What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?

[Anonymous]

I have a kid that graduated from TJ. Weekends were spent playing a travel sport. He loved his time at TJ and went deep into multiple STEM subjects. He's now majoring in CS at a top engineering school. I have serious doubts this would have been his track if he'd stayed at his base HS.

That said, I do strongly support diversity at TJ but this lottery system is not the way to fix what is a systemic problem bigger than the school system.

[Anonymous]

At the end of the day, this might panic people too much if it diminishes the elite nature of the school.

[Anonymous]

I posted the "radical" post - and just wanted to acknowledge this post as being thoughtful and adding good perspective. Thanks! I perhaps live in a bit of a naive bubble where I don't care what my community "looks" like - I care how it acts, feels, innovates, supports, and competes - but I recognize that is not reflective of the experiences of many. Count me as one of the last of the Gen X types who drank the kool aid on having common national bonds of integrity, industry, and kindness - and therefore am struggling to get with the times in understanding the ethos of tribalism and identity politics plagued by so much political and public discourse.


Thank you for the kind response. One doesn't always find that here, especially among those who may disagree as to the right policy choices.

I read the bracketed sentence to mean you still believe in the notion of equal opportunity before equal outcome. For those advocating for change at TJ, they see too many indicators that, in fact, we don't have equal opportunity in FCPS. Obviously some people focus on the racial component, but one can also look at the economic component (TJ currently has the lowest FARMS rate of any FCPS high school), the geographic component (the vast majority of TJ students who live in the county come from either northern Fairfax or western Fairfax, but not central or southern Fairfax), and the feeder school component (three middle schools - Carson, Longfellow, and Rocky Run - and four high school pyramids - Chantilly, Langley, McLean, and Oakton - account for a disproportionate share of TJ students). Put that all together and you now have a critical mass of school officials who believe that TJ, in its current form, undermines rather than exemplifies FCPS's values and commitment to equal opportunity.

I don't doubt that others see TJ as a shining example of meritocracy, or that the proposed reform would weaken rather than strengthen the school. It may be too much to ask that they try to step into someone else's shoes for a while, but it might not be a totally fruitless exercise.

I LOVE this thoughtful response! The hope (however rarely it ever happens) is to learn from others without snark and to pursue areas of common ground to find solutions that work for all - and that is absolutely the spirit of this dialogue. I find your point on equal opportunity versus equal outcome to be very though provoking. In an idealized world (of my own making) there would be a solution that truly addresses equal opportunity. And that is something that begins with or even before kindergarten. There is something systemic in the combination of the school system and community values that is failing to provide equal opportunity. My concern is that by dismantling the current admissions approach with TJ for a lottery system of some percentage of the student body, that we collectively are failing to address the bigger issue - lower income children don't have access to the resources or exposure to many of the tools that could put them in position to fulfill their academic potential. One could argue that changing the admissions policy for 8th graders is giving up on the opportunity to make true change that would promote equal opportunity. So instead of lifting up deserving children, we are doing nothing to help them when it matters, while concurrently diluting whatever perceived value there is to the current perception of TJ as being a high performing, STEM school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day, this might panic people too much if it diminishes the elite nature of the school.

Panic them into doing what? We’ve been hearing from some people for years that they’ll take their marbles and leave if TJ doesn’t remain exactly the same. Brabrand’s roll-out of his proposal is a giant shrug to those types of threats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all in for increased the diversity and cutting the influence of prep centers on TJ entrance test and admissions. But, I do not like the low bar to get into the selection pool and final selection via lottery. Its a bad solution to a genuine issue. A top student who excels at everything in school will have an equal chance of getting admitted as a student who barely met the cut off requirements. The lottery is not fair truly gifted students who belong in TJ. I wish there is a minimum bar of around 40 kids for each region, which accommodates more qualified students from some regions. On the contrary, this change will help get rid of rat race many kids are currently in to get into TJ i.e., years of preparation, push from parents and all the stress that goes with it. Also, since getting into TJ is mostly going to be a matter of luck (with a little of merit based GPA), the importance and fierce reputation of TJ will slowly go down.

In some regions (1, 2 and 5), there will be quite a few kids who would now go to base school who would otherwise have gone to TJ. So, hopefully to accommodate additional set of motivated kids, base schools may eventually start offering interesting STEM courses and activities. TJ will still be better than all the schools, but since base schools are expected to catch up, the difference between TJ and base schools will not be as significant as it is right now. We might see many kids from base schools easily compete with TJ kids in STEM activities, AP participation, SATs and college admissions etc.

