Did you redshirt your August girl? Why or why not?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There's always going to be SOME cutoff date because our society has arbitrary rules like that. Everyone is eligible to drink at 21 despite significantly varying levels of maturity at that age. Everyone has to obey the same speed limits despite dramatically different levels of driving skill and reaction time. On and on.

So yes, in theory if cutoff date is 9/30 there are going to be a handful of kids in September or August who should ideally wait and go with following cohort because they are developmentally not ready. And vice-versa there's going to be some October and November kids who probably would have been best served to have enrolled a year earlier rather because they WERE developmentally ready, rather than waiting just because they missed some semi-arbitrary cutoff by a few weeks. But that's not how our society operates, by and large, we have one-size-fits-all rules and just deal with it.

No matter the cutoff date, there's always going to be kids on either side of the cusp... and the vast majority of those kids would be perfectly fine with EITHER cohort. So unless there's a strong, compelling reason to redshirt (or enroll early), it seems to me just stick with the program. FWIW, I've got a September 2yo DD and at this stage have seen no developmental shortcomings that would compel us to redshirt, so plan is to enroll on time but continue to monitor in case anything changes dramatically in her development (seems unlikely, but you never know).

Here is my experience. I also had a two year old DD with tan end of August birthday who was meeting all milestones. She spoke earlier than most, had lots of friends, etc. She was not speaking English much/at all, but was speaking two other languages very well. We enrolled her into DCPS PK3 and she started school a few days before turning 3. She was in a mixed age class (PK3 and PK4). Obviously she was the youngest (by 3 months), the most immature and the one with the worst English. She hated it. We spent 1 year trying to have her like school and tried everything and failed. She was doing fine “academically” and picked up English quickly, but the problem was that the 4 and older 3 year old girls did not want to play with her and excluded her. She just wasn’t able to keep up and was said and crying a lot. The teacher was a good guy, but he had to take care of 16 other kids some of which were getting into “fights” and had other issues. As a result, nobody paid attention to my little girl who was just quietly crying in the corner. It broke my heart and decided never more. She started not sleeping at night, wetting her bed (she was fully pottyvtranined by 2), biting her nails, etc.
The following year she was in a private part time o reschool where the oldest kid was 4 months older than her and the youngest was 2 months younger than her. She blossomed there. She was again happy and loving school. Stopped peeing at night, stopped waking up Witt nightmares, stopped biting her nails, etc. after a great year at this preschool I was faced with the decision of pulling her out to start K somewhere else or keep her there with all her friends (all redshirted except for the September and October birthdays). I chose to keep her in preschool another year and start K when she was about to turn 6. She still is sensitive, too nice and does not stand up for her self. She is slowly getting better, but why (given that I have the choice) would I want to put her in a class where everyone else is older and where she may not be happy again? What horrible mother would I be?
No, she will be a little older instead of younger. If when in middle school she asks why I did not send her when I was supposed to, I will tell her the truth and that for kids with birthdays around the cutoff parents can chose and we chose to have her be the oldest instead of the youngest

This is an issue of school choice and the school not working for the child vs. the child. Its also an issue if child was not speaking English.

I don't know-- my little sister, who spoke fine English in K, had a similar experience. My parents were worried about making the social isolation worse by holding her back in the same school (and having that stigma), but we couldn't afford private school, so she stayed on grade level. She never blossomed socially and while she's academically capable, her anxiety makes it hard for her to perform at high levels. It took her 6.5 years to earn a 4yr degree (full time student) and now works in a job that doesn't even require a degree. I know she had different aspirations for herself, and it's hard watching her struggle as an adult.

Maybe if you can afford tons of out of school tutoring, a coach for executive functioning skills, other after school activities to help your child find a place to find confidence and excel, redshirting isn't needed. But if either of my kids had August birthdays and didn't seem ready for K, I would hold them back in a heartbeat. It's correlation not necessarily causation, I know, but of 4 siblings the only one who struggled is the one that should have been held back.

