Earning Well but Drowning in Debt...how to dig out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The $8k after one of the pregnancies could have been therapy for PPD pre-ACA, when mental health wasn't covered like physical health. At $100/session it can add up. Could have also been marital counseling, which is really spends.

That is speculating. It's also possible that OP had major surgery and was under a plan when she had to pay 15% or 20% of the costs after a certain amount. I recently had a very simple surgical procedure that lasted 45 minutes, but cost me close to $4k because Blue Cross Blue Shield Standard required that I pay 15%. Bills to surgeon. Bills to hospital. Bills to anesthesiologist. Bills to pathologist, etc., etc. I can definitely see how it's possible to have $8k in medical bills as a fed. if something isn't covered entirely.

I don't. Most plans cap out of pocket costs and exclude infertility (if it's covered). Our plan is 3k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The $8k after one of the pregnancies could have been therapy for PPD pre-ACA, when mental health wasn't covered like physical health. At $100/session it can add up. Could have also been marital counseling, which is really spends.

That is speculating. It's also possible that OP had major surgery and was under a plan when she had to pay 15% or 20% of the costs after a certain amount. I recently had a very simple surgical procedure that lasted 45 minutes, but cost me close to $4k because Blue Cross Blue Shield Standard required that I pay 15%. Bills to surgeon. Bills to hospital. Bills to anesthesiologist. Bills to pathologist, etc., etc. I can definitely see how it's possible to have $8k in medical bills as a fed. if something isn't covered entirely.

I don't. Most plans cap out of pocket costs and exclude infertility (if it's covered). Our plan is 3k.

I am a fed and mine is capped out at $6k, so not too much below OP. And if certain things aren't covered, e.g., out of network specialists or physical therapy or any kind of mental health, it's easy to hit $8k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The $8k after one of the pregnancies could have been therapy for PPD pre-ACA, when mental health wasn't covered like physical health. At $100/session it can add up. Could have also been marital counseling, which is really spends.

That is speculating. It's also possible that OP had major surgery and was under a plan when she had to pay 15% or 20% of the costs after a certain amount. I recently had a very simple surgical procedure that lasted 45 minutes, but cost me close to $4k because Blue Cross Blue Shield Standard required that I pay 15%. Bills to surgeon. Bills to hospital. Bills to anesthesiologist. Bills to pathologist, etc., etc. I can definitely see how it's possible to have $8k in medical bills as a fed. if something isn't covered entirely.

Of course it's speculating. I was answering a PP's question about how she could have those expenses under a Fed plan. You're also speculating, and offered another reason why she could have those bills.

[Anonymous]

How is an upper elementary school age child still in a car seat?
I'm thinking 3-5th grade is upper elementary.
They really are still in car seats?
My kindergartener is in a booster.

Sorry to derail but I don't get this.

Also OP said initially they were both lobbyist and now she is saying they don't want to be law school partners, so they are both attorneys now?
I'm wondering if the response say she was OP was really OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am really truly baffled and disgusted by the people on here who couldn't say anything more than "you shouldn't have had three kids" or who presume to think we are these upper class wannabees who get 6 year car loans, wear fancy name brand clothes, send our kids to Smithsonian camps, live in some mcmansion we cannot afford in Mclean, and try to keep up with the Joneses. What a bunch of self-righteous mean spirited people! I came on here asking for helpful advice. The shoulda-coulda-woulda bullsh!t just isn't helpful.

Anyone who knows us and sees our lifestyle would never ever make such judgments. Our house is extremely modest and too small for a family of 5, we are the butt of many family jokes, and actually have relatives who won't even visit/stay with us because there is nowhere for them to sleep. We deal with that and don't care, but we are not in a huge unaffordable home. Our rowhouse would probably cost $250k almost anywhere else. Here, it's over $700k. We have done well with our home, and will not sell it to move into a cramped 2 bedroom apartment with three kids. we realize we will be here for a while until we can dig partway out of debt. We drive Hondas for goodness sake, and they are 2012 and 2013, so almost paid off. They are not financed under 6 year loans. I didn't even know there was such a thing.

I do appreciate the advice I got on how to trim back expenses, as well as the recommendations to look at David Ramsey, Michelle, and other experts who will motivate.

I do have a child who is musically gifted. He is not in Kindergarten as other posters have alluded to, but is in older grade in elementary school. It is not some bragging right for us wannabees to flaunt. He has been flagged as gifted by his school, and is playing his chosen instrument at a pre-professional level at a very young age, with just a couple years of training. Elementary school band/orchestra doesn't cut it at this point. Sorry to disappoint you naysayers. We are doing our best to support him. My middle child is graduating form prek and starting K next fall, and my youngest is 3 and has two more years of daycare. That explains the need for two summer camps this summer, and two daycares now. It also explains the need for three carseats/boosters. All three kids still need carseats. We have two dogs as well, so driving a yaris just won't work for our family. We will hopefully have a financial break when DC2 is out of daycare, and can push that toward paying off the loans.

