Disney primarily for the wealthy? NYT Article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very impressive that Disney seems to have created something that is so incredibly appealing to some people. I went once as a child and enjoyed it, and took my kids once when they were younger, and we liked it, but none of us has any desire to go again. What for? We had a good time, but we did the rides and saw the shows and why would we do those again? But it’s clear that many many people do want to keep going back, and I wonder what people see that I don’t.

For me, growing up in Florida in the 70s, it was a place of total joy. It was colorful and fun. I often went with student groups so me and my friends were off on our own, exploring and joking around. Waiting in lines wasn't a hardship because we were together and free for the day. And the rides and shows always sparked my imagination.

As a parent I have loved it because your child is always welcome and Disney puts them on a pedestal. From the Baby Centers to the kids menus to the characters that comfort crying kids, you don't have worry about being out of place. They also are very accommodating with allergies.

This bears repeating. In a society which really doesn't cater to children, I have appreciated the centering of the kid experience. The baby centers were a game changer for us when our potty training toddler was afraid of the automatic flush in public toilets. Disney was the only place that made lavish accommodations with that level of detail— yes even including luxury global travel.

I'm confused -- is it just you used the restrooms within the baby center and they didn't have the auto flush? Or did you put your potty training kid in pull ups and just changed them in the baby center?

I don't quite understand how this is different from any other facility with a baby/nursing center. Nats Park has a nursing room with a small play area for kids and a bathroom. It is definitely better than not having a nursing center but this isn't something unique to Disney. I actually don't find Disney to be a great destination for very young kids, other than the option of staying on site and being able to take kids back to the hotel for naps and then return. I think ages 7-12 are prime age for Disney and I would prefer to take a younger kid to something smaller in scale and less expensive, like Dutch Wonderland or Sesame Street. The size of Disney and a lot of the content is just way better suited to older kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know how that family spent 8 grand on the vacation they describe.

Also the scooter fiasco was not Disney's fault.

It's partly the number of people involved. Three generations. I agree they had a very specific situation with the grandmother having serious mobility issues and then trying to plan a trip for such a vast range of ages with people staying at different hotels. It's really not representative of what it's like for a family of four.

I think the article would have been much more interesting to compare the experience of a family of 4 making a middle class income, versus a wealthy family of 4, and how their experiences vary. You can certainly find both kinds of families at Disney. I would be curious to see how much time each family spent standing in line, what experiences they had that the other family didn't, and how they ultimately felt about the value of the trip.

The article instead focused on families on extreme ends of the spectrum with very specific situations (the wealthy family was just a rich dad and his one tween daughter, who also sounded like they'd been to Disney multiple times before). I don't feel like either family is representative of a lot of other families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very impressive that Disney seems to have created something that is so incredibly appealing to some people. I went once as a child and enjoyed it, and took my kids once when they were younger, and we liked it, but none of us has any desire to go again. What for? We had a good time, but we did the rides and saw the shows and why would we do those again? But it’s clear that many many people do want to keep going back, and I wonder what people see that I don’t.

For me, growing up in Florida in the 70s, it was a place of total joy. It was colorful and fun. I often went with student groups so me and my friends were off on our own, exploring and joking around. Waiting in lines wasn't a hardship because we were together and free for the day. And the rides and shows always sparked my imagination.

As a parent I have loved it because your child is always welcome and Disney puts them on a pedestal. From the Baby Centers to the kids menus to the characters that comfort crying kids, you don't have worry about being out of place. They also are very accommodating with allergies.

This bears repeating. In a society which really doesn't cater to children, I have appreciated the centering of the kid experience. The baby centers were a game changer for us when our potty training toddler was afraid of the automatic flush in public toilets. Disney was the only place that made lavish accommodations with that level of detail— yes even including luxury global travel.

I'm confused -- is it just you used the restrooms within the baby center and they didn't have the auto flush? Or did you put your potty training kid in pull ups and just changed them in the baby center?

