Lawyers...what do you think of the Weil Gotshal cuts?

[Anonymous]

Lawyers, I'm curious what you think of the Weil Gotshal cuts. Is this going to be 2009 all over again? Frankly, I think the state of big law practice is quite depressing, but I also don't want to lose my job. YIKES.

[Anonymous]

At least Weil was upfront about it. The worst is when law firms smile and say they aren't doing lay offs, just "aggressive performance reviews," thus making it harder for those to get laid off.

[Anonymous]

The entire business model on which BigLaw is operating and is premised now is flawed, outmoded, and is in the process of collapsing IMO.

In fact a press release on the Weil Gotshal firings referred to "industry" practice and conditions. Very telling that it did not refer to practices and conditions in the "profession", which is what law was when I began my career in 1980.

It's barely/ not really a profession anymore, and the standards of civility and professionalism have taken a dump as the ironclad focus on the bottom line has taken over.

Not a pretty sight. Not something to be proud of. A lot more of this to come IMO.

[Anonymous]

steven harper (northwestern, big law partner) spells it out perfectly in his book and recent articles over the last 3-4 months in various publications.

[Anonymous]

I don't think we will see big associate layoffs, because hiring has been so much lower the last few years. I do think we'll see partner and staff layoffs. Citibank estimates that there are 5000 too many lawyers in the firms (mostly amlaw firms) in their database.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:steven harper (northwestern, big law partner) spells it out perfectly in his book and recent articles over the last 3-4 months in various publications.

He seems to just want the profession to go back to the good old days. Not going to happen, just like it hasn't happened for other professional service firms.

[Anonymous]

Raising the socio-economic levels for the masses through education and other opportunities has led to a glut in professions that were once exclusively for the wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The entire business model on which BigLaw is operating and is premised now is flawed, outmoded, and is in the process of collapsing IMO.

In fact a press release on the Weil Gotshal firings referred to "industry" practice and conditions. Very telling that it did not refer to practices and conditions in the "profession", which is what law was when I began my career in 1980.

It's barely/ not really a profession anymore, and the standards of civility and professionalism have taken a dump as the ironclad focus on the bottom line has taken over.

Not a pretty sight. Not something to be proud of. A lot more of this to come IMO.

DH, a mid-'80s law school grad, left a BigLaw partnership to go to a smaller firm with lower billing rates. He is so much happier and his practice is booming. We had banked a lot of money over the years he was in BigLaw (house paid for, kids' college and grad school saving done, a sizeable retirement fund); as a result, the paycut been surprisingly easy.

We are both grads of a top 3 law school, and I find it remarkable how many of our friends from law school are discouraging their children from becoming lawyers. I'm talking about people who have had amazing careers in the law -- Supreme Court clerkships, DOJ honors, BigLaw p-ships, GCs at prominent NGOs, high-level political appointments, etc. -- all are saying to their kids, "don't go to law school."

Our younger son, a college student, would be a terrific lawyer and would love the work, but DH is advising him to pursue other options. He's a STEM major and his friends at school say, "Man, you would be a fool not to make bank in Big Data, i-banking or consulting." Yes, in the past 30 years too many people have gone to law school, but the prospective loss of talented young people who would contribute much to our society as lawyers worries me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire business model on which BigLaw is operating and is premised now is flawed, outmoded, and is in the process of collapsing IMO.

In fact a press release on the Weil Gotshal firings referred to "industry" practice and conditions. Very telling that it did not refer to practices and conditions in the "profession", which is what law was when I began my career in 1980.

It's barely/ not really a profession anymore, and the standards of civility and professionalism have taken a dump as the ironclad focus on the bottom line has taken over.

Not a pretty sight. Not something to be proud of. A lot more of this to come IMO.

DH, a mid-'80s law school grad, left a BigLaw partnership to go to a smaller firm with lower billing rates. He is so much happier and his practice is booming. We had banked a lot of money over the years he was in BigLaw (house paid for, kids' college and grad school saving done, a sizeable retirement fund); as a result, the paycut been surprisingly easy.

We are both grads of a top 3 law school, and I find it remarkable how many of our friends from law school are discouraging their children from becoming lawyers. I'm talking about people who have had amazing careers in the law -- Supreme Court clerkships, DOJ honors, BigLaw p-ships, GCs at prominent NGOs, high-level political appointments, etc. -- all are saying to their kids, "don't go to law school."

Our younger son, a college student, would be a terrific lawyer and would love the work, but DH is advising him to pursue other options. He's a STEM major and his friends at school say, "Man, you would be a fool not to make bank in Big Data, i-banking or consulting." Yes, in the past 30 years too many people have gone to law school, but the prospective loss of talented young people who would contribute much to our society as lawyers worries me.

Probably this has something to do with it:

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legalwhiteboard/2012/03/too-good-for-biglaw-the-statistician-edition.html

http://thecareerist.typepad.com/thecareerist/2012/03/best-second-tier-law-schools-for-big-law.html

I personally think individuals smart enough for YHS for law would be bored to tears in biglaw and/or not as willing to put up with the shit that comes with it.