In any case, student enrichment will not stop. Motivated parents and students will always seek opportunities to improve themselves, go group enrichment centers or tutoring, though the exclusive need for preparing for TJ will go away.

TJ Admissions is not going to put kids in the lottery pipeline that won't succeed at TJ. They will want this to succeed for the Class of 2025.

You really don't know what their definition of success will be.

And if they are REALLY going to only take kids who are super-prepared, there's no guarantee the new pool won't be just like the old pool.

Here's a REALLY important thing to understand: There can be a completely new pool of students who are every bit as qualified and likely to succeed (save for maybe the top 50-100 kids) as the old pool. TJ Admissions has been harping for years on the fact that they could EASILY place 2-3 full classes of kids at TJ who would do wonderfully at the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all in for increased the diversity and cutting the influence of prep centers on TJ entrance test and admissions. But, I do not like the low bar to get into the selection pool and final selection via lottery. Its a bad solution to a genuine issue. A top student who excels at everything in school will have an equal chance of getting admitted as a student who barely met the cut off requirements. The lottery is not fair truly gifted students who belong in TJ. I wish there is a minimum bar of around 40 kids for each region, which accommodates more qualified students from some regions. On the contrary, this change will help get rid of rat race many kids are currently in to get into TJ i.e., years of preparation, push from parents and all the stress that goes with it. Also, since getting into TJ is mostly going to be a matter of luck (with a little of merit based GPA), the importance and fierce reputation of TJ will slowly go down.

In some regions (1, 2 and 5), there will be quite a few kids who would now go to base school who would otherwise have gone to TJ. So, hopefully to accommodate additional set of motivated kids, base schools may eventually start offering interesting STEM courses and activities. TJ will still be better than all the schools, but since base schools are expected to catch up, the difference between TJ and base schools will not be as significant as it is right now. We might see many kids from base schools easily compete with TJ kids in STEM activities, AP participation, SATs and college admissions etc.

In any case, student enrichment will not stop. Motivated parents and students will always seek opportunities to improve themselves, go group enrichment centers or tutoring, though the exclusive need for preparing for TJ will go away.

TJ Admissions is not going to put kids in the lottery pipeline that won't succeed at TJ. They will want this to succeed for the Class of 2025.

You really don't know what their definition of success will be.

And if they are REALLY going to only take kids who are super-prepared, there's no guarantee the new pool won't be just like the old pool.

Here's a REALLY important thing to understand: There can be a completely new pool of students who are every bit as qualified and likely to succeed (save for maybe the top 50-100 kids) as the old pool. TJ Admissions has been harping for years on the fact that they could EASILY place 2-3 full classes of kids at TJ who would do wonderfully at the school.

New pool of students who will flunk out of TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day, this might panic people too much if it diminishes the elite nature of the school.

Panic them into doing what? We’ve been hearing from some people for years that they’ll take their marbles and leave if TJ doesn’t remain exactly the same. Brabrand’s roll-out of his proposal is a giant shrug to those types of threats.

As well it should be. If they want to leave, they're more than welcome to. There will be plenty of outstanding, well-qualified kids ready to take their place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all in for increased the diversity and cutting the influence of prep centers on TJ entrance test and admissions. But, I do not like the low bar to get into the selection pool and final selection via lottery. Its a bad solution to a genuine issue. A top student who excels at everything in school will have an equal chance of getting admitted as a student who barely met the cut off requirements. The lottery is not fair truly gifted students who belong in TJ. I wish there is a minimum bar of around 40 kids for each region, which accommodates more qualified students from some regions. On the contrary, this change will help get rid of rat race many kids are currently in to get into TJ i.e., years of preparation, push from parents and all the stress that goes with it. Also, since getting into TJ is mostly going to be a matter of luck (with a little of merit based GPA), the importance and fierce reputation of TJ will slowly go down.

In some regions (1, 2 and 5), there will be quite a few kids who would now go to base school who would otherwise have gone to TJ. So, hopefully to accommodate additional set of motivated kids, base schools may eventually start offering interesting STEM courses and activities. TJ will still be better than all the schools, but since base schools are expected to catch up, the difference between TJ and base schools will not be as significant as it is right now. We might see many kids from base schools easily compete with TJ kids in STEM activities, AP participation, SATs and college admissions etc.

