Alexandria on the Cusp of Eliminating All SFH Zoning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does this mean granny flats allowed?

Yes. And that's reallly the true intent of most of the people backing the SFH zoning chnages. They want to built an ADU, not a fourplex.

This is such BS. It’s not about “granny flats.” (A soothing sounding term invented for ADUs. Once legalised, the development industry then seeks to change zoning so that ADUs can be built a large as many houses and owned by investors, not owner-occupants. They are proposing this in DC).

This is about allowing apartment and condo buildings as a matter of right everywhere.

I don't live in Alexandria, but I don't have a problem with that. It's ridiculous that in large parts of every locality, the only permitted housing type is a detached house, intended for a small nuclear family, with a yard. The most expensive housing type for people, the most costly housing type for localities in terms of services, the most inefficient land use in terms of housing. Yet it must be protected from pollution by multi-unit housing (and the people who live in multi-unit housing)!!!!!!! Because ... well I'm not sure why. Sewer capacity, or something.

Me either! Because it actually means allowing Four unit apartment and condo buildings that take up no more space than a SFH otherwise would have.

Well done Alexandria. Proud of us.

Now try finding a place to park on the street, because that 4 unit building won't come with any.

And as has been noted here multiple times, they will still be $1M plus units. So any talk of "now we'll have affordable housing in Alexandria" is pure crap.

It will come with two required off-street parking spaces.

[Anonymous]

Do you live here? I have zero sewer issues, but there are serious issues with traffic and overcrowding in the schools. Until those two issues are addressed, I don't think we need to bring additional people in, no matter who they are. Once the issues above are addressed, I'm happy to have more people come in, regardless of who they are or what type of unit they live in.


Well, you certainly don't live in Del Ray where the sewers flood the streets anytime there is a thunderstorm. And Del Ray will be ground zero for changing 3 bed 2 bath bungalows into 16 bedroom monstrosities. Surely that will have no impact on sewer strain.

I don't but understand that it is an issue there. My neighbors in Rosemont have sewer issues, but for reasons unclear to me, our home consistently has not, even when nearby homes do. However, my son cannot get to his locker at school because the hallways are so crowded, and my daughter has not even been assigned a locker because there are none to be had - you need to have a special reason to request one because they are so limited vs. the number of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

The parking requirements go away within a 1/2 mile on transit, which is not just metro. That’s where a lot of properties will be developed.

Also, again, this is phase 1. Phase two will allow multi family housing in former SFZ to be built on a larger scale than the SFHs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1-4 unit is all treated the same by Fannie/Freddie for purposes of underwriting the property, extensions of credit, downpayment requirement, PMI, etc. It's technically not "multifamily" until its 5+ housing units.

My prediction is that the zoning change will enable construction of townhouses on SFH plots. That will be the vast majority of the permits.

Townhouses are single-family housing.

Also, generally, a row of two townhouses is referred to as a duplex.

Not unless the lot is subdivided and each TH has its own deeded lot. Otherwise these duplexes are treated as condos. And many developers build condo duplexes on land where they cannot subdivide the lot and build separate SFH. A duplex is NOT a SFH. You can think of it that way, but that doesn't make it true in the industry, legally or in practice. The TH must have its own separate tax lot.

A duplex is a single-family house attached to another single-family house. Townhouses are a series of single-family houses attached to each other.

please take real property law class. Die mad that you don't understand the differences I guess.

BTW, all that will be built are super expensive THs (whether in subdivided lots or as duplex condos on one lot), for example link the ones at Commonwealth and E Alexandria done precovid, the ones being currently built on Commonwealth across from the library mentioned upthread, the ones built off of Mt Vernon near the car dealership. That's where the $$$$ is. Too many people with too much money want to live in Alexandria and will pay for these types of TH. Developers do NOT want to be landlords, especially to low and middle income tenants. Sure there are some 501(c)(3) entities that will use tax exempt public financing assistance to build low and middle income housing, but there aren't many, the process is super complicated and arduous, and then you have to be a landlord on an ongoing basis. Aa for TH and condo projects for home ownership (like Henson Ridge) those are even more complicated. That's not going to happen. Developers want the most bang for their buck in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of responsibility.

Yes, I do have urban planning, public/affordable housing and public finance experience (20 years of it). This is exactly what will happen. Everyone has been punked.

I hope this is the case. Duplexes do not bother me as much as 4-6 plexes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

The parking requirements go away within a 1/2 mile on transit, which is not just metro. That’s where a lot of properties will be developed.

