Harvard undergrad

[Anonymous]

Hi! DD was hoping to get a chance to find out about Harvard by attending their weekend for accepted students (which was supposed to take place today through Monday). It's been canceled due to the recent events in Boston. We've never been to Cambridge. She's read a lot about the less-than-ideal social life for Harvard undergrads. If you have a student at Harvard, or know one, is he or she able to enjoy life?

[Anonymous]

My best friend went to Harvard and graduated in 2006. We joke that she is 4 years younger than us because of the social retardation of Harvard (as compared to the rest of the group which graduated from brown, gtown, furman, duke). So what you hear is true for some people. However, college is what you make of it. My dear friend is a book worm and her parents are both MDs and always set very high expectations for her academically. However, most of her roommates were very similar. I remember finding them socially awkward. They would show up for a party at 8pm, play beer pong with water, and have discussions that were a little "high level" for your average keg party. None of these are bad things just a few examples of what contributed to an odd social experience. If your daughter is more social than my friend she will likely have a better experience than my friend and hopefully meet more outgoing people. Also, there are a lot of kids attending there who are planning to run for president. No, like president of the United States. It was like they were running a constant meet and great campaign whenever they met someone - kind of funny. But I'm sure that's at other competitive schools as well.

I think my friend really appreciated the academic opportunities at Harvard and the internships it led to. She went on to take a 1 year break after graduating and then went to med school at Emory. She specifically chose Emory over other more prestigious schools so she could attempt to have a more normal or balanced social life.

[Anonymous]

Thanks -- very helpful!

[Anonymous]

She should be able to visit another time. There may not be organized programs but she can probably get the admissions office to arrange for her to spend the night in a dorm and go to some classes.

[Anonymous]

She should try to visit another time before making a decision. I attended Harvard, and at the time the social scene was fine, but the academics were very far from focused on undergraduates. I overall still enjoyed my experience there and the "name" certainly opens doors, but my time in graduate school there was much more valuable, and in retrospect, I would have been better off at a more undergrad focused institution (Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth or a really good LAC like Williams or Middlebury or Pomonaor Swarthmore) for undergrad, someone would have read and cared about what I wrote I suspect, and seeing my DDs now as students at two of the more undergrad focused institutions I list (one chose to not go to Harvard despite being admitted, one didn't even apply) they are getting a much better experience academically in college than I did. They also felt that the kids from their high schools that ended up at Harvard were really not people they hoped to be in college with, seemed to be too many highly programmed products of tiger moms, kids of billionaires who didn't deserve admission, people obsessed with status and not actually very intellectually engaged, and their older friends who did end up at Harvard found the current social scene to be quite stressful and unwelcoming, which surprised me, that seems to have changed alot with now a big focus on finals clubs and frats/sororities.

[Anonymous]

One of my son's closest friends is an undergrad at Harvard. Not socially awkward at all; no "Tiger mom" (a racist term that I find abhorrent, but am quoting a PP here); parents are not loaded. Just a really nice, bright, hard-working kid with a lot of curiosity about the world (actually, this description fits many of my son's friends, who are at a range of schools.)

I do get the sense that the finals clubs are a bigger deal than they were when I went to college back in the day, but Harvard is not the only school with a very intense finals club/frat/eating club scene -- see, e.g., Dartmouth and Princeton.

OP, I know the clock is ticking, but you should be able to work something out with the admissions office -- or perhaps your child's high school counselor could help you identify an alum who is currently a Harvard undergrad who would be willing to host your DD.

[Anonymous]

How much is their deposit? Can you pay it and buy yourselves some more time to visit?

[Anonymous]

What schools is she choosing between? Honestly, does she want to go to "Harvard" or not? It will never be frat/sorority heaven. You will not be in a Southern "social" environment. She will only feel excluded from social life if she wants to fixate on one aspect of social life that she thinks she should have. If she wants to party every night, she's in the wrong place.

If she's worried about whether a subsection of the kids are grade-obsessed and socially awkward, yes they are there. Traditionally that aspect has been more amplified there than at Yale. But can she find a bunch of people with whom she's comfortable? Sure.

So if she's choosing between Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, then you may want to get down in the weeds. Yale will be the most "down to earth", if you can say that about any of these locations. Princeton may be the most "clubby". But if she's choosing between Harvard or UVA, does she want to go to "Harvard" or not?

[Anonymous]

I would only turn down Harvard for yale, Princeton, or Stanford. Maaayybee columbia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She should try to visit another time before making a decision. I attended Harvard, and at the time the social scene was fine, but the academics were very far from focused on undergraduates. I overall still enjoyed my experience there and the "name" certainly opens doors, but my time in graduate school there was much more valuable, and in retrospect, I would have been better off at a more undergrad focused institution (Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth or a really good LAC like Williams or Middlebury or Pomonaor Swarthmore) for undergrad, someone would have read and cared about what I wrote I suspect, and seeing my DDs now as students at two of the more undergrad focused institutions I list (one chose to not go to Harvard despite being admitted, one didn't even apply) they are getting a much better experience academically in college than I did. They also felt that the kids from their high schools that ended up at Harvard were really not people they hoped to be in college with, seemed to be too many highly programmed products of tiger moms, kids of billionaires who didn't deserve admission, people obsessed with status and not actually very intellectually engaged, and their older friends who did end up at Harvard found the current social scene to be quite stressful and unwelcoming, which surprised me, that seems to have changed alot with now a big focus on finals clubs and frats/sororities.

Thats interesting to read because my DD also wants to avoid the "top ivies" though they would not be beyond reach for her, because of the kids at her current school who she thinks may go there. She just doesn't like the kids who are checking off all the boxes for college admissions rather than engaging in learning for learning's sake and she hates their competitiveness. She's looking at the the more academically focused private colleges that are off the beaten path.

[Anonymous]

OP here. She is choosing between Harvard and Yale. That is why we are asking questions about the social life, as I think that is the deciding factor for her at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. She is choosing between Harvard and Yale. That is why we are asking questions about the social life, as I think that is the deciding factor for her at this point.

Okay. I made that choice years ago. Yale, no question. But there's awkwardness there too, just not as much. Did she go to Bulldog Days? Did she like it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. She is choosing between Harvard and Yale. That is why we are asking questions about the social life, as I think that is the deciding factor for her at this point.

No advice. Just congratulations!

[Anonymous]

Yale, if social life is important to her.

[Anonymous]

I graduated from Harvard a million years ago. Harvard and Yale are super-similar. I go the impression that Yale was more socially cohesive, both because freshmen get assigned to a residential college early, and because there is less to do around town. Harvard is an urban campus, and it wasn't like a Big 10 school, where everyone is attending one event on campus over the weekend.

Harvard has really great opportunities for kids who are interested in politics, because Boston has major campaign offices, and because anybody who's anybody speaks at the Institute of POlitics at the Kennedy School. On th other hand, Yale theater programs are of a caliber that Harvard can probably never match. I think most of the things I have said are structural, i.e.they are still true today.