I don't quite understand how this is different from any other facility with a baby/nursing center. Nats Park has a nursing room with a small play area for kids and a bathroom. It is definitely better than not having a nursing center but this isn't something unique to Disney. I actually don't find Disney to be a great destination for very young kids, other than the option of staying on site and being able to take kids back to the hotel for naps and then return. I think ages 7-12 are prime age for Disney and I would prefer to take a younger kid to something smaller in scale and less expensive, like Dutch Wonderland or Sesame Street. The size of Disney and a lot of the content is just way better suited to older kids.

Dutch Wonderland has nothing like the Disney baby setup. It’s a room of toddler scaled toilets with manual flush with scaled sinks. Real changing tables that aren’t bolted to a wall and are scrupulously clean. High chairs, bottle warmers, and staff to make sure its clean, that your kid had a sticker at the end, to keep people from knocking on the door while you're using a nursing room…really cant say enough.

And while yes, Disney had more to do for 8-13, family is big and I have the youngest kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT runs this story about every 5 to 10 years. I see it over and over again.

30 years ago, we bought into the Disney Vacation Club because I had grown up going to WDW and knew I would want to continue going.

So rooms people are paying $1,000 a night for I am paying like $100 a night for.

I have a full kitchen so can mostlyeat in, can walk, bus, monorail or gondola to the 4 parks, and a series of pools to choose from at the resort. And if I bring my car parking is free.

Tickets are expensive, it's true. That is what keeps crowds manageable. We either get annual passes and go multiple times a year, or get a 4 day pass for two of us, while the others focus on pool time.

We always have a great time. We have used our DVC timeshare for beach trips, cruises, Disneyland and Chicago too.

We we travel to other places, we always notice the tickets for almost everything is sky-high these days, even the state fair. Disney is not an outlier here.

Disney has their parks open 16 hours some days. And they have way upped their high end rides. And almost nightly fireworks and parades! These things are not cheap.

Factor in your monthly/annual DVC dues. Then what is the actual cost? DVC isn’t free.

I DID factor in the annual dues cost.

No, DVC isn't free, but it was a bargain when I bought 30 years ago.

It’s a timeshare though, not everyone wants to be be saddled with that lifelong obligation.

True but you can rent DVC rooms through owners for a fraction of the rack rate.

[Anonymous]

I once forgot my diaper bag in the room at Disney. I realized when I got to the park.

I just went to the baby center and they had everything I needed fir the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why PPs keep scolding everyone that they are “doing it wrong” if they are waiting for more than an hour for rides. I’ve looked at the wait times in the app and many are very long.

What is the right way to: go on all or most of the top rides (not Spaceship Earth), not spend lots of money on top of the park tickets, and not do things like take kids out of school?
Genuine question!

You go at opening and ride a few rides. When lines get too long and it starts getting hot, you go back to your hotel and hang out by the pool, or you do filler attractions and shows. You return to the park in the evening when wait times begin to dip again. There are only a handful of attractions that will be an hour wait regardless of when you get in line (maybe one or two attractions per park.) For those, you either wait the hour+ or you cough up the cash to skip the line. Many people jump on those lines at closing because the ride will remain open until they clear the queue, so it isn’t eating into normal operating hours.

So you didn't read the article this entire thread is based on.

If you don't stay on property (which is more expensive), you can't be there at opening to get short lines. If you don't stay on property, you can't just leave and return in the middle of the day. There are line skipping options but they cost more money. Many of the filler attractions and shows you suggest also cost more money.

Yes there is a way to do Disney that involves spending less time in lines, but it costs more money and is out of reach to many families. The article literally describes this dichotomy with one middle/working class family who saved for years to go to Disney and winds up missing out on some stuff they really wanted to do and spending a lot of time in lines, and a wealthy dad and his daughter who have a leisurely trip where they do everything they want and have a great time. Obviously anyone would choose to be the wealthy dad and his family. That costs money.

The reason people keep bringing up Europe is not because Europe and Disney are the same thing or that one is inherently better than the other. It's because for a long time, a middle class family couldn't afford a trip to Europe (which can also be done more affordably IF you are savvy and have time to plan) but they could have a fun trip to Disney. Now Disney is more akin to going to Europe for more families -- something that is simply out of reach.

