APS black student singled out to play cotton picking game

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:May God give me (or better yet someone else) the strength to call out the BS on AEM right now.

There's no point arguing with a person who thinks it is hurtful to black children to make "snowmen" by pasting cotton balls onto construction paper

DP. I went back and re-read the post. I think the no cotton balls at school/chalk snowman poster was being sarcastic (she used a facepalm emoji). But I’m sure there are people in that group who think cotton should be banned from schools.

I remember when I first joined I tried to engage in rationale conversation and quickly one of the totally out there posters basically implied I was racist and told me I needed to listen to a podcast. That’s when I realized the entire group is an echo chamber of a few crazies who get off on making crazy allegations against anyone who has even a moderate difference in opinion.

Yeah, no. She was serious. Look at her other posts and likes on the thread. The facepalm was to indicate her shock that people in this day and age would use cotton balls even in an art project. That poster openly solicits Simone's approval and goes overboard trying to show how progressive and anti-racist she is.

+1000

She wasn't kidding about not using the cotton balls.

I don't agree with a ban on cotton balls but I can certainly see why a teacher would not want to go there.

Really? cotton bolls, maybe, but cotton balls wouldn't even cross my mind, and I have done plenty of anti-racist training and thinking.

I also think its ridiculous because there are plenty of kids at Gunston that have been through real trauma and are likely (inadvertently) exposed to triggers at school that would never occur to anyone to be sensitive about. There are kids who were smuggled into the US or came here on foot from El Salvador to escape drug gangs, there are kids who are refugees from civil wars in Sudan and Syria, there are kids in the foster system... They are certainly not thinking about complaining or suing the school because they played "capture the flag" or "dodge ball" in gym.

So much anti-racist training and still insensitive to the anti-Black racism systematically experienced by the descendants of black slaves in this country. SMH.
Typical white supremacist I guess.

We all get it that African Americans were unfathomably and inhumanely treated and used, etc etc etc. And we get that effects of slavery have endured. However, if an AA person today who is now generations removed from actual enslavement is truly "traumatized" by cotton balls, that person has other issues they need to address with a mental health professional. Resent history - and those to blame - all you want, rightfully so. But don't expect everyone to placate you with any and every possible six-degrees-of-separation you want to make with real trauma that never actually happened to you or your parents or likely your grandparents at this point. Stop diminishing the meaning of "trauma" and brutalizations and horrific situations that others are actually directly experiencing today. Am I to believe this kid would experience PTSD-like reactions at the sound of a horse whip? Something he's probably never once heard in his life?

Black kids know the history of what happened to their ancestors and yes the are still being traumatized through the current systemic racism and and white supremacy.
Admit it many white supremacist enjoy seeing Blacks victimized.

"Victimized" perhaps, but "being traumatized through system racism" they are not. They're only being traumatized by the adults who tell them they are/should be traumatized by things like stupid team-building games that happen to involve cotton balls. As in this case, the student himself indicated he was bothered in retrospect after thinking about it (ie, after telling his mother who was outraged and being told how insensitive and reprehensible the situation was). If he was actually traumatized by his experience, he would have immediately experienced the severe distress and suffered the traumatic reminder of the horrific experience of slavery done to his people and all the racism he has encountered in his life.

Well I happen to disagree. The boy will remember this for the rest of his life. He may be too young to have understood what was happening while it happens now. But he knows now. I don’t know about $10 million, but the school system needs to pay.

Because his parents chose to turn this into something it's not. Objectively, the incident was not about picking cotton in the fields like a slave. We don't know how the boy felt at first beyond that he described the incident to his parents (maybe he was confused and needed to check that this was or was not a racist incident), and then the parents went all in on the racism allegation. It's the parents who now claim their son is traumatized, and of course NOW he is! The teacher was offended at the accusation, and perhaps did not respond appropriately, and probably some kids expressed their disbelief that the game could have been viewed as racist, and now he's caught between his parents' perception of the incident, and everyone else's. The poor kid! I blame the parents for blowing this all out of proportion and inflicting avoidable harm on their own child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Procedural questions. My understanding is that the claim for $10 million came in the form of a settlement demand letter. Is a demand letter a requirement before an actual suit can be filed?

Usually not but depends on the claim. Certain statutes do have a requirement to submit a demand letter/notice ahead of time.

Is the figure outrageously high because the aggrieved party wants this to go to trial and they’re just checking a procedural box by making this type of absurd monetary settlement demand?

No, I don't think so. It's their starting point for negotiations. A high demand can be needed to get an organization's attention. Or it can be based on damages. Or someone can be greedy. I don't know the details of this situation, so can't say more.

I’m sure APS has in-house lawyers who will recommend how to proceed, but is there any action the school board will take approving / rejecting any proposed settlement?