I think the part about correlation not equaling causation is key. The anxiety you describe may have onset around the same time as the early-ish start in kindergarten, but it wasn't necessarily caused by it. I think it's natural for us to notice negative events/outcomes, and then look back for things that were proximal, and to think they're causal--similar to vaccines and autism ("My child got her set of shots and after that started having problems socially--she was fine before vaccines, therefore I'm anti-vaxx" etc.).

It is quite possible she would have experienced problems with anxiety even if she stayed back a year, especially it runs in the family, and especially if the anxiety went untreated. I don't know if anyone can say for sure either way.

I am the PP with the DD that did not speak much English in PK3 and we decided to redshirt in private preschool. I agree with you that in PP’s sister case we don’t know. She might have done better had she waited a year or maybe not much would have changed. In my Dd’s Case however the change was huge. She was just happier and relaxed around kids her age than she were around kids that were much older. My DD has a horrible year. Would she have adjusted? Maybe. At what cost? Unknown. The point is that I am not willing to wait and see what happens when my DD’s life is at stake. She is happier and just better in general among kids her age or younger.... why would I put her in a class where everyone else is older often by more than 12 months? Why? Because someone has to be the younger? Well that won’t be my DD.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Omg, another epic post where people weigh in with vehement opinions on other people’s lives.
So pathetic!

It's really only the anti-redshirt posters who fall into that bucket. Though they do tend to pitch a fit when their hypocrisy is observed and commented on.

“I didn’t redshirt, though.”

It’s so odd for anyone in general to be rabidly pro redshirting. One of my BFFs has a child who is the literal youngest in an insanely competitive school. And they didn’t opt for it. There are other ways to go about life.

People aren't rabidly pro-redshirting. What they are want, at most, is a proocess where there aren't rigid cutoffs and there is greater parental discretion. It's the anti-redshirts that are rabid on DCUM, all without any real evidence to back their positions.

I didn't redshirt. But I find the topic interesting, and follow the discussions, such as they are.

There are no rabid pro redshirters bc the red-shirting parents don’t want everyone to redshirt. Then they’d be in the same boat as if they didn’t redshirt their kid.

+1

Despite what they claim, this is all absolutely about having their child be one of the strongest (or at least not the weakest), relatively speaking. They cheat to try to ensure that there will always be kids below their own. It’s disgusting.

I do wonder what would happen if everyone held their child back. Would these parents hold back their child another year? Would we have 7/8 year olds in Ker?

There is an interesting data point on this that came out of the large Dutch ADHD study. That study was the only large one that did not replicate the link to relative age and ADHD. What is interesting about that is that Dutch parents have more leeway in when their kids enter school. After I read the study, I was interested in that, and so read about it. Essentially, the judgment of Dutch parents is trusted with respect to their children's maturity levels. They can hold back if they feel it's appropriate. There's a greater age range in the classroom, but it's about a year versus 18 months. No, you don't end up with kids who are much older because many parents send their kids "early" as well. But what you do avoid are some of the maturity issues causing many issues in the classroom. Sometimes I wonder if the people who want to be extremely rigid about cutoff don't trust their own judgment as parents, and therefore don't want to trust anyone else's judgment. They want bright-line rules because they don't want parental judgment entering the picture.

Anyhow, maybe read a bit about the Dutch ADHD study and that educational system. It's interesting.

[Anonymous]

What's the purpose of holding a child back a year if they turn 5 before the school year starts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read all of this thread but I am a woman who was essentially red-shirted. I missed the school cutoff by a few days. Where I grew up, most parents with kids in my position sent their kid to private school for one year, and then switched them back to public so they could start "on time." My parents did not. I was always on the old range for my classes, and when I grew up and went to an elite college (actually elite, HYPS) I was significantly older than many of my classmates who were "advanced" for their ages. I'm a full 18 months older than some of my college classmates. I wish now that my parents had started me on time. In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal, but just adding that to this convo if it hasn't been said already.

