If TJ has such smart kids, why so much cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

RWNJs love to trash public schools because they want vouchers to subsidize their kids’ private school tuition. ScHoOl ChOicE

Charter schools are a thing. You don't need to subsidize private schools to create school choice.

They're usually a scam that just siphons off public money.

That's a pretty ignorant view considering all the evidence that Charter schools are frequently superior to public schools.
https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/charter-schools-now-outperform-traditional-public-schools-sweeping-study-finds/2023/06

With that said, there are definitely states that do not regulate charter schools and that creates room for scams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

To a significant extent yes.

You really didn’t answer the question that was actually asked above. The question is not whether you think the public school system is some kind of monopoly, but in what way you think it is a monopoly. *How* is it a monopoly? How does it fit into the definition of a monopoly?

A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell'), as described by Irving Fisher, is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Public education enjoys an absence of competition for the service it provides.

Wrong, lots of people choose private.

Private school provides choices for people who can afford private school tuition but it does not provide any choice for families that cannot afford private school tuition.
You clearly live in a world where going to public school is a choice and not a necessity but these are not the parts of the FCPS school system that needs the competition.
McLean High School, Langley High School and pretty much every school in high SES neighborhoods where parents can afford private school are pretty good.
The competition is necessary in neighborhoods where the families don't have that option.
As far as they are concerned, public schools are an absolute monopoly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Poster.

I do think having say about 10% of schools as charter schools would provide competition. Rank schools on whatever measure and schools which stay in the bottom 5% for 5 years can then be handed over to private companies. Something of that sort. Likewise bottom 20% of charter schools that remain for 3 years would change back to a different owner with some financial penalities, etc.

This would give a benchmark for public schools.

Right now we have a lot of waste in public schools on purchasing useless software, renaming schools, etc. Having some competition and consequences would be helpful in improving schools overall.

I support public schools but as we see with any Govt services it tends towards bureaucracy.

Sounds good but it's been tried and always fails. Charters are even more wasteful and it ends up hurting the kids.

That is pretty counter-factual.

https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/charter-schools-now-outperform-traditional-public-schools-sweeping-study-finds/2023/06

Unregulated charter school suck. Well regulated charter school programs like in NYC can provide crucial outlets for educational opportunity to creep into URM neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

RWNJs love to trash public schools because they want vouchers to subsidize their kids’ private school tuition. ScHoOl ChOicE

Charter schools are a thing. You don't need to subsidize private schools to create school choice.

It's not school choice if the schools can reject the applicants. It's school choice for attractive applicants, who frequently don't need school choice.

FCPS and Northern Virginia in general are the envy of America when it comes to public school quality. There is absolutely no need to subsidize other options here using public money. When Northern Virginians are advocating for "school choice", what they're looking for is a government handout to lower their outlay for private schools. And they're doing it at the expense of kids who would get rejected from either private schools or whatever charters might pop up as a result.

Charter schools generally cannot reject applicants. If they are oversubscribed, admissions is subject to a lottery.
School vouchers for rich people is a bad idea but charter schools seem like they can be a good thing if well regulated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

To a significant extent yes.

You really didn’t answer the question that was actually asked above. The question is not whether you think the public school system is some kind of monopoly, but in what way you think it is a monopoly. *How* is it a monopoly? How does it fit into the definition of a monopoly?

A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell'), as described by Irving Fisher, is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Public education enjoys an absence of competition for the service it provides.

Sorry, but public education is in no way the only supplier of education where I live. There are all sorts of private schools available that provide education, plus it is perfectly legal to homeschool one’s children. No one is forcing anyone to go to public schools. There are lots of choices available.

That is a pretty privileged attitude.
Neighborhoods like yours don't need school competition, the parents already have plenty of choices. Real viable choices.
It's poor neighborhoods that need school choice.
Those parents can't afford private school.
Those parents can't afford to stay home and homeschool their kids. They have to work.
There is no competition for their business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

To a significant extent yes.

You really didn’t answer the question that was actually asked above. The question is not whether you think the public school system is some kind of monopoly, but in what way you think it is a monopoly. *How* is it a monopoly? How does it fit into the definition of a monopoly?

A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell'), as described by Irving Fisher, is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Public education enjoys an absence of competition for the service it provides.

Wrong, lots of people choose private.

Private school provides choices for people who can afford private school tuition but it does not provide any choice for families that cannot afford private school tuition.
You clearly live in a world where going to public school is a choice and not a necessity but these are not the parts of the FCPS school system that needs the competition.
McLean High School, Langley High School and pretty much every school in high SES neighborhoods where parents can afford private school are pretty good.
The competition is necessary in neighborhoods where the families don't have that option.
As far as they are concerned, public schools are an absolute monopoly.

People often forget that charter schools aren't required to admit the students who apply for admission. A big part of the reason that they frequently appear to perform better than public schools is that they have the ability to select their own students from a broader applicant pool, so their results aren't depressed by the students who exist at any public school who are just going through the motions.

If your kid, for whatever reason, is not attractive to the charter school in question, you're not going to have school choice in the way that conservatives frequently promise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

To a significant extent yes.