They may negotiate a settlement or maybe they won't. I'm sure they are evaluating how to respond.

Is this all closed door business, or will the public be made aware of how they respond to the $10 million demand or if they offer to settle for a different amount?

The terms of settlement agreements are often confidential, it depends on what is agreed upon, but this is common.

Or if any counterclaims are asserted?

If a lawsuit is filed with counterclaims, that would be public.

There won't be a lawsuit. No decent lawyer would let their clients file in this situation. No actionable claims and even if there were, I don't see them proving anything more than nominal damages. Their only angle is to bully APS into throwing money into a pre-filing settlement in order to avoid ongoing accusations of racism. APS will surely cave, but the right thing to do would be to let them proceed with their claims and let the chips fall where they may.

You can't say there are no actionable claims until you have a lot more info than the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

If this keeps schools and workplaces from making us play these stupid games that do not facilitate either learning or work, I say more power to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this keeps schools and workplaces from making us play these stupid games that do not facilitate either learning or work, I say more power to them.

Yes, I am still confused why they were even playing these games in French class instead of learning French!

[Anonymous]

Idiocracy achieved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:May God give me (or better yet someone else) the strength to call out the BS on AEM right now.

There's no point arguing with a person who thinks it is hurtful to black children to make "snowmen" by pasting cotton balls onto construction paper

DP. I went back and re-read the post. I think the no cotton balls at school/chalk snowman poster was being sarcastic (she used a facepalm emoji). But I’m sure there are people in that group who think cotton should be banned from schools.

I remember when I first joined I tried to engage in rationale conversation and quickly one of the totally out there posters basically implied I was racist and told me I needed to listen to a podcast. That’s when I realized the entire group is an echo chamber of a few crazies who get off on making crazy allegations against anyone who has even a moderate difference in opinion.

Yeah, no. She was serious. Look at her other posts and likes on the thread. The facepalm was to indicate her shock that people in this day and age would use cotton balls even in an art project. That poster openly solicits Simone's approval and goes overboard trying to show how progressive and anti-racist she is.

+1000

She wasn't kidding about not using the cotton balls.

I don't agree with a ban on cotton balls but I can certainly see why a teacher would not want to go there.

Really? cotton bolls, maybe, but cotton balls wouldn't even cross my mind, and I have done plenty of anti-racist training and thinking.

I also think its ridiculous because there are plenty of kids at Gunston that have been through real trauma and are likely (inadvertently) exposed to triggers at school that would never occur to anyone to be sensitive about. There are kids who were smuggled into the US or came here on foot from El Salvador to escape drug gangs, there are kids who are refugees from civil wars in Sudan and Syria, there are kids in the foster system... They are certainly not thinking about complaining or suing the school because they played "capture the flag" or "dodge ball" in gym.

So much anti-racist training and still insensitive to the anti-Black racism systematically experienced by the descendants of black slaves in this country. SMH.
Typical white supremacist I guess.

We all get it that African Americans were unfathomably and inhumanely treated and used, etc etc etc. And we get that effects of slavery have endured. However, if an AA person today who is now generations removed from actual enslavement is truly "traumatized" by cotton balls, that person has other issues they need to address with a mental health professional. Resent history - and those to blame - all you want, rightfully so. But don't expect everyone to placate you with any and every possible six-degrees-of-separation you want to make with real trauma that never actually happened to you or your parents or likely your grandparents at this point. Stop diminishing the meaning of "trauma" and brutalizations and horrific situations that others are actually directly experiencing today. Am I to believe this kid would experience PTSD-like reactions at the sound of a horse whip? Something he's probably never once heard in his life?

Black kids know the history of what happened to their ancestors and yes the are still being traumatized through the current systemic racism and and white supremacy.
Admit it many white supremacist enjoy seeing Blacks victimized.

"Victimized" perhaps, but "being traumatized through system racism" they are not. They're only being traumatized by the adults who tell them they are/should be traumatized by things like stupid team-building games that happen to involve cotton balls. As in this case, the student himself indicated he was bothered in retrospect after thinking about it (ie, after telling his mother who was outraged and being told how insensitive and reprehensible the situation was). If he was actually traumatized by his experience, he would have immediately experienced the severe distress and suffered the traumatic reminder of the horrific experience of slavery done to his people and all the racism he has encountered in his life.

Well I happen to disagree. The boy will remember this for the rest of his life. He may be too young to have understood what was happening while it happens now. But he knows now. I don’t know about $10 million, but the school system needs to pay.

Because his parents chose to turn this into something it's not. Objectively, the incident was not about picking cotton in the fields like a slave. We don't know how the boy felt at first beyond that he described the incident to his parents (maybe he was confused and needed to check that this was or was not a racist incident), and then the parents went all in on the racism allegation. It's the parents who now claim their son is traumatized, and of course NOW he is! The teacher was offended at the accusation, and perhaps did not respond appropriately, and probably some kids expressed their disbelief that the game could have been viewed as racist, and now he's caught between his parents' perception of the incident, and everyone else's. The poor kid! I blame the parents for blowing this all out of proportion and inflicting avoidable harm on their own child.

