Are we the only family in the DMV who is priced out?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is us too, OP. We have about 250k set aside, a 350k HHI, one car paid off, two kids in public, no debt, but we can’t find a 1800 sq ft 3br WOTP anywhere. I don’t need detached. I don’t need off street parking. There is simply no inventory in this range. We were striving to get something in the 950-1.1 range years back but now those crummy small houses are more like 1.3 and there are almost never any on the market.

Look a bit north in 20814. On Zillow I found a handful of houses meeting your criteria.

Thanks for the tip, but we live in DC and don’t want to leave. It would require an additional car (and our old one would surely die soon with commuting), hours more spent commuting each day, and more. I prioritize a walkable lifestyle for my mental health and I know it’s a luxury, but I don’t believe that a walkable lifestyle should be a luxury for anybody. I would just really love a small 3br home somewhere in our community. It’s crazy that we are rich but still can’t afford that.

I don't get it. You can afford a house but not in that area so stop complaining already. Life is about choices.

Yes. So we choose to stay here. I'm not complaining. But it's kind of crazy that we can make so much money and not afford to buy a home. Those of you saying we don't make a lot of money have lived in DC too long and lost all perspective.

You aren't priced out of a home, you are priced out of a lifestyle. We make a decent living too, but I wouldn't tell people I'm priced out of Beverly Hills. You haven't indicated what neighborhood in DC you are looking or a budget for the home. Your HHI and downpayment are good numbers for buying a home, but not a home anywhere you want. Moving towards Arlington in your example could incur more costs, but it may not. There are plenty of public transportation options that many families just own 1 car in our area since you do work from home.

Down the road you will also have to figure out your school options for your kids and whether private is something you have to explore. So yes, that lifestyle can get expensive quickly and you will be priced out.

This is how people remain renters for life. They are able to afford to buy in another neighborhood but it’s not good enough for them. If you have to rent to live in a neighborhood long term then you can’t afford it! Have multiple friends still renting in nice neighborhoods in Manhattan who don’t have the large down payment to buy. They should live and buy in Hoboken, Jersey City, etc but they are too good for that. Next thing you know their kids are in private schools and they remain renters for life.

Good for them! I’d rather live in Manhattan than Jersey City as well even if I was renting. As long as OP is investing in stocks or other investment vehicles they’ll be fine. Real estate isn’t the only way to build wealth. I wish I rented and put my down payment that I made in 2012 in Apple and Tesla stock instead. I’d be able to retire now.

+1 we own a NYC apartment outright and it has barely appreciated at all in the last 7 years. Would have been a lot better off putting that money in the market and renting.

You’re obviously in a different financial situation than OP if you own your apartment outright in Manhattan. OP can barely buy an apartment there with a mortgage.

The point stands regardless of their financial position. Point was renting would have been a better deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are below your HHI ($255k) and have a similar downpayment ($325k-ish) to provide after selling our house. We will be looking at small SFHs out in the Fairfax/Annandale, