Virginia parents do not have many good in-state options

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maryland parents often complain about the lack of instate public options other than UMCP.

Guess what, Virginia is not that much better in my opinion.

Yes, Virginia has UVa, W&M and VT.

But Virginia is more populous than Maryland and W&M undergraduate enrollment is tiny. In addition, more Maryland parents are willing to send their kids to private colleges like many other parents in Northern states.

VT limits the number of in-state admission to get more OOS kids. So what if your kids don’t get in UVa, VT or W&M? That’s the big issue for many parents.

JMU is considered as the next best option. And I do think it’s a fine school and its business program is a solid choice. But what if your kids want to major in engineering or hard scinece? JMU doesn’t even have a proper engineering school (college of integrated science and engineering is not a real engineering school in my opinion).

GMU offers decent engineering and CS programs but not everyone in Northern Virginia wants to go to a school in Fairfax.

Too many good and ambitious Virginia kids don’t get in UVa, W&M, and VT. I think this is why there have been increased interest in some of OOS public school (pitt, IU, UDel, UConn, Tenn, Alabama, etc. ) among Virginia parents.

The biggest limitation with VA schools is the lack of solid STEM schools. At UMDCP for example CS is the most popular major. It is a top 15 program and there is nothing comparable in VA.

Oh wow - this actually made me laugh. VT is every bit comparable with UMDCP. One is ranked #46 and the other #47 in National Universities. In top publics, one is #19 and the other is #20. VT is #13 for engineering, while UMD is #19. Their numbers are practically identical in most respects. Where did you get the "top 15" ranking for UMD?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/virginia-tech-3754/overall-rankings
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-maryland-2103/overall-rankings

Weird Looking Turkey ranked #69
Ugly Turtle ranked #420

Duke Dog #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cute!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virginia also has W&L, URichmond, VCU, etc., all of which (with JMU and GMU) are arguably better than all of Maryland's non-College Park schools.

Just comparing private to private, are you actually arguing that W&L and URichmond are better than JHU?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol. Literally. I mean, it isn't California but it is flat out ridiculous to say Virginia does not have good in-state options.

Honestly, the only people who are unhappy about Virginia's in-state options are the few percent who are on the margins of getting into UVA. My kids aren't going to be applying to UVA, but they'll have at least a half dozen other schools to choose from in Virginia. All at a very reasonable cost, too.

PP...yep that's us!

I feel you. The Virginia legislature should follow the lead of other states, and limit OOS at UVA to 10% of the student body, and fund an increase in enrollment by at least 50%.

In other words ruin it.

I can accept “my kid can’t get in because only the very cream of the state gets to attend”

I cannot accept “my kid can’t get in because the administration filled the place with kids from New York and New Jersey who don’t want to go to Rutgers and Binghamton and they pay double what you do”

So wait - this is what you tell yourself (and your kid) when they don't get into schools you feel they're entitled to get into? Interesting.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maryland parents often complain about the lack of instate public options other than UMCP.

Guess what, Virginia is not that much better in my opinion.

Yes, Virginia has UVa, W&M and VT.

But Virginia is more populous than Maryland and W&M undergraduate enrollment is tiny. In addition, more Maryland parents are willing to send their kids to private colleges like many other parents in Northern states.

VT limits the number of in-state admission to get more OOS kids. So what if your kids don’t get in UVa, VT or W&M? That’s the big issue for many parents.

JMU is considered as the next best option. And I do think it’s a fine school and its business program is a solid choice. But what if your kids want to major in engineering or hard scinece? JMU doesn’t even have a proper engineering school (college of integrated science and engineering is not a real engineering school in my opinion).

GMU offers decent engineering and CS programs but not everyone in Northern Virginia wants to go to a school in Fairfax.

Too many good and ambitious Virginia kids don’t get in UVa, W&M, and VT. I think this is why there have been increased interest in some of OOS public school (pitt, IU, UDel, UConn, Tenn, Alabama, etc. ) among Virginia parents.

The biggest limitation with VA schools is the lack of solid STEM schools. At UMDCP for example CS is the most popular major. It is a top 15 program and there is nothing comparable in VA.

Oh wow - this actually made me laugh. VT is every bit comparable with UMDCP. One is ranked #46 and the other #47 in National Universities. In top publics, one is #19 and the other is #20. VT is #13 for engineering, while UMD is #19. Their numbers are practically identical in most respects. Where did you get the "top 15" ranking for UMD?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/virginia-tech-3754/overall-rankings
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-maryland-2103/overall-rankings

Weird Looking Turkey ranked #69
Ugly Turtle ranked #420

Duke Dog #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cute!!!!!!!

Duke Dog is cute. Where are mascots ranked?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol. Literally. I mean, it isn't California but it is flat out ridiculous to say Virginia does not have good in-state options.

Honestly, the only people who are unhappy about Virginia's in-state options are the few percent who are on the margins of getting into UVA. My kids aren't going to be applying to UVA, but they'll have at least a half dozen other schools to choose from in Virginia. All at a very reasonable cost, too.

PP...yep that's us!

I feel you. The Virginia legislature should follow the lead of other states, and limit OOS at UVA to 10% of the student body, and fund an increase in enrollment by at least 50%.

In other words ruin it.

I can accept “my kid can’t get in because only the very cream of the state gets to attend”

I cannot accept “my kid can’t get in because the administration filled the place with kids from New York and New Jersey who don’t want to go to Rutgers and Binghamton and they pay double what you do”

So wait - this is what you tell yourself (and your kid) when they don't get into schools you feel they're entitled to get into? Interesting.
DP

The invasion of full pay students from northern states into southern schools has been happening for the past two years. They are flooding all of the southern schools. And it’s happening out west too all of the kids that get shut out of the UC system are going to Texas schools.