In any case, student enrichment will not stop. Motivated parents and students will always seek opportunities to improve themselves, go group enrichment centers or tutoring, though the exclusive need for preparing for TJ will go away.

TJ Admissions is not going to put kids in the lottery pipeline that won't succeed at TJ. They will want this to succeed for the Class of 2025.

You really don't know what their definition of success will be.

And if they are REALLY going to only take kids who are super-prepared, there's no guarantee the new pool won't be just like the old pool.

Here's a REALLY important thing to understand: There can be a completely new pool of students who are every bit as qualified and likely to succeed (save for maybe the top 50-100 kids) as the old pool. TJ Admissions has been harping for years on the fact that they could EASILY place 2-3 full classes of kids at TJ who would do wonderfully at the school.

New pool of students who will flunk out of TJ.

There are plenty of students who do this now. There won't be any, or many, more in this process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all in for increased the diversity and cutting the influence of prep centers on TJ entrance test and admissions. But, I do not like the low bar to get into the selection pool and final selection via lottery. Its a bad solution to a genuine issue. A top student who excels at everything in school will have an equal chance of getting admitted as a student who barely met the cut off requirements. The lottery is not fair truly gifted students who belong in TJ. I wish there is a minimum bar of around 40 kids for each region, which accommodates more qualified students from some regions. On the contrary, this change will help get rid of rat race many kids are currently in to get into TJ i.e., years of preparation, push from parents and all the stress that goes with it. Also, since getting into TJ is mostly going to be a matter of luck (with a little of merit based GPA), the importance and fierce reputation of TJ will slowly go down.

In some regions (1, 2 and 5), there will be quite a few kids who would now go to base school who would otherwise have gone to TJ. So, hopefully to accommodate additional set of motivated kids, base schools may eventually start offering interesting STEM courses and activities. TJ will still be better than all the schools, but since base schools are expected to catch up, the difference between TJ and base schools will not be as significant as it is right now. We might see many kids from base schools easily compete with TJ kids in STEM activities, AP participation, SATs and college admissions etc.

In any case, student enrichment will not stop. Motivated parents and students will always seek opportunities to improve themselves, go group enrichment centers or tutoring, though the exclusive need for preparing for TJ will go away.

TJ Admissions is not going to put kids in the lottery pipeline that won't succeed at TJ. They will want this to succeed for the Class of 2025.

You really don't know what their definition of success will be.

And if they are REALLY going to only take kids who are super-prepared, there's no guarantee the new pool won't be just like the old pool.

Here's a REALLY important thing to understand: There can be a completely new pool of students who are every bit as qualified and likely to succeed (save for maybe the top 50-100 kids) as the old pool. TJ Admissions has been harping for years on the fact that they could EASILY place 2-3 full classes of kids at TJ who would do wonderfully at the school.

So expand the school if you think there are more qualified kids that the school can currently take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all in for increased the diversity and cutting the influence of prep centers on TJ entrance test and admissions. But, I do not like the low bar to get into the selection pool and final selection via lottery. Its a bad solution to a genuine issue. A top student who excels at everything in school will have an equal chance of getting admitted as a student who barely met the cut off requirements. The lottery is not fair truly gifted students who belong in TJ. I wish there is a minimum bar of around 40 kids for each region, which accommodates more qualified students from some regions. On the contrary, this change will help get rid of rat race many kids are currently in to get into TJ i.e., years of preparation, push from parents and all the stress that goes with it. Also, since getting into TJ is mostly going to be a matter of luck (with a little of merit based GPA), the importance and fierce reputation of TJ will slowly go down.

In some regions (1, 2 and 5), there will be quite a few kids who would now go to base school who would otherwise have gone to TJ. So, hopefully to accommodate additional set of motivated kids, base schools may eventually start offering interesting STEM courses and activities. TJ will still be better than all the schools, but since base schools are expected to catch up, the difference between TJ and base schools will not be as significant as it is right now. We might see many kids from base schools easily compete with TJ kids in STEM activities, AP participation, SATs and college admissions etc.

In any case, student enrichment will not stop. Motivated parents and students will always seek opportunities to improve themselves, go group enrichment centers or tutoring, though the exclusive need for preparing for TJ will go away.

TJ Admissions is not going to put kids in the lottery pipeline that won't succeed at TJ. They will want this to succeed for the Class of 2025.

You really don't know what their definition of success will be.

And if they are REALLY going to only take kids who are super-prepared, there's no guarantee the new pool won't be just like the old pool.

Here's a REALLY important thing to understand: There can be a completely new pool of students who are every bit as qualified and likely to succeed (save for maybe the top 50-100 kids) as the old pool. TJ Admissions has been harping for years on the fact that they could EASILY place 2-3 full classes of kids at TJ who would do wonderfully at the school.

So expand the school if you think there are more qualified kids that the school can currently take.

The building cost $90 million and has a capacity of approximately 2000. It's not about what I think - there ARE more qualified kids than the school can take.

What they'd have to do is shut down a current high school and turn it into another TJ, just like they did with TJ back in the mid-80s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all in for increased the diversity and cutting the influence of prep centers on TJ entrance test and admissions. But, I do not like the low bar to get into the selection pool and final selection via lottery. Its a bad solution to a genuine issue. A top student who excels at everything in school will have an equal chance of getting admitted as a student who barely met the cut off requirements. The lottery is not fair truly gifted students who belong in TJ. I wish there is a minimum bar of around 40 kids for each region, which accommodates more qualified students from some regions. On the contrary, this change will help get rid of rat race many kids are currently in to get into TJ i.e., years of preparation, push from parents and all the stress that goes with it. Also, since getting into TJ is mostly going to be a matter of luck (with a little of merit based GPA), the importance and fierce reputation of TJ will slowly go down.

In some regions (1, 2 and 5), there will be quite a few kids who would now go to base school who would otherwise have gone to TJ. So, hopefully to accommodate additional set of motivated kids, base schools may eventually start offering interesting STEM courses and activities. TJ will still be better than all the schools, but since base schools are expected to catch up, the difference between TJ and base schools will not be as significant as it is right now. We might see many kids from base schools easily compete with TJ kids in STEM activities, AP participation, SATs and college admissions etc.

In any case, student enrichment will not stop. Motivated parents and students will always seek opportunities to improve themselves, go group enrichment centers or tutoring, though the exclusive need for preparing for TJ will go away.

TJ Admissions is not going to put kids in the lottery pipeline that won't succeed at TJ. They will want this to succeed for the Class of 2025.

You really don't know what their definition of success will be.

And if they are REALLY going to only take kids who are super-prepared, there's no guarantee the new pool won't be just like the old pool.

Here's a REALLY important thing to understand: There can be a completely new pool of students who are every bit as qualified and likely to succeed (save for maybe the top 50-100 kids) as the old pool. TJ Admissions has been harping for years on the fact that they could EASILY place 2-3 full classes of kids at TJ who would do wonderfully at the school.

So expand the school if you think there are more qualified kids that the school can currently take.

The building cost $90 million and has a capacity of approximately 2000. It's not about what I think - there ARE more qualified kids than the school can take.

What they'd have to do is shut down a current high school and turn it into another TJ, just like they did with TJ back in the mid-80s.

That only happened because there was a building surplus then. Now they don't have enough seats and there is no appetite for more Governor's schools or magnet programs in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day, this might panic people too much if it diminishes the elite nature of the school.

Panic them into doing what? We’ve been hearing from some people for years that they’ll take their marbles and leave if TJ doesn’t remain exactly the same. Brabrand’s roll-out of his proposal is a giant shrug to those types of threats.

We will see how the real estate market shakes out. People in my community have a history of moving to wherever will be the most beneficial for admission to schools and paying in cash since we are debt adverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all in for increased the diversity and cutting the influence of prep centers on TJ entrance test and admissions. But, I do not like the low bar to get into the selection pool and final selection via lottery. Its a bad solution to a genuine issue. A top student who excels at everything in school will have an equal chance of getting admitted as a student who barely met the cut off requirements. The lottery is not fair truly gifted students who belong in TJ. I wish there is a minimum bar of around 40 kids for each region, which accommodates more qualified students from some regions. On the contrary, this change will help get rid of rat race many kids are currently in to get into TJ i.e., years of preparation, push from parents and all the stress that goes with it. Also, since getting into TJ is mostly going to be a matter of luck (with a little of merit based GPA), the importance and fierce reputation of TJ will slowly go down.

In some regions (1, 2 and 5), there will be quite a few kids who would now go to base school who would otherwise have gone to TJ. So, hopefully to accommodate additional set of motivated kids, base schools may eventually start offering interesting STEM courses and activities. TJ will still be better than all the schools, but since base schools are expected to catch up, the difference between TJ and base schools will not be as significant as it is right now. We might see many kids from base schools easily compete with TJ kids in STEM activities, AP participation, SATs and college admissions etc.