Um, no. In the article they stay at an All Star, which is on property and receives the same early entry as every other resort on property. The value resorts are priced comparably to nearby hotels, often less than $200 a night. So the family in the article got the early entry and bus service to and from the parks.

The main point is that Disney is now charging for services that used to be complimentary, and the booking process benefits those who stay longer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why PPs keep scolding everyone that they are “doing it wrong” if they are waiting for more than an hour for rides. I’ve looked at the wait times in the app and many are very long.

What is the right way to: go on all or most of the top rides (not Spaceship Earth), not spend lots of money on top of the park tickets, and not do things like take kids out of school?
Genuine question!

You go at opening and ride a few rides. When lines get too long and it starts getting hot, you go back to your hotel and hang out by the pool, or you do filler attractions and shows. You return to the park in the evening when wait times begin to dip again. There are only a handful of attractions that will be an hour wait regardless of when you get in line (maybe one or two attractions per park.) For those, you either wait the hour+ or you cough up the cash to skip the line. Many people jump on those lines at closing because the ride will remain open until they clear the queue, so it isn’t eating into normal operating hours.

So you didn't read the article this entire thread is based on.

If you don't stay on property (which is more expensive), you can't be there at opening to get short lines. If you don't stay on property, you can't just leave and return in the middle of the day. There are line skipping options but they cost more money. Many of the filler attractions and shows you suggest also cost more money.

Yes there is a way to do Disney that involves spending less time in lines, but it costs more money and is out of reach to many families. The article literally describes this dichotomy with one middle/working class family who saved for years to go to Disney and winds up missing out on some stuff they really wanted to do and spending a lot of time in lines, and a wealthy dad and his daughter who have a leisurely trip where they do everything they want and have a great time. Obviously anyone would choose to be the wealthy dad and his family. That costs money.

The reason people keep bringing up Europe is not because Europe and Disney are the same thing or that one is inherently better than the other. It's because for a long time, a middle class family couldn't afford a trip to Europe (which can also be done more affordably IF you are savvy and have time to plan) but they could have a fun trip to Disney. Now Disney is more akin to going to Europe for more families -- something that is simply out of reach.

Um, no. In the article they stay at an All Star, which is on property and receives the same early entry as every other resort on property. The value resorts are priced comparably to nearby hotels, often less than $200 a night. So the family in the article got the early entry and bus service to and from the parks.

The main point is that Disney is now charging for services that used to be complimentary, and the booking process benefits those who stay longer.

The Cressels stayed off site at a timeshare per the article. That was part of their problem. No early entry, long drive there, late window to book the lightning lanes (3 days instead of 7 day advance). This made a lot of their trip harder than it needed to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standing in multiple lines during my vacation among the masses is not appealing to me at all.

Others feel differently 🤷🏼‍♀️

Kind of like Paris and Rome?

DP but that is very different. Paris and Rome are not amusement parks where the whole point is to move from one activity with a line to the next activity with a line, and where certain very popular activities (with long lines) is pretty much the entire reason for going. Some people will treat them that way, just hitting the the big highlights that are always mobbed with people, but unlike Disney, you could skip literally all of the line-heavy activities and still have a wonderful, immersive, memorable trip. A lot of the stuff in Paris that gets mobbed actually makes no sense to me. The Eiffel Tower is meant to be viewed from a distance (and is visible from like 90% of the city) -- going to the base and standing in line to go up it seems like a colossal waste of time to me.

You can go to Paris and wander Monmarte and the Latin Quarter, go to the flea market, hit a couple of the smaller museums (skip the Louvre, you will not be shortchanged on art if you instead go to Rodin or l'Orangerie), eat at an amazing restaurant every night, do a behind-the-scenes tour of the Opera house, picnic within view of the Eiffel Tower, get a croissant or pain au chocolate every morning at a different wonderful bakery, experience cafe culture, visit several gorgeous gardens, walk the Champs Elysee and the Tuileries, and visit a wide variety of Paris shops, and never stand in a line longer than a few people long.