[Anonymous]

VA is in the top 3 states in terms of state sponsored university systems. OP is nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

That is for graduate schools. Not undergraduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol. Literally. I mean, it isn't California but it is flat out ridiculous to say Virginia does not have good in-state options.

Honestly, the only people who are unhappy about Virginia's in-state options are the few percent who are on the margins of getting into UVA. My kids aren't going to be applying to UVA, but they'll have at least a half dozen other schools to choose from in Virginia. All at a very reasonable cost, too.

PP...yep that's us!

I feel you. The Virginia legislature should follow the lead of other states, and limit OOS at UVA to 10% of the student body, and fund an increase in enrollment by at least 50%.

In other words ruin it.

I can accept “my kid can’t get in because only the very cream of the state gets to attend”

I cannot accept “my kid can’t get in because the administration filled the place with kids from New York and New Jersey who don’t want to go to Rutgers and Binghamton and they pay double what you do”

So wait - this is what you tell yourself (and your kid) when they don't get into schools you feel they're entitled to get into? Interesting.
DP

The invasion of full pay students from northern states into southern schools has been happening for the past two years. They are flooding all of the southern schools. And it’s happening out west too all of the kids that get shut out of the UC system are going to Texas schools.

There has been a significant outflow of people from California to Texas, but not so sure about the universities. California just isn't affordable for many people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol. Literally. I mean, it isn't California but it is flat out ridiculous to say Virginia does not have good in-state options.

Honestly, the only people who are unhappy about Virginia's in-state options are the few percent who are on the margins of getting into UVA. My kids aren't going to be applying to UVA, but they'll have at least a half dozen other schools to choose from in Virginia. All at a very reasonable cost, too.

PP...yep that's us!

I feel you. The Virginia legislature should follow the lead of other states, and limit OOS at UVA to 10% of the student body, and fund an increase in enrollment by at least 50%.

In other words ruin it.

I can accept “my kid can’t get in because only the very cream of the state gets to attend”

I cannot accept “my kid can’t get in because the administration filled the place with kids from New York and New Jersey who don’t want to go to Rutgers and Binghamton and they pay double what you do”

So wait - this is what you tell yourself (and your kid) when they don't get into schools you feel they're entitled to get into? Interesting.
DP

The invasion of full pay students from northern states into southern schools has been happening for the past two years. They are flooding all of the southern schools. And it’s happening out west too all of the kids that get shut out of the UC system are going to Texas schools.

I have a lot of friends and family in California, those who don't get in where they want in CA go to Texas, yes, but also Arizona and Oregon are big beneficiaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

That is for graduate schools. Not undergraduate.

I don't think JMU has any graduate degree programs in chemistry. It would never appear on the list you cited. A school can be very good at undergraduate chemistry (e.g. Swarthmore) and it would never appear on the list you cited. However, their undergraduate program could be better than the undergraduate programs of many on the graduate list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

That is for graduate schools. Not undergraduate.

I don't think JMU has any graduate degree programs in chemistry. It would never appear on the list you cited. A school can be very good at undergraduate chemistry (e.g. Swarthmore) and it would never appear on the list you cited. However, their undergraduate program could be better than the undergraduate programs of many on the graduate list.

A better indicator of undergrad quality could be the numbers/% of students who go on to a chemistry PhD.
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs#chemistry

Top 4 by # = Berkeley, UNC, UCSD, UC Davis
Top 4 adjusted for college size = Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Carleton, Grinnell

FWIW Swarthmore is #16 in the "adjusted" list

VT is #29 in total, UVA is #42, UMD is #47, JMU doesn't make the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the science programs really that bad at JMU?

I hesitate to say “bad”, but JMU definitely is very weak in real science degrees like Physics or Chem. The same science degree from ODU or GMU or VCU would be much much stronger, and obviously both UVa and VT have very credible science degrees. Going. to JMU for that degree will adversely impact one’s options at college graduation. Harder to get into a good grad science program from JMU and also harder to get a job. JMU would be OK if one’s career goal were o spend one’s life being a high school science teacher.

DP. Please list your source for the above claims. Nothing I have experienced - both with my own kids who are JMU grads (one in a science major) and many others we know - come even a little bit close to the fiction you're spinning. Thanks.

I'm the PP who asked the question, not the person who answered it, but I did find this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings

USNWR top 212 schools for chemistry:

42. UVA
67. VT
119. VCU
173. GMU
173. ODU
Not making the list: JMU

That is for graduate schools. Not undergraduate.

+1
Facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is every state, OP.

This is OP.

I completely agree with what you said; that's precisely my point. Like people in many other states, Virginians have limited good options for public colleges.

The issue is that many people don't realize it and keep saying things like, "we're so fortunate to have so many good options." The sooner Virginians dispel that delusional idea, the sooner we can expect real policy changes:

1) We need to increase enrollment for VT, W&M, and UVa.
2) We need to curb out-of-state admissions, currently at about one-third.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:VA is definitely in the top 3 as far as public education at the college level. Its second tier schools JMU, GMU, etc, are better than a number of state flagships.

Someone said that these 2nd tier don’t have national name recognition. That might be true but they all have regional recognition and I’m pretty sure a lot of these graduates remain in the general region for their jobs so after that it doesn’t really matter. Plus alumni are going to help alumni.

There are going to be instances of UVa grads that can’t find jobs but a JMU grad finds one.