How old were you when you graduated HS?

At my top 10 college we had a wide range of ages -- people who skipped 1-2 years of school, people who took a gap year. Different states had different cut-off months. It didn't seem like a big deal at all and I was one of the youngest.

I was 18 and a half. It was weird to start college with people who had just turned 17. Like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. But didn't seem like this perspective had been offered.

If they had just turned 17 when they started college then they skipped a year at some point. So they were also outliers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read all of this thread but I am a woman who was essentially red-shirted. I missed the school cutoff by a few days. Where I grew up, most parents with kids in my position sent their kid to private school for one year, and then switched them back to public so they could start "on time." My parents did not. I was always on the old range for my classes, and when I grew up and went to an elite college (actually elite, HYPS) I was significantly older than many of my classmates who were "advanced" for their ages. I'm a full 18 months older than some of my college classmates. I wish now that my parents had started me on time. In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal, but just adding that to this convo if it hasn't been said already.

How old were you when you graduated HS?

At my top 10 college we had a wide range of ages -- people who skipped 1-2 years of school, people who took a gap year. Different states had different cut-off months. It didn't seem like a big deal at all and I was one of the youngest.

I was 18 and a half. It was weird to start college with people who had just turned 17. Like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. But didn't seem like this perspective had been offered.

If they had just turned 17 when they started college then they skipped a year at some point. So they were also outliers.

I started college at 19 (May birthday) because I went to high school in a country where there are 5 years in high school and students graduate as older 18 year olds or new 19 year olds. Never felt older. There were plenty of older kids in my classes and I hang out with some sophomore and juniors too. I am not sure she is ever an issue (unless you start college at 25-30)

[Anonymous]

I was 18 and a half. It was weird to start college with people who had just turned 17. Like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. But didn't seem like this perspective had been offered.

This is really dependent on where you live. I grew up in Texas and our cutoff has always been September 1st. You used to be able to argue to skip a year with a September birthday, but they are draconian now.

I have a November birthday and turned 19 in my freshman year of college. Anyone turning 18 in our freshman year would have been an outlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read all of this thread but I am a woman who was essentially red-shirted. I missed the school cutoff by a few days. Where I grew up, most parents with kids in my position sent their kid to private school for one year, and then switched them back to public so they could start "on time." My parents did not. I was always on the old range for my classes, and when I grew up and went to an elite college (actually elite, HYPS) I was significantly older than many of my classmates who were "advanced" for their ages. I'm a full 18 months older than some of my college classmates. I wish now that my parents had started me on time. In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal, but just adding that to this convo if it hasn't been said already.

How old were you when you graduated HS?

At my top 10 college we had a wide range of ages -- people who skipped 1-2 years of school, people who took a gap year. Different states had different cut-off months. It didn't seem like a big deal at all and I was one of the youngest.

I was 18 and a half. It was weird to start college with people who had just turned 17. Like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. But didn't seem like this perspective had been offered.

If they had just turned 17 when they started college then they skipped a year at some point. So they were also outliers.

My son will turn 18 two or three weeks after he starts college. To me, that is the normal age and it makes no sense to have him start senior year at 18, college basically at 19.

I don't get why you'd hold a child back. Work with your kids and prepare them. (and yes, I have a child with SN/delays and that is no excuse and if anything they should go, especially for parents who do no outside therapies and only use the school system - if you are not doing outside therapies and can afford them, then your kid cannot be that bad off or as a good parent you'd do more for them to help them).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read all of this thread but I am a woman who was essentially red-shirted. I missed the school cutoff by a few days. Where I grew up, most parents with kids in my position sent their kid to private school for one year, and then switched them back to public so they could start "on time." My parents did not. I was always on the old range for my classes, and when I grew up and went to an elite college (actually elite, HYPS) I was significantly older than many of my classmates who were "advanced" for their ages. I'm a full 18 months older than some of my college classmates. I wish now that my parents had started me on time. In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal, but just adding that to this convo if it hasn't been said already.

How old were you when you graduated HS?

At my top 10 college we had a wide range of ages -- people who skipped 1-2 years of school, people who took a gap year. Different states had different cut-off months. It didn't seem like a big deal at all and I was one of the youngest.

I was 18 and a half. It was weird to start college with people who had just turned 17. Like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. But didn't seem like this perspective had been offered.

If they had just turned 17 when they started college then they skipped a year at some point. So they were also outliers.

My son will turn 18 two or three weeks after he starts college. To me, that is the normal age and it makes no sense to have him start senior year at 18, college basically at 19.

I don't get why you'd hold a child back. Work with your kids and prepare them. (and yes, I have a child with SN/delays and that is no excuse and if anything they should go, especially for parents who do no outside therapies and only use the school system - if you are not doing outside therapies and can afford them, then your kid cannot be that bad off or as a good parent you'd do more for them to help them).

So...don’t do it. No one is forcing you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the purpose of holding a child back a year if they turn 5 before the school year starts?

Ask all the DC area parents and listen to them lie in response!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read all of this thread but I am a woman who was essentially red-shirted. I missed the school cutoff by a few days. Where I grew up, most parents with kids in my position sent their kid to private school for one year, and then switched them back to public so they could start "on time." My parents did not. I was always on the old range for my classes, and when I grew up and went to an elite college (actually elite, HYPS) I was significantly older than many of my classmates who were "advanced" for their ages. I'm a full 18 months older than some of my college classmates. I wish now that my parents had started me on time. In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal, but just adding that to this convo if it hasn't been said already.

How old were you when you graduated HS?

At my top 10 college we had a wide range of ages -- people who skipped 1-2 years of school, people who took a gap year. Different states had different cut-off months. It didn't seem like a big deal at all and I was one of the youngest.

I was 18 and a half. It was weird to start college with people who had just turned 17. Like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. But didn't seem like this perspective had been offered.

So you were 5 when you started K and turned 6 a few months later (Nov-Dec)? You really consider that red-shirting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the purpose of holding a child back a year if they turn 5 before the school year starts?

Ask all the DC area parents and listen to them lie in response!

Where are you from? No redshirting there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the purpose of holding a child back a year if they turn 5 before the school year starts?

Ask all the DC area parents and listen to them lie in response!

Where are you from? No redshirting there?

DP. I’m in NYC and there is absolutely no redshirting in publics. There is also no “reporting” or rattling on suspected residency fraud, so it’s enlightening to read about DC practices - I used to live in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the purpose of holding a child back a year if they turn 5 before the school year starts?

Ask all the DC area parents and listen to them lie in response!

Where are you from? No redshirting there?

DP. I’m in NYC and there is absolutely no redshirting in publics. There is also no “reporting” or rattling on suspected residency fraud, so it’s enlightening to read about DC practices - I used to live in DC.

Cool, well then enjoy NYC. This is a DC forum so everything is different here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the purpose of holding a child back a year if they turn 5 before the school year starts?

Ask all the DC area parents and listen to them lie in response!

Where are you from? No redshirting there?

DP. I’m in NYC and there is absolutely no redshirting in publics. There is also no “reporting” or rattling on suspected residency fraud, so it’s enlightening to read about DC practices - I used to live in DC.

Cool, well then enjoy NYC. This is a DC forum so everything is different here.

Maybe you can calm down, sweetheart. Namaste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the purpose of holding a child back a year if they turn 5 before the school year starts?

Ask all the DC area parents and listen to them lie in response!

Where are you from? No redshirting there?

DP. I’m in NYC and there is absolutely no redshirting in publics. There is also no “reporting” or rattling on suspected residency fraud, so it’s enlightening to read about DC practices - I used to live in DC.

Cool, well then enjoy NYC. This is a DC forum so everything is different here.

Maybe you can calm down, sweetheart. Namaste.

No clue what about that wasn’t “calm” but ok.