Why is Friendship Heights so empty and lame?

[Anonymous]

More apartments and retail are being built there as we write this. I predict a recovery of this as and attractive neighborhood to live/shop/eat in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole neighborhood got old all of a sudden - Lord and Taylor and Mazza were in steep decline for a decade before Covid hit. It's still in a good location and could be appealing again in 5-10 years.

I'm convinced that retail/restaurant neighborhoods are inherently cyclical and whatever is hip and happening today will be Georgetown or White Flint Mall tomorrow.

While there is some cyclical turnover, Friendship Heights is the same bad suburban design that's struggling elsewhere. Its not going to get much of a recovery in 5-10 years if better places keep getting built in the city and region.

You can't run a six lane stroad through a shopping district and expect success anymore. People will just got to better places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole neighborhood got old all of a sudden - Lord and Taylor and Mazza were in steep decline for a decade before Covid hit. It's still in a good location and could be appealing again in 5-10 years.

I'm convinced that retail/restaurant neighborhoods are inherently cyclical and whatever is hip and happening today will be Georgetown or White Flint Mall tomorrow.

While there is some cyclical turnover, Friendship Heights is the same bad suburban design that's struggling elsewhere. Its not going to get much of a recovery in 5-10 years if better places keep getting built in the city and region.

You can't run a six lane stroad through a shopping district and expect success anymore. People will just got to better places.

“6 lane road” is a misleading description. Each side is a parking lane and 2 traffic lanes. When I want to cross Wisconsin Ave. I walk to the nearest crosswalk which is never far, push the signal button, and wait not very long for a walk signal. Maybe you’re thinking of some other neighborhood, or the stretch of Wisconsin Ave. between Bethesda and Friendship Heights.

[Anonymous]

I think a bakery and something like a cheese/wine shop would do well as part of the renovation. I know if I had a bakery in walking distance or on my way home from metro I would stop all the time.

They also need a county parking garage like the elm street garage in bethesda that is low cost and free at some times — it makes it so much more practical to drive over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole neighborhood got old all of a sudden - Lord and Taylor and Mazza were in steep decline for a decade before Covid hit. It's still in a good location and could be appealing again in 5-10 years.

I'm convinced that retail/restaurant neighborhoods are inherently cyclical and whatever is hip and happening today will be Georgetown or White Flint Mall tomorrow.

While there is some cyclical turnover, Friendship Heights is the same bad suburban design that's struggling elsewhere. Its not going to get much of a recovery in 5-10 years if better places keep getting built in the city and region.

You can't run a six lane stroad through a shopping district and expect success anymore. People will just got to better places.

Huh? You don’t think people can cross the street? There’s always the underground option. There are 5 exits on the Northern end of the Metro station. This includes the elevator and the currently closed exit in the old Mazza Gallerie. Anyone who doesn’t want to cross Western Ave and/or anyone who doesn’t want to cross Wisconsin can avoid doing so by entering one Metro exit and leaving via another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a bakery and something like a cheese/wine shop would do well as part of the renovation. I know if I had a bakery in walking distance or on my way home from metro I would stop all the time.

They also need a county parking garage like the elm street garage in bethesda that is low cost and free at some times — it makes it so much more practical to drive over.

Paul’s — a long established wine shop — closed a few years ago, although Rodman’s has an extensive wine selection. With Whole Foods and the coming Trader Joe’s, that might be a lot of competition in a small area for wine as well as cheese. Or maybe multiple shops with different specialties would build more interest?

I’d love a good Deli — restaurant like Mel Krupins. And a bakery would be great. Years ago, I’d stop at Borders for international magazines, and pick up baguette sandwiches at Marvelous Market. Those were the days!

My dream though, would probably be a Zabars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole neighborhood got old all of a sudden - Lord and Taylor and Mazza were in steep decline for a decade before Covid hit. It's still in a good location and could be appealing again in 5-10 years.

I'm convinced that retail/restaurant neighborhoods are inherently cyclical and whatever is hip and happening today will be Georgetown or White Flint Mall tomorrow.

While there is some cyclical turnover, Friendship Heights is the same bad suburban design that's struggling elsewhere. Its not going to get much of a recovery in 5-10 years if better places keep getting built in the city and region.

You can't run a six lane stroad through a shopping district and expect success anymore. People will just got to better places.

“6 lane road” is a misleading description. Each side is a parking lane and 2 traffic lanes. When I want to cross Wisconsin Ave. I walk to the nearest crosswalk which is never far, push the signal button, and wait not very long for a walk signal. Maybe you’re thinking of some other neighborhood, or the stretch of Wisconsin Ave. between Bethesda and Friendship Heights.

If movement between the buildings and the street aren't the problem, why is FH struggling then? Is it because people are going to City Center instead? Wonder if the built environment has anything to do with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a bakery and something like a cheese/wine shop would do well as part of the renovation. I know if I had a bakery in walking distance or on my way home from metro I would stop all the time.

They also need a county parking garage like the elm street garage in bethesda that is low cost and free at some times — it makes it so much more practical to drive over.

The “Smart Growth” Density Bros dismiss that as “car storage.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole neighborhood got old all of a sudden - Lord and Taylor and Mazza were in steep decline for a decade before Covid hit. It's still in a good location and could be appealing again in 5-10 years.

I'm convinced that retail/restaurant neighborhoods are inherently cyclical and whatever is hip and happening today will be Georgetown or White Flint Mall tomorrow.

While there is some cyclical turnover, Friendship Heights is the same bad suburban design that's struggling elsewhere. Its not going to get much of a recovery in 5-10 years if better places keep getting built in the city and region.

