"Opening up" means risking your life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

The risk is minuscule. The fatality rate is less than 2%! And judging by recent reports that are many more asymptomatic cases than previously thought, the fatality rate would be even lower.

What is 1.5% of 350,000,000?

The actual death rate is around .3% according to recent studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

The risk is minuscule. The fatality rate is less than 2%! And judging by recent reports that are many more asymptomatic cases than previously thought, the fatality rate would be even lower.

What is 1.5% of 350,000,000?

The actual death rate is around .3% according to recent studies.

Link?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty certain that at least some people who aren’t part of the “ruling” class would benefit if some businesses opened up if it was deemed safe by reasonable governors of their respective states.

They will benefit right up to the point that they are infected with coronavirus.

And 99% plus will survive it and go on to see another day.

That would be a mortality rate 10 times that of the regular flu and would result in potentially millions of deaths (depending on the spread of infection).

But again, feel free to risk your and your family's lives. Just don't expect others to do it for you.

Jeff, I really don’t see how you see coming into contact with a virus that has such a low fatality rate as “risking your life”.

It is because of how contagious it is. Because it spreads so widely, even a small percentage is a large number. There are plenty of reports of people younger than me with no pre-existing conditions who were in good health dying from COVID.

But to be clear, it is not my life at risk. My wife and I work at home normally and our kids' schools will not have in-person classes this school year. We will be protected. I am worried about those who will be forced to take risks that most of the loudest voices to open won't take themselves. If you are willing to risk your and your family's health, I fully support your acting as a guinea pig for the rest of us.

Jeff would you agree there needs to be a middle ground though. Social distancing and mask usage. I'm curious how long are you advocating for stay at home otherwise, months till 2021?!?!?!?!?!

I have been pretty clear throughout this thread that once we have widespread testing, contact tracing, safe working conditions, and sufficient PPE, I would support re-opening. I am not sure a mask by itself, especially the homemade ones, is sufficient PPE.

My main concern is that those most eager to reopen are not the ones that will be taking the risks. When the loudest voices to reopen are willing to lead the way, I'll feel much more comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, there is NO easy way to handle this.

We can't open up now. And we most likely can't open up next month either. PEOPLE WILL DIE.

We also can't lock everyone up for 18 months either. People will go broke, commit suicide or want to kill their domestic partners from cabin fever and isolation. PEOPLE WILL DIE.

We need a couple months more of stay at home. While we build up hospital infrastructure and ramp up production of testing supplies.

Then we'll need to make tradeoffs for different kinds of personal freedoms. Want to go out and see your friends? Fine, but you have to get a negative covid test first and if anyone shows symptoms, you have to take down names. The more we allow mobility, the more we may need to allow tracking and surveillance. Want to travel? Now you need medical testing to get a visa.

It is going to be HARD. Until there is a vaccine, there is GOING to be varying degrees of restriction, surveillance, repeated testing, and opening and closing of things periodically to make sure that the number of cases does not outpace hospital capacity.

How could that possibly be enforced?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m thinking that maybe, many fortunate/privileged people in this area have a difficult time understanding what “the economy” is from outside their perspective of cushy (literally) telework-ready jobs. For such folks, “the [non-Amazon] economy” is basically what they’re doing now plus going to brunch each weekend, and shopping in a less stressful grocery store environment. So it’s pretty pain free for many, now.

The thing you are not getting...no one wants the country to be closed. NOT ONE PERSON. The way out is by testing. Why are we not testing? That is really the only question that needs to be asked and answered. We were promised testing at scale over 40 days ago. Testing 1% of the population is not something to brag about 3 months in. That is criminal.

Read today’s Post. The CDC screwed up royally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is Trump supporters think social distancing and stay at home orders are for Liberal pu££ies. Trump politicized this whole thing when he said it was a hoax.

I am so sick of the politicization of this crap. I am by no means a Trump supporter and I favor opening things up soon. Why is it so difficult to realize that thinking a virus that has a less than 2% fatality rate is not worth shutting down the world and causing a global depression over? This is thorny because it does cause people to consider how high of a death rate would be worth it. The people who think the Coronavirus death rate is worth it presumably don’t think that the number of deaths caused by the flu are worth it. Does that mean they value the economy over lives? Of course not! Well it’s the same thing with people such as myself who don’t think the less than 2% fatality rate of Coronavirus warrants this response. How high would the % have to go for me to think this response warrants it? I really don’t know. It’s not something I’ve ever had to consider before now and it’s really hard to put a hard number on it, but not 2%. I don’t think that makes me a monster, and it certainly doesn’t make me a Trump supporter.

It's not the death rate...it's the absolute number of deaths. That's a function of the likelihood of getting it and the death rate. You're likelihood of getting COVID-19 in the next year is maybe 50% absent any social distancing measures. If the fatality rate is 2%, that means the likelihood of a person dying is 1% in the next year. I can almost guarantee that there is nothing else you do voluntarily on a regular basis that carries such a high risk. I climb mountains and ski off-piste (considered exceptionally high risk sports), and I would never do either if the risk were that high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

The risk is minuscule. The fatality rate is less than 2%! And judging by recent reports that are many more asymptomatic cases than previously thought, the fatality rate would be even lower.

What is 1.5% of 350,000,000?

The actual death rate is around .3% according to recent studies.

Link?

The Lancet stated .66% back in March:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext

Italian studies have it closer to .3% due to their research showing many more asymptomatic patients then they expected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, there is NO easy way to handle this.