We are both feds and do have job security. We also are highly paid feds (if there is such a thing). We could make more in the private sector, but are not certain we want to sacrifice the job security and long hours. Neither DH nor I have a grand desire to be partners at a law firm and to have that lifestyle (again, we are not the wannabe mclean mcmansion types). We enjoy being parents, our family, and spending time with our kids.

As for camps, I agree that Smithsonian camps are too expensive. Prohibitively so for us. I was using that as an example. We have not yet sent any of our kids to smithsonian camps. We have done local camps through the county and also ymca, and we are planning to do a music camp for DC1 this summer. Even the county/YMCA camps are over $350/week including aftercare. For two kids that's $700/week For cheap camp. We are looking into finding a babysitter instead or sending kids to grandparents further south for part of the summer to help save some money.

We are planning to cash out part of our emergency fund to pay off the CC debt. That will make us feel better and also eliminate the high interest. That has been overwhelming. Was it foolish to use CC for grad school and some maternity leave issues? Yes. I also had some serious medical issues after maternity leave with one pregnancy and had A LOT of medical bills to pay off, e.g., over $8k. That sucked.

Again, I want to thank those of you who provided helpful and productive suggestions. Some extreme. Some not. For those of you who could do nothing but make fun of someone who is trying to get out of the hole... Karma.

How did you have 8k in medical bills as a fed? I'm unaware of any plan with that high of an out of pocket max. Do you mean infertility related bills?

I don't think people are being unreasonable to attribute your choice to have three kids as a source of your problems. How could you not? You're saying you need these camps, your house is crowded, you need cars to fit the kids, etc. you took Unpaid leave three times. Seems like the kids really are why you are struggling.

If you have 200k in student loans I think it's a bit unwise to insist on staying a fed. Someone needs to make more money to pay off these loans.

Holy moly. Dh and I considered having a 3rd child and we made way less than Op and her husband make. We opted not to have a 3rd but if we did have a 3rd child I just do not seeing our budget devolving into this kind of massive debt. On the bright side...they almost have their two cars paid off, they have one child in school and one child almost in school, they have grandparents that can help out with babysitting over the summer. They can turn things around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Not looking for a scolding but for advice. Ran up a lot of credit card debt on three maternity leaves that were largely unpaid - hard to pay daycare for two kids while on unpaid leave with a third. And we had to do that or else we would lose our spots. Plus the student loan debt. We have two Hondas 2012 and 2013. Minivan and SUV. Before that I was driving a 2001 Toyota that wouldn't fit three carsears so I had to sell it. Had it over 10 years. We cannot go down to one car because due to our work schedules DH and I alternate drop off and pickup from daycare and aftercare. We do not live in a huge home. In fact, we need a bigger house desperately. Our kids are doubled up in rooms and we are bursting at the seams. Same rowhouse we lived in when we got engaged! Mortgage is $3400/month. Student loans are $1500/month. Credit card bills. Car payments. Daycare and aftercare is $2450/month. We cannot get a nanny for an equivalent price (legally, anyway). I am a fed and the lack of pay increases hasn't helped. But at least job is stable. We do not take luxury vacations and rent expensive homes or take fancy trips. We go to the beach and stay with family. I hardly ever buy clothes and when I do it's at Target/TJ Max or even eBay. I buy kids clothes on eBay or at Target or old navy sale.

The thing is that we definitely aren't living the high life by any means. Our home is very modest and not suitable for the size of our family. Our vacations are budget vacations. Now I am dreading having to pay for summer camps for the older two kids. $450/week per kid for 10 weeks. Ugh.

The kids do a lot of activities. Music together. dance lessons. Soccer. Music lessons.

Op this is the quote people are responding to.

You were still saying here that your kids are in four activities (4!!) and planning on paying $450 for summer camp ("I'm dreading having to pay for it for 3 kids, ugh" or something like that, phrased that you were going to be doing it for 3 kids). Plus continuing to say how your home is not suitable.

Many of us are responding because you have your head in the clouds worrying about the suitable size of your home and paying for 4 activities in the same breath that you acknowledge $300k in credit car/student loan debt.

Your last response backs away and now you are claiming you have no intention of doing this, but less than 24 hours ago you were. So the indignation is not really appropriate, this is what you wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The $8k after one of the pregnancies could have been therapy for PPD pre-ACA, when mental health wasn't covered like physical health. At $100/session it can add up. Could have also been marital counseling, which is really spends.

That is speculating. It's also possible that OP had major surgery and was under a plan when she had to pay 15% or 20% of the costs after a certain amount. I recently had a very simple surgical procedure that lasted 45 minutes, but cost me close to $4k because Blue Cross Blue Shield Standard required that I pay 15%. Bills to surgeon. Bills to hospital. Bills to anesthesiologist. Bills to pathologist, etc., etc. I can definitely see how it's possible to have $8k in medical bills as a fed. if something isn't covered entirely.

Of course it's speculating. I was answering a PP's question about how she could have those expenses under a Fed plan. You're also speculating, and offered another reason why she could have those bills.