There is no version of Disney like this that is worth experiencing, without paying through the nose for line skipping passes.

Monmarte? I’m embarrassed for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I noticed when planning our Disney vacation years ago that for a lot of Disney people, the planning is almost as exciting as the actual going to the parks. As soon as they come home, they start planning the next trip.
I don’t mind planning for a trip. I enjoy it. But with Disney, it takes extra coordination during the trip. I don’t want to have to be on my phone still planning the day during the trip.

This is me. I enjoy trip planning but not for Disney. There should be a version of Disney that is like going to a mid-priced carribean all inclusive resort. It doesn't have to be luxury but I want to be able to go for 2 days, ride the main things and see the main things and stay in reasonably ok accommodations and eat okay food, but without paying 10k per day. That's where the disconnect is. If you could find a way to make Disney about as affordable as a trip to a mid-level resort in Puerto Rico, I could get on board. The minute people start talking about logging onto the app first thing in the morning to get my lightening pass booked, I zone out and start thinking about other vacations.

Disney does not have to cost 10k a day.

I don’t think you’re interested in going but you could choose to stay on property at one of the pop century resorts (which are very reasonably priced, under $200 a night at times). Stay for four nights alternating park days and pool days. Accept that there are a few select rides that are too much of a pain to try for. Pay for the genie and sign up for lightening lanes throughout the day (I do know what people are doing this does not require you being on your phone all day).

Log into the website a month or two before and make some dining reservations.

Voila. Not 10k a day. Not waiting in insane lines. Not staring at your phone all day.

Will you ride every most sought after ride doing this? No. Can you have a perfectly good time doing this? Definitely.

People are acting like the only Disney trip worth taking is staying at the grand Floridian with the $400 premium pass. It’s really not, you just have to be more chill, go in the off season and have reasonable expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT runs this story about every 5 to 10 years. I see it over and over again.

30 years ago, we bought into the Disney Vacation Club because I had grown up going to WDW and knew I would want to continue going.

So rooms people are paying $1,000 a night for I am paying like $100 a night for.

I have a full kitchen so can mostlyeat in, can walk, bus, monorail or gondola to the 4 parks, and a series of pools to choose from at the resort. And if I bring my car parking is free.

Tickets are expensive, it's true. That is what keeps crowds manageable. We either get annual passes and go multiple times a year, or get a 4 day pass for two of us, while the others focus on pool time.

We always have a great time. We have used our DVC timeshare for beach trips, cruises, Disneyland and Chicago too.

We we travel to other places, we always notice the tickets for almost everything is sky-high these days, even the state fair. Disney is not an outlier here.

Disney has their parks open 16 hours some days. And they have way upped their high end rides. And almost nightly fireworks and parades! These things are not cheap.

Factor in your monthly/annual DVC dues. Then what is the actual cost? DVC isn’t free.

I DID factor in the annual dues cost.

No, DVC isn't free, but it was a bargain when I bought 30 years ago.

It’s a timeshare though, not everyone wants to be be saddled with that lifelong obligation.

There is a robust resale market for DVC, so you really are not stuck in it. I bought our contract on the secondary market for a contact that expires in 2042. Not as good a deal as the PP who bought 30 years ago but we have only had it a year and already recouped about half the cost of the contract compared to rack rates (this in part because it had extra rolled over points).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why PPs keep scolding everyone that they are “doing it wrong” if they are waiting for more than an hour for rides. I’ve looked at the wait times in the app and many are very long.

What is the right way to: go on all or most of the top rides (not Spaceship Earth), not spend lots of money on top of the park tickets, and not do things like take kids out of school?
Genuine question!

You go at opening and ride a few rides. When lines get too long and it starts getting hot, you go back to your hotel and hang out by the pool, or you do filler attractions and shows. You return to the park in the evening when wait times begin to dip again. There are only a handful of attractions that will be an hour wait regardless of when you get in line (maybe one or two attractions per park.) For those, you either wait the hour+ or you cough up the cash to skip the line. Many people jump on those lines at closing because the ride will remain open until they clear the queue, so it isn’t eating into normal operating hours.