We can't open up now. And we most likely can't open up next month either. PEOPLE WILL DIE.

We also can't lock everyone up for 18 months either. People will go broke, commit suicide or want to kill their domestic partners from cabin fever and isolation. PEOPLE WILL DIE.

We need a couple months more of stay at home. While we build up hospital infrastructure and ramp up production of testing supplies.

Then we'll need to make tradeoffs for different kinds of personal freedoms. Want to go out and see your friends? Fine, but you have to get a negative covid test first and if anyone shows symptoms, you have to take down names. The more we allow mobility, the more we may need to allow tracking and surveillance. Want to travel? Now you need medical testing to get a visa.

It is going to be HARD. Until there is a vaccine, there is GOING to be varying degrees of restriction, surveillance, repeated testing, and opening and closing of things periodically to make sure that the number of cases does not outpace hospital capacity.

How could that possibly be enforced?

It can't. And won't. Protect yourselves or stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

The risk is minuscule. The fatality rate is less than 2%! And judging by recent reports that are many more asymptomatic cases than previously thought, the fatality rate would be even lower.

What is 1.5% of 350,000,000?

The actual death rate is around .3% according to recent studies.

Link?

The Lancet stated .66% back in March:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext

Italian studies have it closer to .3% due to their research showing many more asymptomatic patients then they expected.

More asymptomatic patients also means more people have had it than we realize which could still mean large numbers of deaths from a lower fatality rate. My own life isn't much affected by the death rate, it's highly affected by the absolute number of deaths, because that's what increases the likelihood it'll be me or someone I know.

[Anonymous]

If any white collar worker calls for rapid , let him or her eschew telework and ride the Metro in to work. Cloth one-ply face mask,
gloves, and a quarter full bottle of CVS brand hand sanitizer that expired in 2017 are permitted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If any white collar worker calls for rapid , let him or her eschew telework and ride the Metro in to work. Cloth one-ply face mask,
gloves, and a quarter full bottle of CVS brand hand sanitizer that expired in 2017 are permitted

^ reopening

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

The risk is minuscule. The fatality rate is less than 2%! And judging by recent reports that are many more asymptomatic cases than previously thought, the fatality rate would be even lower.

What is 1.5% of 350,000,000?

The actual death rate is around .3% according to recent studies.

Link?

The Lancet stated .66% back in March:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext

Italian studies have it closer to .3% due to their research showing many more asymptomatic patients then they expected.

Link to 0.3%?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

The risk is minuscule. The fatality rate is less than 2%! And judging by recent reports that are many more asymptomatic cases than previously thought, the fatality rate would be even lower.

What is 1.5% of 350,000,000?

The actual death rate is around .3% according to recent studies.

Link?

The Lancet stated .66% back in March:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext

Italian studies have it closer to .3% due to their research showing many more asymptomatic patients then they expected.

More asymptomatic patients also means more people have had it than we realize which could still mean large numbers of deaths from a lower fatality rate. My own life isn't much affected by the death rate, it's highly affected by the absolute number of deaths, because that's what increases the likelihood it'll be me or someone I know.

If more people have had it and haven't died from it. Why are you twisting yourself into a pretzel to increase deaths? The reality is, it's not containable, and will probably have to run its course. New news came out yesterday is that it's sensitive to UV light, like most coronaviruses are. We have UV lights inside our main heating/air-conditioning system. Might be time for businesses to do the same - they aren't too pricey. It also means the stronger sunlight during summer will help it die out.

The simple truth is people are going to die of this virus. Time to make China pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

The risk is minuscule. The fatality rate is less than 2%! And judging by recent reports that are many more asymptomatic cases than previously thought, the fatality rate would be even lower.

What is 1.5% of 350,000,000?

The actual death rate is around .3% according to recent studies.

Link?

The Lancet stated .66% back in March:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext

Italian studies have it closer to .3% due to their research showing many more asymptomatic patients then they expected.

Link to 0.3%?

It's an Italian study. I'll see what I can do to re-find it. Unfortunately, when I do a search,there are pages and pages of mainstream touting the old WHO numbers instead of the more recent ones from legitimate medical research journals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

The risk is minuscule. The fatality rate is less than 2%! And judging by recent reports that are many more asymptomatic cases than previously thought, the fatality rate would be even lower.

What is 1.5% of 350,000,000?

The actual death rate is around .3% according to recent studies.

Link?

The Lancet stated .66% back in March:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext

Italian studies have it closer to .3% due to their research showing many more asymptomatic patients then they expected.

More asymptomatic patients also means more people have had it than we realize which could still mean large numbers of deaths from a lower fatality rate. My own life isn't much affected by the death rate, it's highly affected by the absolute number of deaths, because that's what increases the likelihood it'll be me or someone I know.

If more people have had it and haven't died from it. Why are you twisting yourself into a pretzel to increase deaths? The reality is, it's not containable, and will probably have to run its course. New news came out yesterday is that it's sensitive to UV light, like most coronaviruses are. We have UV lights inside our main heating/air-conditioning system. Might be time for businesses to do the same - they aren't too pricey. It also means the stronger sunlight during summer will help it die out.

The simple truth is people are going to die of this virus. Time to make China pay.

It's not twisting anything into a pretzel to observe that more cases can equal more deaths even if it also lowers the rate. That's just basic math. Maybe you're happy to glibly announce that people will die and then embark on some revenge fantasy about China, but I'm not willing to do that to my loved ones. I'll be making the sacrifices necessary to keep them safe.