Also, again, this is phase 1. Phase two will allow multi family housing in former SFZ to be built on a larger scale than the SFHs.

How many off-street parking spots are the existing detached one-household houses required to have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

The parking requirements go away within a 1/2 mile on transit, which is not just metro. That’s where a lot of properties will be developed.

Also, again, this is phase 1. Phase two will allow multi family housing in former SFZ to be built on a larger scale than the SFHs.

How many off-street parking spots are the existing detached one-household houses required to have?

No idea, the zoning codes are online.

I am just pointing out that some posters and articles are stating things definitively that are more nuanced under the actual proposals. And fail to address phase 2.

[Anonymous]

They were very clear last night that phase 2 will not be anything major beyond this and/or not before the election.

You can exhale, panic brigade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

Then why do it at all? Argument cuts both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They were very clear last night that phase 2 will not be anything major beyond this and/or not before the election.

You can exhale, panic brigade.

I mean, it’s depends on your definition of major. He stated he Phase 1 did not go far enough but that Phase 2 would address those concerns. Maybe he didn’t say it last night, but he said it.

Phase 2 planning starts next year. Maybe the vote won’t be before the election, but this time around we only had a few months between the proposals and the vote.

First you tell people this was planned for years and they weren’t paying enough attention. Now that it has their attention, they should ignore what is going to happen until after it happens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

Then why do it at all? Argument cuts both ways.

No, it doesn't. PP's argument is: "This will not lead to a huge change overnight, so people shouldn't panic about a huge change overnight." Your argument is: "Well, in that case, why do anything at all?" But that doesn't follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

Then why do it at all? Argument cuts both ways.

Small impact/small benefit is just as with doing as big impact/big benefit

It just isn’t the breakthrough sea change moment that many YIMBYS think. Nor is it the sky is falling disaster that many NIMBYS think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

Then why do it at all? Argument cuts both ways.

Small impact/small benefit is just as with doing as big impact/big benefit

It just isn’t the breakthrough sea change moment that many YIMBYS think. Nor is it the sky is falling disaster that many NIMBYS think.

It will feel like a disaster to people who suddenly live next door to some ridiculous building towering over their house.

But, no, otherwise this will make no difference to prices or anything like that. Housing is expensive here not because of zoning laws or mean old NIMBYs, but because there is a huge number of very wealthy people who can pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

Then why do it at all? Argument cuts both ways.

Small impact/small benefit is just as with doing as big impact/big benefit

It just isn’t the breakthrough sea change moment that many YIMBYS think. Nor is it the sky is falling disaster that many NIMBYS think.

It will feel like a disaster to people who suddenly live next door to some ridiculous building towering over their house.

But, no, otherwise this will make no difference to prices or anything like that. Housing is expensive here not because of zoning laws or mean old NIMBYs, but because there is a huge number of very wealthy people who can pay.

A multi-unit building that is the same height as a single-unit building will not "tower over" the single-unit building because it is the same height as the single-unit building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

The parking requirements go away within a 1/2 mile on transit, which is not just metro. That’s where a lot of properties will be developed.

Also, again, this is phase 1. Phase two will allow multi family housing in former SFZ to be built on a larger scale than the SFHs.

Wait a second- the builders can have fewer spaces but the street parking will still be zoned, right? Please God tell me Council just didn't invite all of Maryland to drive to Rosemont, park, and hop on the metro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to really relax about how a big a deal this is.

"Alexandria’s effort was less ambitious — at its most expansive, it allows for four-unit buildings rather than six-unit buildings — and it will affect fewer neighborhoods because much of the city is already zoned to include townhouses and tall apartment towers."
"The new policy is expected to lead to the redevelopment of about 66 properties and add 150 to 178 units over the next decade, according to estimates from Alexandria city planners."
"One- and two-unit buildings will be required to have at least one off-street parking spot and three- and four-unit buildings will be required to have at least two spots."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/11/29/alexandria-single-family-zoning-housing-vote/

The parking requirements go away within a 1/2 mile on transit, which is not just metro. That’s where a lot of properties will be developed.

Also, again, this is phase 1. Phase two will allow multi family housing in former SFZ to be built on a larger scale than the SFHs.

Wait a second- the builders can have fewer spaces but the street parking will still be zoned, right? Please God tell me Council just didn't invite all of Maryland to drive to Rosemont, park, and hop on the metro.

I live in Rosemont. People already do that. Parking enforcement is nonexistent. Construction companies even store their equipment and trucks on Russell and Commonwealth overnight and weekends. The city doesn’t care.