But you can also get Multipass and skip most of the line for most rides.

So, spend more money.

Yeah I don’t like the extreme nickle and diming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very impressive that Disney seems to have created something that is so incredibly appealing to some people. I went once as a child and enjoyed it, and took my kids once when they were younger, and we liked it, but none of us has any desire to go again. What for? We had a good time, but we did the rides and saw the shows and why would we do those again? But it’s clear that many many people do want to keep going back, and I wonder what people see that I don’t.

For me, growing up in Florida in the 70s, it was a place of total joy. It was colorful and fun. I often went with student groups so me and my friends were off on our own, exploring and joking around. Waiting in lines wasn't a hardship because we were together and free for the day. And the rides and shows always sparked my imagination.

As a parent I have loved it because your child is always welcome and Disney puts them on a pedestal. From the Baby Centers to the kids menus to the characters that comfort crying kids, you don't have worry about being out of place. They also are very accommodating with allergies.

This bears repeating. In a society which really doesn't cater to children, I have appreciated the centering of the kid experience. The baby centers were a game changer for us when our potty training toddler was afraid of the automatic flush in public toilets. Disney was the only place that made lavish accommodations with that level of detail— yes even including luxury global travel.

This is why I don’t go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why PPs keep scolding everyone that they are “doing it wrong” if they are waiting for more than an hour for rides. I’ve looked at the wait times in the app and many are very long.

What is the right way to: go on all or most of the top rides (not Spaceship Earth), not spend lots of money on top of the park tickets, and not do things like take kids out of school?
Genuine question!

You go at opening and ride a few rides. When lines get too long and it starts getting hot, you go back to your hotel and hang out by the pool, or you do filler attractions and shows. You return to the park in the evening when wait times begin to dip again. There are only a handful of attractions that will be an hour wait regardless of when you get in line (maybe one or two attractions per park.) For those, you either wait the hour+ or you cough up the cash to skip the line. Many people jump on those lines at closing because the ride will remain open until they clear the queue, so it isn’t eating into normal operating hours.

But you can also get Multipass and skip most of the line for most rides.

So, spend more money.

Yeah I don’t like the extreme nickle and diming.

Who isn't doing this now? Every where you go now has preferred seating, VIP access, skip the line, etc. Everyone is chasing that last dollar from those most able to spend. That's the actual point of the article. That's the only place to make money. The middle class is maxed out.

[Anonymous]

This article is a great illustration of how much of a mindf*** American capitalism is — thinking that this one reprieve from our realities of ill health, poor education, disconnected communities, is some kind of dream come true, when in reality it’s a total empty waste of time and money. People who strive for this whole gross kind of vacation are so lost. I know different strokes and all that, but these poor (literally and figuratively) people deserve better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very impressive that Disney seems to have created something that is so incredibly appealing to some people. I went once as a child and enjoyed it, and took my kids once when they were younger, and we liked it, but none of us has any desire to go again. What for? We had a good time, but we did the rides and saw the shows and why would we do those again? But it’s clear that many many people do want to keep going back, and I wonder what people see that I don’t.

For me, growing up in Florida in the 70s, it was a place of total joy. It was colorful and fun. I often went with student groups so me and my friends were off on our own, exploring and joking around. Waiting in lines wasn't a hardship because we were together and free for the day. And the rides and shows always sparked my imagination.

As a parent I have loved it because your child is always welcome and Disney puts them on a pedestal. From the Baby Centers to the kids menus to the characters that comfort crying kids, you don't have worry about being out of place. They also are very accommodating with allergies.

This bears repeating. In a society which really doesn't cater to children, I have appreciated the centering of the kid experience. The baby centers were a game changer for us when our potty training toddler was afraid of the automatic flush in public toilets. Disney was the only place that made lavish accommodations with that level of detail— yes even including luxury global travel.

This is why I don’t go.

That was my parents’ (and especially my dad’s) attitude and now I go 1-2 times a year with my kids. Funny how these things go.