You really didn’t answer the question that was actually asked above. The question is not whether you think the public school system is some kind of monopoly, but in what way you think it is a monopoly. *How* is it a monopoly? How does it fit into the definition of a monopoly?

A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell'), as described by Irving Fisher, is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Public education enjoys an absence of competition for the service it provides.

Wrong, lots of people choose private.

Private school provides choices for people who can afford private school tuition but it does not provide any choice for families that cannot afford private school tuition.
You clearly live in a world where going to public school is a choice and not a necessity but these are not the parts of the FCPS school system that needs the competition.
McLean High School, Langley High School and pretty much every school in high SES neighborhoods where parents can afford private school are pretty good.
The competition is necessary in neighborhoods where the families don't have that option.
As far as they are concerned, public schools are an absolute monopoly.

People often forget that charter schools aren't required to admit the students who apply for admission. A big part of the reason that they frequently appear to perform better than public schools is that they have the ability to select their own students from a broader applicant pool, so their results aren't depressed by the students who exist at any public school who are just going through the motions.

If your kid, for whatever reason, is not attractive to the charter school in question, you're not going to have school choice in the way that conservatives frequently promise.

That is not how it works in most cities. Charter schools that are oversubscribed have to admit by lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

To a significant extent yes.

You really didn’t answer the question that was actually asked above. The question is not whether you think the public school system is some kind of monopoly, but in what way you think it is a monopoly. *How* is it a monopoly? How does it fit into the definition of a monopoly?

A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell'), as described by Irving Fisher, is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Public education enjoys an absence of competition for the service it provides.

Wrong, lots of people choose private.

Private school provides choices for people who can afford private school tuition but it does not provide any choice for families that cannot afford private school tuition.
You clearly live in a world where going to public school is a choice and not a necessity but these are not the parts of the FCPS school system that needs the competition.
McLean High School, Langley High School and pretty much every school in high SES neighborhoods where parents can afford private school are pretty good.
The competition is necessary in neighborhoods where the families don't have that option.
As far as they are concerned, public schools are an absolute monopoly.

People often forget that charter schools aren't required to admit the students who apply for admission. A big part of the reason that they frequently appear to perform better than public schools is that they have the ability to select their own students from a broader applicant pool, so their results aren't depressed by the students who exist at any public school who are just going through the motions.

If your kid, for whatever reason, is not attractive to the charter school in question, you're not going to have school choice in the way that conservatives frequently promise.

Yeah, the conservatives that support charter schools like the Clintons, the Obamas, Bill & Melinda Gates, you mean those conservatives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

To a significant extent yes.

You really didn’t answer the question that was actually asked above. The question is not whether you think the public school system is some kind of monopoly, but in what way you think it is a monopoly. *How* is it a monopoly? How does it fit into the definition of a monopoly?

A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell'), as described by Irving Fisher, is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Public education enjoys an absence of competition for the service it provides.

Sorry, but public education is in no way the only supplier of education where I live. There are all sorts of private schools available that provide education, plus it is perfectly legal to homeschool one’s children. No one is forcing anyone to go to public schools. There are lots of choices available.

That is a pretty privileged attitude.
Neighborhoods like yours don't need school competition, the parents already have plenty of choices. Real viable choices.
It's poor neighborhoods that need school choice.
Those parents can't afford private school.
Those parents can't afford to stay home and homeschool their kids. They have to work.
There is no competition for their business.

There is a choice that is 100% free to students. There are lots of people in this world who are not getting that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

To a significant extent yes.

You really didn’t answer the question that was actually asked above. The question is not whether you think the public school system is some kind of monopoly, but in what way you think it is a monopoly. *How* is it a monopoly? How does it fit into the definition of a monopoly?

A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell'), as described by Irving Fisher, is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Public education enjoys an absence of competition for the service it provides.

Wrong, lots of people choose private.

Private school provides choices for people who can afford private school tuition but it does not provide any choice for families that cannot afford private school tuition.
You clearly live in a world where going to public school is a choice and not a necessity but these are not the parts of the FCPS school system that needs the competition.
McLean High School, Langley High School and pretty much every school in high SES neighborhoods where parents can afford private school are pretty good.
The competition is necessary in neighborhoods where the families don't have that option.
As far as they are concerned, public schools are an absolute monopoly.

People often forget that charter schools aren't required to admit the students who apply for admission. A big part of the reason that they frequently appear to perform better than public schools is that they have the ability to select their own students from a broader applicant pool, so their results aren't depressed by the students who exist at any public school who are just going through the motions.

If your kid, for whatever reason, is not attractive to the charter school in question, you're not going to have school choice in the way that conservatives frequently promise.

That is not how it works in most cities. Charter schools that are oversubscribed have to admit by lottery.

Still means a lot of kids get turned down. And in most cases there are minimum requirements for participation in the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

RWNJs love to trash public schools because they want vouchers to subsidize their kids’ private school tuition. ScHoOl ChOicE

Charter schools are a thing. You don't need to subsidize private schools to create school choice.

They're usually a scam that just siphons off public money.

