and staff, well, by identifying good fits. Inflated or otherwise inaccurate test scores do not help them do this. Furthermore, the companies that are selling prep materials are charging ridiculous prices and preying on the fears and insecurities of concerned parents who only want the best for their children. (Can you tell I am a bit upset with such companies??)

The bottom line is, admissions offices are trying to find students who will be a good match for their program, and who teachers will enjoy teaching. WPPSI and WISC scores are only one part of the equation they look at to determine this.

I hope that some of what I've said helps put your fears at ease. There are so many wonderful schools in this area that do a fabulous job preparing kids for the next step. I urge you to think outside the box, resist giving into the anxiety that this site attempts to create, and remember that you have a lovely child who, if you apply to appropriate schools, will end up in a place that supports and encourages them to not only achieve academically, but socially and emotionally as well.

[Anonymous]

I would take a high-average student who has a good attitude, is hard working, and has reasonable parents over a very-superior student (according to the testing) who is unmotivated, indulged, or difficult any day of the week.

Ok, I don't disagree with your comments about the tests, but for K admissions, how are you going to tell whether they are generally hardworking or have a good attitude? The disposition of such little kids often varies day to day. If they're having a less friendly or less cheerful day on the date of the playdate, that's very unfortunate for them and their family. It's all sort of arbitrary.

[Anonymous]

Not the OP, however, if your child is saying threatening things to other people, talking about what treat they are going to get when they are finished, or swinging chairs or other hard objects around, during the playdate, this is not just a bad day. If your child gets a little teary at separation, or even cries outright, but then becomes interested and engaged once in the classroom, this is understood as normal, and not bad at all.

[Anonymous]

Thank you OP. We used a tester whom we had a connection with through a friend but is not one of the popular testers. DC received an average score (around 75%) and we were really upset. All of DC's classmates who went with one of the popular testers received 90+%. Our WPPSI tester said she almost never sees a 99% kid, yet it seems certain WPPSI testers give those scores often. It does make you wonder. And while K-aged kids certainly have good and bad days, I think you can get a pretty good idea of their general personalities and attitudes through the playdate and teacher recommendations.

We were extremely stressed through the admission process, but DC ended up doing just fine and got accepted into our #1 choice. I wish I had seen a post like OP's before going through the process.

[Anonymous]

Not the OP, however, if your child is saying threatening things to other people, talking about what treat they are going to get when they are finished, or swinging chairs or other hard objects around, during the playdate, this is not just a bad day.

Yes, I think the playdate can establish whether your child suffers from a mental illness or has been bribed by you, but the OP indicated that the schools are looking for qualities beyond those very basic thresholds.

[Anonymous]

11:03, would you please share the name of your tester? I do not want to get someone whose scores are suspect.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
2. There are testers who consistently give students very high scores. If parents have figured this out, than you best believe admissions offices have as well, and take it into consideration when weighing test results.

from reading the AAP threads, I had suspected this, but here is someone, apparently in-the-know, willing to come out and say it. It is just hard to see how kids with very high WISC get such low GBRS scores and this may be one possible explanation.

[Anonymous]

My advice would be to ask a couple of the schools where you plan on applying to suggest testers. I think some schools even post lists of preferred testers online (or at least I know they used to post them).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2. There are testers who consistently give students very high scores. If parents have figured this out, than you best believe admissions offices have as well, and take it into consideration when weighing test results.

from reading the AAP threads, I had suspected this, but here is someone, apparently in-the-know, willing to come out and say it. It is just hard to see how kids with very high WISC get such low GBRS scores and this may be one possible explanation.

It's b/c in many cases high WISC and low GBRS indicate that the kid may have issues like Asperger's or ADHD. G&T programs serve this types of kids well BTW whereas private schools try to weed them out with behavioral observations and play date. Also, many of these kids come by their high WISC scores fairly and not by going though testers who are known to give high scores since many take the WISC/WIPSII as part of a complete neuropsych eval to get a diagnosis not primarily to get entrance into private school or a G&T program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2. There are testers who consistently give students very high scores. If parents have figured this out, than you best believe admissions offices have as well, and take it into consideration when weighing test results.

from reading the AAP threads, I had suspected this, but here is someone, apparently in-the-know, willing to come out and say it. It is just hard to see how kids with very high WISC get such low GBRS scores and this may be one possible explanation.