In any case, student enrichment will not stop. Motivated parents and students will always seek opportunities to improve themselves, go group enrichment centers or tutoring, though the exclusive need for preparing for TJ will go away.

TJ Admissions is not going to put kids in the lottery pipeline that won't succeed at TJ. They will want this to succeed for the Class of 2025.

You really don't know what their definition of success will be.

And if they are REALLY going to only take kids who are super-prepared, there's no guarantee the new pool won't be just like the old pool.

Here's a REALLY important thing to understand: There can be a completely new pool of students who are every bit as qualified and likely to succeed (save for maybe the top 50-100 kids) as the old pool. TJ Admissions has been harping for years on the fact that they could EASILY place 2-3 full classes of kids at TJ who would do wonderfully at the school.

Two points:
1 - Now those top 50-100 kids are in the lottery with everyone else... so now maybe 10-20 of those kids make it, which mean 40-80 kids don't. Doesn't matter how qualified you are, you go into the lottery.
2 - With the threshold now being 3.5 GPA, I really doubt that the new pool of students will be every bit as qualified as the group that is taken now. I think the 2-3 full classes of "left out" kids now, are the ones that got a 3.875 GPA, and lost in comparison with the kid who had 3.9GPA.

Look, the school board is going in a different direction -- they want a different TJ. You can't pretend its going to the same, with the same number of students who can handle the same rigor. It just isn't. But I think the school board knows and accepts that tradeoff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all in for increased the diversity and cutting the influence of prep centers on TJ entrance test and admissions. But, I do not like the low bar to get into the selection pool and final selection via lottery. Its a bad solution to a genuine issue. A top student who excels at everything in school will have an equal chance of getting admitted as a student who barely met the cut off requirements. The lottery is not fair truly gifted students who belong in TJ. I wish there is a minimum bar of around 40 kids for each region, which accommodates more qualified students from some regions. On the contrary, this change will help get rid of rat race many kids are currently in to get into TJ i.e., years of preparation, push from parents and all the stress that goes with it. Also, since getting into TJ is mostly going to be a matter of luck (with a little of merit based GPA), the importance and fierce reputation of TJ will slowly go down.

In some regions (1, 2 and 5), there will be quite a few kids who would now go to base school who would otherwise have gone to TJ. So, hopefully to accommodate additional set of motivated kids, base schools may eventually start offering interesting STEM courses and activities. TJ will still be better than all the schools, but since base schools are expected to catch up, the difference between TJ and base schools will not be as significant as it is right now. We might see many kids from base schools easily compete with TJ kids in STEM activities, AP participation, SATs and college admissions etc.

In any case, student enrichment will not stop. Motivated parents and students will always seek opportunities to improve themselves, go group enrichment centers or tutoring, though the exclusive need for preparing for TJ will go away.

TJ Admissions is not going to put kids in the lottery pipeline that won't succeed at TJ. They will want this to succeed for the Class of 2025.

I sincerely hope you are correct and kids who truly belong to TJ will not be replaced by kids who barely meet the minimum requirements and struggle to compete. If base schools improve (in standards or participation) because of this change, then there is at least something to cheer about.

14:41 here - may be rolling admissions every quarter will take care of it.. some students who cannot handle the load or get bad grades will drop out, which will pave way for new students missed out in the lottery order and eventually by senior year the cohort will consists of the students who are well adjusted to TJ work load and able to compete with their peers. This coupled with the fact TJ might have to water down to accommodate less prepared students, it will event out somewhere in the middle. So, if the student is qualified and can wait long enough, may eventually make it to TJ by the time they graduate. .

Yes, some motivated kids are saying that they will wait to attend TJ after they graduate from college as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A public school should be educating a representative cross section of the public and providing opportunities for kids who have interest and aptitude. It's fine with me if TJ is not the same or as "elite" as it has been. I don't want my public tax dollars used as it has been used. I would prefer to have it be a magnet STEM school that finds and develops talent.

If you want the most elite school that is so far above and beyond --- then send your kid to a private school that meets your expectations.

90% of the people freaking out about this are interested in TJ for their kids only has a conduit for college and the life the tiger parents have planned out for their cubs. There are truly exceptional kids, but they are a smaller group.

Bravo to the state and district for trying to change TJ.

- I do not agree with you. I want part of my Tax $ to be used to "Public Great School". There are other public schools available for every kids to go.