That's a pretty ignorant view considering all the evidence that Charter schools are frequently superior to public schools.
https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/charter-schools-now-outperform-traditional-public-schools-sweeping-study-finds/2023/06

With that said, there are definitely states that do not regulate charter schools and that creates room for scams.

The PP was correct they're scams largely supported by right-wing grifters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

RWNJs love to trash public schools because they want vouchers to subsidize their kids’ private school tuition. ScHoOl ChOicE

Charter schools are a thing. You don't need to subsidize private schools to create school choice.

They're usually a scam that just siphons off public money.

That's a pretty ignorant view considering all the evidence that Charter schools are frequently superior to public schools.
https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/charter-schools-now-outperform-traditional-public-schools-sweeping-study-finds/2023/06

With that said, there are definitely states that do not regulate charter schools and that creates room for scams.

The PP was correct they're scams largely supported by right-wing grifters.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

To a significant extent yes.

You really didn’t answer the question that was actually asked above. The question is not whether you think the public school system is some kind of monopoly, but in what way you think it is a monopoly. *How* is it a monopoly? How does it fit into the definition of a monopoly?

A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell'), as described by Irving Fisher, is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Public education enjoys an absence of competition for the service it provides.

Sorry, but public education is in no way the only supplier of education where I live. There are all sorts of private schools available that provide education, plus it is perfectly legal to homeschool one’s children. No one is forcing anyone to go to public schools. There are lots of choices available.

That is a pretty privileged attitude.
Neighborhoods like yours don't need school competition, the parents already have plenty of choices. Real viable choices.
It's poor neighborhoods that need school choice.
Those parents can't afford private school.
Those parents can't afford to stay home and homeschool their kids. They have to work.
There is no competition for their business.

There is a choice that is 100% free to students. There are lots of people in this world who are not getting that choice.

And when you only have that one choice, it is called a monopoly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

To a significant extent yes.

You really didn’t answer the question that was actually asked above. The question is not whether you think the public school system is some kind of monopoly, but in what way you think it is a monopoly. *How* is it a monopoly? How does it fit into the definition of a monopoly?

A monopoly (from Greek μόνος, mónos, 'single, alone' and πωλεῖν, pōleîn, 'to sell'), as described by Irving Fisher, is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.

Public education enjoys an absence of competition for the service it provides.

Wrong, lots of people choose private.

Private school provides choices for people who can afford private school tuition but it does not provide any choice for families that cannot afford private school tuition.
You clearly live in a world where going to public school is a choice and not a necessity but these are not the parts of the FCPS school system that needs the competition.
McLean High School, Langley High School and pretty much every school in high SES neighborhoods where parents can afford private school are pretty good.
The competition is necessary in neighborhoods where the families don't have that option.
As far as they are concerned, public schools are an absolute monopoly.

People often forget that charter schools aren't required to admit the students who apply for admission. A big part of the reason that they frequently appear to perform better than public schools is that they have the ability to select their own students from a broader applicant pool, so their results aren't depressed by the students who exist at any public school who are just going through the motions.

If your kid, for whatever reason, is not attractive to the charter school in question, you're not going to have school choice in the way that conservatives frequently promise.

That is not how it works in most cities. Charter schools that are oversubscribed have to admit by lottery.

Still means a lot of kids get turned down. And in most cases there are minimum requirements for participation in the lottery.

Not in well regulated charter school programs, you have to take all comers and if you are oversubscribed, you are selected by lottery. if there aren't enough charter school spots, what does it say about the need for charter schools? What does it say about the public education system the6y are fleeing? Charter schools are most effective in poor neighborhoods because those are the public schools that don't have to compete.

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Anonymous wrote:This problem starts with parents who bend the rules to give their kids an unfair advantage. They start to believe the ends justify the means.

The problem is FCPS is a monopoly. There is no competition and there are not many other choices for parents and students.
FCPS becomes incompetent and lazy. Why would they keep using old test materials again and again (if the claim from previous posters that wealthy kids already knew the test materials before the test was legit)?

So, it’s not the fault of the people who illicitly gathered test questions into a “bank,” it’s the fault of people who give the test with the idea that people will be honest?

Whew, that is some complicated ethical gymnastics we’re going through here…

(And FCPS is not a monopoly- there are plenty of private schools available. No one is forcing children to go to a public school over private or to apply to TJ over their base school.)

The availability of private schools are a fairly bad argument that people have choice.

Well, public schools are free to all and no one is forced to attend public school if they prefer to make other choices. In what sense are you saying that FCPS, a public school system, is a “monopoly”?

RWNJs love to trash public schools because they want vouchers to subsidize their kids’ private school tuition. ScHoOl ChOicE

Charter schools are a thing. You don't need to subsidize private schools to create school choice.

They're usually a scam that just siphons off public money.

That's a pretty ignorant view considering all the evidence that Charter schools are frequently superior to public schools.
https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/charter-schools-now-outperform-traditional-public-schools-sweeping-study-finds/2023/06

With that said, there are definitely states that do not regulate charter schools and that creates room for scams.

The PP was correct they're scams largely supported by right-wing grifters.

Once again, do you mean right wing grifters like the Clinton, the Obamas, Bill & Melinda Gates?