It could be that certain testers establish a better rapport with kids and bring out their best. We went to one of the highly recommended testers from this board, and she was great. Before the test began, while I was still there, she began asking our child basic information like his birthday, and she seemed delighted that he knew the year he was born and not just the month and date. She complimented him on this, saying, "That's really good. A lot of kids wouldn't know that." I beamed with pride and DS felt good about himself. Soon after, I left to run errands while the WISC was done. It wasn't until many months later that it dawned on me that the tester may have been trying to put DS in a good frame of mind by complimenting him. I don't know if this tester is known to give "inflated" scores -- I certainly would have gone elsewhere if I had believed this, wanting only valid and respected results -- but I could see how kids might do better if they are feeling positive rather than nervous or negative. I'm sure that the tester would not mark as correct any answers that had been incorrect!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My advice would be to ask a couple of the schools where you plan on applying to suggest testers. I think some schools even post lists of preferred testers online (or at least I know they used to post them).

Thanks. Did that already years ago. Are you saying that the schools don't recommend easy testers? Because I have never seen one tester discussed on here whose name does not appear on the school lists.

I have reasons for wanting to change testers, which stem from the recommended tester failing to send the results more than once. I would still like 11:03 to recommend their tester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice would be to ask a couple of the schools where you plan on applying to suggest testers. I think some schools even post lists of preferred testers online (or at least I know they used to post them).

Thanks. Did that already years ago. Are you saying that the schools don't recommend easy testers?.

No, I'm saying schools recommend testers they feel comfortable with. Whether the tester is an "easy grader" or a "hard grader," the school will know it and adjust accordingly.

Some schools might know and avoid extremely easy graders, or extremely hard graders, because they don't consider their scores reliable. Best to be guided by what the school you're applying to thinks best. Otherwise, you risk having a test result the school considers worthless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice would be to ask a couple of the schools where you plan on applying to suggest testers. I think some schools even post lists of preferred testers online (or at least I know they used to post them).

Thanks. Did that already years ago. Are you saying that the schools don't recommend easy testers?.

No, I'm saying schools recommend testers they feel comfortable with. Whether the tester is an "easy grader" or a "hard grader," the school will know it and adjust accordingly.

Some schools might know and avoid extremely easy graders, or extremely hard graders, because they don't consider their scores reliable. Best to be guided by what the school you're applying to thinks best. Otherwise, you risk having a test result the school considers worthless.

I wouldn't go quite that far. I had my DC tested by someone not on the list, with no problems. I think the schools list the testers they know a lot about, which often means the bigger groups. At least on some school websites, they make it clear that it isn't an endorsement - they're just trying to help parents get started.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice would be to ask a couple of the schools where you plan on applying to suggest testers. I think some schools even post lists of preferred testers online (or at least I know they used to post them).

Thanks. Did that already years ago. Are you saying that the schools don't recommend easy testers?.

No, I'm saying schools recommend testers they feel comfortable with. Whether the tester is an "easy grader" or a "hard grader," the school will know it and adjust accordingly.

Some schools might know and avoid extremely easy graders, or extremely hard graders, because they don't consider their scores reliable. Best to be guided by what the school you're applying to thinks best. Otherwise, you risk having a test result the school considers worthless.

But why would the school recommend someone they consider an easy grader? I don't want the school "adjust[ing] accordingly." I want the school to say, "They didn't shop around for an easy tester."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice would be to ask a couple of the schools where you plan on applying to suggest testers. I think some schools even post lists of preferred testers online (or at least I know they used to post them).

Thanks. Did that already years ago. Are you saying that the schools don't recommend easy testers?.

No, I'm saying schools recommend testers they feel comfortable with. Whether the tester is an "easy grader" or a "hard grader," the school will know it and adjust accordingly.

Some schools might know and avoid extremely easy graders, or extremely hard graders, because they don't consider their scores reliable. Best to be guided by what the school you're applying to thinks best. Otherwise, you risk having a test result the school considers worthless.

But why would the school recommend someone they consider an easy grader? I don't want the school "adjust[ing] accordingly." I want the school to say, "They didn't shop around for an easy tester."

I don't understand you, PP. I don't know whether, or why, particular schools choose to recommend particular testers. If you want to know that, ask the schools. I just know that if you pick someone unknown to the school (or unrecommended by the school), there is some risk involved. Maybe the tester is an extremely easy (or hard) grader. Maybe the tester is unreliable. Maybe the school just doesn't know how to evaluate the tester. Or maybe you'll pick someone fine with no problems whatsoever, like one of the other PPs did. But if the school is willing to offer you names of testers, it seems best to use one of those. YMMV. Good luck.