100% spot on.

[Anonymous]

Dollars to donuts he did not go home saying he was pissed about a racist game. He went home, saying he was pissed that a sub made him participate in an activity. No kid likes to be involuntarily chosen for a game. Especially a 13 yo. But not let’s not pretend like he was the only one participating. So then the mom asked more questions, what was this game? why are you doing that in French class, etc. and find out it has to do with a cotton ball. Then she made a freaking mountain out of a mole hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this keeps schools and workplaces from making us play these stupid games that do not facilitate either learning or work, I say more power to them.

I didn’t think of that! That would be nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dollars to donuts he did not go home saying he was pissed about a racist game. He went home, saying he was pissed that a sub made him participate in an activity. No kid likes to be involuntarily chosen for a game. Especially a 13 yo. But not let’s not pretend like he was the only one participating. So then the mom asked more questions, what was this game? why are you doing that in French class, etc. and find out it has to do with a cotton ball. Then she made a freaking mountain out of a mole hill.

NP I also believe that there have been social consequences for him because some of the kids are probably pissed at the disruption and making the school look bad.

[Anonymous]

What is the response deadline for the demand letter? A lot of people have strong opinions, but I don’t think anyone knows how APS is going to respond. Or does someone here have an insider view??? I’m very skeptical of the claims (the demand for $10 million, based on the facts alleged, is so absurd as to make it impossible to take the claims seriously - the number is simply distracting beyond repair). I’m interested to see if Justin Fairfax continues to represent the family if APS refuses to settle and forces the complainant to file. Committing to litigation is a much different engagement than being retained for the limited purpose of drafting a demand letter and handling settlement negotiations.

[Anonymous]

I am a substitute and see an "alert" every time I logon to the vacancy system about the need to fill that long term sub position. No way in hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a substitute and see an "alert" every time I logon to the vacancy system about the need to fill that long term sub position. No way in hell.

The same position - French teacher?

Why is there a need for a long-term sub in the first place? Would a long-term sub for a language class necessarily have to know the language and be able to teach it, or are they essentially babysitters and that's why the former sub had them playing stupid games instead of learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a substitute and see an "alert" every time I logon to the vacancy system about the need to fill that long term sub position. No way in hell.

The same position - French teacher?

Why is there a need for a long-term sub in the first place? Would a long-term sub for a language class necessarily have to know the language and be able to teach it, or are they essentially babysitters and that's why the former sub had them playing stupid games instead of learning?

This has been explained in all the news articles and this thread. It was a half day and the whole school was spending time doing “team building” games and all teachers had the same packet of games to choose from, including this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dollars to donuts he did not go home saying he was pissed about a racist game. He went home, saying he was pissed that a sub made him participate in an activity. No kid likes to be involuntarily chosen for a game. Especially a 13 yo. But not let’s not pretend like he was the only one participating. So then the mom asked more questions, what was this game? why are you doing that in French class, etc. and find out it has to do with a cotton ball. Then she made a freaking mountain out of a mole hill.

NP I also believe that there have been social consequences for him because some of the kids are probably pissed at the disruption and making the school look bad.

+1 Crying racism over a situation that absolutely was not can, and should IMO, result in blowback. Blowing up about stupid things that no reasonable person of color would consider racist just makes things harder for everyone. Like the boy who cried wolf.

This whole mess was 100% created by the parent. Typical interaction with a 13 year old...
Kid: we had a sub today and it sucked, she picked me to play this stupid game
Parent: that's too bad, well, hopefully tomorrow will be better.

Done, nobody is traumatized. They go on with their lives and maybe kid learns that sometimes you have to cope with annoying, slightly embarrassing things in life. But apparently, in this household, it continued to...

Kid: yeah, I had to pick up cotton balls with vaseline on my nose, it was really stupid and embarrassing
Parent: COTTON BALLS!!!! RACIST!! How could they DO that to you??? I must call the school right now!!

And it blows up into the current situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a substitute and see an "alert" every time I logon to the vacancy system about the need to fill that long term sub position. No way in hell.

The same position - French teacher?

Why is there a need for a long-term sub in the first place? Would a long-term sub for a language class necessarily have to know the language and be able to teach it, or are they essentially babysitters and that's why the former sub had them playing stupid games instead of learning?

There’s a teacher shortage and world languages are hit particularly hard. Add in the fact that you may have to deal with this kind of BS and it’s even worse. I’d be really curious to see how vacancies at Gunston have changed since this incident. There’s no way I’d go there