Op said she wracked up "a lot" of the debt in graduate school so the 8k was really a drop in the bucket and a legitimate expense. And if the $50k is from 3 maternity leaves ranging from a toddler to upper elementary school that is a TON of interest that has accrued even if the spread is only 5-6 years from oldest to youngest child. The 8k is the least of her concerns

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is an upper elementary school age child still in a car seat?
I'm thinking 3-5th grade is upper elementary.
They really are still in car seats?
My kindergartener is in a booster.

Sorry to derail but I don't get this.

Also OP said initially they were both lobbyist and now she is saying they don't want to be law school partners, so they are both attorneys now?
I'm wondering if the response say she was OP was really OP

Many lobbyists are lawyers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is an upper elementary school age child still in a car seat?
I'm thinking 3-5th grade is upper elementary.
They really are still in car seats?
My kindergartener is in a booster.

Sorry to derail but I don't get this.

Also OP said initially they were both lobbyist and now she is saying they don't want to be law school partners, so they are both attorneys now?
I'm wondering if the response say she was OP was really OP

Many lobbyists are lawyers.

I thought OP was a Fed, and her DH worked on the Hill. I assumed she's an attorney at an agency, and he is counsel to a committee, or maybe a policy person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is an upper elementary school age child still in a car seat?
I'm thinking 3-5th grade is upper elementary.
They really are still in car seats?
My kindergartener is in a booster.

Sorry to derail but I don't get this.

Also OP said initially they were both lobbyist and now she is saying they don't want to be law school partners, so they are both attorneys now?
I'm wondering if the response say she was OP was really OP

Many lobbyists are lawyers.

I thought OP was a Fed, and her DH worked on the Hill. I assumed she's an attorney at an agency, and he is counsel to a committee, or maybe a policy person.

op said they are both Feds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My bet is that OP went out and bought all 3 kids brand new boots, snow pants, jackets, mittens, hats, new sleds, new shovels just their size and blew $250 because it's snowing and the kids wanted to go outside for 15 minutes

Impossible to buy all of the above for 3 kids for $250.

Agreed, and for the record, my two have been outside for hours and hours. I have the dryer running non stop.not od wet into dry and repeat.

I'm certainly not going to hate on patents who want to warmly clothe their children.

You can warmly clothe your child for much less. I got snow pants for $5 and boots for $3 at a consignment sale. I think that was pp's point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is an upper elementary school age child still in a car seat?
I'm thinking 3-5th grade is upper elementary.
They really are still in car seats?
My kindergartener is in a booster.

Sorry to derail but I don't get this.

Also OP said initially they were both lobbyist and now she is saying they don't want to be law school partners, so they are both attorneys now?
I'm wondering if the response say she was OP was really OP

Many lobbyists are lawyers.

I thought OP was a Fed, and her DH worked on the Hill. I assumed she's an attorney at an agency, and he is counsel to a committee, or maybe a policy person.

op said they are both Feds.

No, OP said "I am a fed and DH also works on the Hill." First post, page 4.

[Anonymous]

OP we make half as much as you do. We save a lot of money by getting hand me downs or buying on consignment. I really cannot fathom buying new clothes as they grow out of them so quickly. I'm not sure if that really applies to you as much since your kids might already be sharing but just something to keep in mind.

Also I have in my head that I don't really ¨deserve¨much and don't use that as an excuse to go out to eat. We maybe go out to eat once every two months (when we lived in the city we went out 3 times a week. You get used to the eating at home lifestyle). A family of five is minimum $50 a meal if you all have water (unless you are doing the fast food route). Stop going out to eat; you will REALLY save a lot. No babysitters for a night out either.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I'm a lobbyist. As a Hill staffer he is topping out at 165ish, and my guess is his pay a bit less based on HHI. If he goes with a company the salary is 180-200k, but the bonuses are usually pretty good (around 100k). The travel is often rough, but the pay is ok.

Yes but later on she says she is a lobbyist and he is a Hill staffer.

I call troll on the person claiming to be OP on the last page!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My bet is that OP went out and bought all 3 kids brand new boots, snow pants, jackets, mittens, hats, new sleds, new shovels just their size and blew $250 because it's snowing and the kids wanted to go outside for 15 minutes

Impossible to buy all of the above for 3 kids for $250.

Agreed, and for the record, my two have been outside for hours and hours. I have the dryer running non stop.not od wet into dry and repeat.

I'm certainly not going to hate on patents who want to warmly clothe their children.

You can warmly clothe your child for much less. I got snow pants for $5 and boots for $3 at a consignment sale. I think that was pp's point.

Get those bargains at a consignment sale/thrift store requires:
1) Being there when the store's open (they often close @ 5)
2) Happening to see something in your kids' sizes -- you won't go 3-for-3, but maybe 1-for-3 and 2-for-3. So then there's 2-3 trips to different stores
3) Beating out Everyone Else for the stuff in your desired sizes and that isn't horribly inappropriate for whatever reason (e.g. something from 1985).

Maybe doable for a SAHM with a preschooler or whose kids are all in school. But a woman working 40+ hours a week is supposed to do her consignment/thrift shopping when, exactly? I hardly think most dual-income families want to spend their weekends combing over thrift stores.

This is something where the time spent looking for bargains can really add up.