Especially if your son has inter-generational wealth as it seems like he does, why do something like law when he has the comfort to try something else?

[Anonymous]

Do any of you have independent thoughts or do you just parrot comments on Above the Law?

[Anonymous]

I think they're indicative of a fundamentally dysfunctional industry that operates in a way and at a rate that is unsustainable for the client's pocketbooks, employee's lifestyles, and its own firm's bottom lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think they're indicative of a fundamentally dysfunctional industry that operates in a way and at a rate that is unsustainable for the client's pocketbooks, employee's lifestyles, and its own firm's bottom lines.

This. The big firms have gotten too greedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire business model on which BigLaw is operating and is premised now is flawed, outmoded, and is in the process of collapsing IMO.

In fact a press release on the Weil Gotshal firings referred to "industry" practice and conditions. Very telling that it did not refer to practices and conditions in the "profession", which is what law was when I began my career in 1980.

It's barely/ not really a profession anymore, and the standards of civility and professionalism have taken a dump as the ironclad focus on the bottom line has taken over.

Not a pretty sight. Not something to be proud of. A lot more of this to come IMO.

DH, a mid-'80s law school grad, left a BigLaw partnership to go to a smaller firm with lower billing rates. He is so much happier and his practice is booming. We had banked a lot of money over the years he was in BigLaw (house paid for, kids' college and grad school saving done, a sizeable retirement fund); as a result, the paycut been surprisingly easy.

We are both grads of a top 3 law school, and I find it remarkable how many of our friends from law school are discouraging their children from becoming lawyers. I'm talking about people who have had amazing careers in the law -- Supreme Court clerkships, DOJ honors, BigLaw p-ships, GCs at prominent NGOs, high-level political appointments, etc. -- all are saying to their kids, "don't go to law school."

Our younger son, a college student, would be a terrific lawyer and would love the work, but DH is advising him to pursue other options. He's a STEM major and his friends at school say, "Man, you would be a fool not to make bank in Big Data, i-banking or consulting." Yes, in the past 30 years too many people have gone to law school, but the prospective loss of talented young people who would contribute much to our society as lawyers worries me.

PP here who you quoted.

This makes good sense to me.

I just had lunch last week with a friend I've known for 40 yrs. He is a name DC lawyer you might recognize (from clients he's represented, media quotes & appearances, etc.), though from a small firm that he's deliberately kept small over the years.

We talked about the Weil Gotshal move in the context of his own restructuring in which he realigned his associates (4-6?) as independent contractors because his fixed costs (their salaries) were eating up all the profits on the fees he brought in (they brought in little or no business). All were invited & welcome to stay on paid only for work done rather than a decent salary (20% higher than my top level GS-15 salary when I retired this yr.) even though they were not busy 100% of the time.

IOW ... I'd also advise my kids to look elsewhere unless they had a specific niche they were looking at and it was underserved. The BigLaw model is a complete mess now and will be for some time, even getting worse IMO (and my friend's).

The future of lawyering is bleak, IMO. So much (too much) of the professionalism under which I was raised/trained, and practiced for years, is gone, and I fear it's not coming back.

[Anonymous]

Since there seem to be senior attys on this thread -- I was "partner track" in biglaw (litigation) according to what they were telling me, didn't make it, was told I will never make it no matter what, and am struggling to find a job now -- as I'm too senior for other firms, gov't/inhouse hiring is terrible etc.

I find myself looking at those who are junior partners -- 2 to 10 yrs ahead of me and being insanely jealous, as I don't think they bring much more to the table than me and yet the firm chose to make ALL of them partner and stop making new ones when I came along, despite years of long hours, dedication, top reviews etc. All I can think is that these people are set and will make millions and I'm going to bounce around my whole life. Little good the last 10 yrs or my top degrees did for me. Any thoughts on getting over the bitterness and resentment in the face of failing at my goal and now being rejected 100s of times for other jobs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since there seem to be senior attys on this thread -- I was "partner track" in biglaw (litigation) according to what they were telling me, didn't make it, was told I will never make it no matter what, and am struggling to find a job now -- as I'm too senior for other firms, gov't/inhouse hiring is terrible etc.

I find myself looking at those who are junior partners -- 2 to 10 yrs ahead of me and being insanely jealous, as I don't think they bring much more to the table than me and yet the firm chose to make ALL of them partner and stop making new ones when I came along, despite years of long hours, dedication, top reviews etc. All I can think is that these people are set and will make millions and I'm going to bounce around my whole life. Little good the last 10 yrs or my top degrees did for me. Any thoughts on getting over the bitterness and resentment in the face of failing at my goal and now being rejected 100s of times for other jobs?

Have you been told to find a new job either directly or indirectly? It seems to me that more people are remaining at firms after not making partner (i.e., they become permanent counsels, etc.).