You can't run a six lane stroad through a shopping district and expect success anymore. People will just got to better places.

“6 lane road” is a misleading description. Each side is a parking lane and 2 traffic lanes. When I want to cross Wisconsin Ave. I walk to the nearest crosswalk which is never far, push the signal button, and wait not very long for a walk signal. Maybe you’re thinking of some other neighborhood, or the stretch of Wisconsin Ave. between Bethesda and Friendship Heights.

If movement between the buildings and the street aren't the problem, why is FH struggling then? Is it because people are going to City Center instead? Wonder if the built environment has anything to do with that?

Ive been to FH oodles of times and never go to City Center .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a bakery and something like a cheese/wine shop would do well as part of the renovation. I know if I had a bakery in walking distance or on my way home from metro I would stop all the time.

They also need a county parking garage like the elm street garage in bethesda that is low cost and free at some times — it makes it so much more practical to drive over.

Paul’s — a long established wine shop — closed a few years ago, although Rodman’s has an extensive wine selection. With Whole Foods and the coming Trader Joe’s, that might be a lot of competition in a small area for wine as well as cheese. Or maybe multiple shops with different specialties would build more interest?

I’d love a good Deli — restaurant like Mel Krupins. And a bakery would be great. Years ago, I’d stop at Borders for international magazines, and pick up baguette sandwiches at Marvelous Market. Those were the days!

My dream though, would probably be a Zabars.

No offense…but a deli or bakery won’t move the needle at FH.

I would love a HD or a Costco to take over the Lord & Taylor site.

The new Mazza is supposed to be finished by Spring 2025…hopefully that starts the revitalization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a bakery and something like a cheese/wine shop would do well as part of the renovation. I know if I had a bakery in walking distance or on my way home from metro I would stop all the time.

They also need a county parking garage like the elm street garage in bethesda that is low cost and free at some times — it makes it so much more practical to drive over.

Paul’s — a long established wine shop — closed a few years ago, although Rodman’s has an extensive wine selection. With Whole Foods and the coming Trader Joe’s, that might be a lot of competition in a small area for wine as well as cheese. Or maybe multiple shops with different specialties would build more interest?

I’d love a good Deli — restaurant like Mel Krupins. And a bakery would be great. Years ago, I’d stop at Borders for international magazines, and pick up baguette sandwiches at Marvelous Market. Those were the days!

My dream though, would probably be a Zabars.

No offense…but a deli or bakery won’t move the needle at FH.

I would love a HD or a Costco to take over the Lord & Taylor site.

The new Mazza is supposed to be finished by Spring 2025…hopefully that starts the revitalization.

There's no way the neighborhood would not rise up in wild protest over a Costco or HD, which would bring in a lot more traffic to side streets than anyone there would want. But anyway, the site is supposed to be the new Metro bus garage.

I'm very curious to see what tenants they start announcing for the new Mazza, which will give a good picture of what direction things are heading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
They also need a county parking garage like the elm street garage in bethesda that is low cost and free at some times — it makes it so much more practical to drive over.

The Collection at Chevy Chase says they have "1300+" parking spaces, which appears to include the surface spaces around Saks as well as the garage. The county could do a deal with Chevy Chase Land Co. to make them available on terms more similar to county garages.

[Anonymous]

Every time a neighborhood loses a bookstore it dies. Good to see Georgetown has some common sense. Maybe FH and Bethesda will follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every time a neighborhood loses a bookstore it dies. Good to see Georgetown has some common sense. Maybe FH and Bethesda will follow.

It wasn't exactly the neighborhood's fault that Borders closed -- the whole chain shut down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a bakery and something like a cheese/wine shop would do well as part of the renovation. I know if I had a bakery in walking distance or on my way home from metro I would stop all the time.

They also need a county parking garage like the elm street garage in bethesda that is low cost and free at some times — it makes it so much more practical to drive over.

Paul’s — a long established wine shop — closed a few years ago, although Rodman’s has an extensive wine selection. With Whole Foods and the coming Trader Joe’s, that might be a lot of competition in a small area for wine as well as cheese. Or maybe multiple shops with different specialties would build more interest?

I’d love a good Deli — restaurant like Mel Krupins. And a bakery would be great. Years ago, I’d stop at Borders for international magazines, and pick up baguette sandwiches at Marvelous Market. Those were the days!

My dream though, would probably be a Zabars.

No offense…but a deli or bakery won’t move the needle at FH.

I would love a HD or a Costco to take over the Lord & Taylor site.

The new Mazza is supposed to be finished by Spring 2025…hopefully that starts the revitalization.

No offense taken. A Deli, a bakery, and a bookstore won’t move the needle by themselves — but they would increase street traffic and unplanned shopping at other businesses. Consistent street traffic plus destination options are both needed for sustainable economic growth — and would support a sense of safety for people eager to support local businesses.
Again, I’m comparing that with having to go out of the neighborhood for a service or purchase — and then spending time and money in that second neighborhood. If I do this as a pedestrian, it’s even more likely that people who typically drive will combine errands and activities at the destination they drive to vs also spending time and money in FH — even if FH actually offers some of the services and items that they plan to purchase.

For a variety of reasons, Costco or Home Depot or anything other than Metro are unlikely to happen at the L & Taylor site. Stores like that are also unlikely to help smaller neighborhood businesses. Costco and Bloomies? Maybe —but it seems unlikely when they’re about 2 blocks apart. Home Depot and picking up dinner at the Heights and an outfit from Eileen Fisher? Again, seems unlikely as a combination goal. I agree with the PP who said that the mix of options at the Mazza site will suggest the direction of the neighborhood culture and growth.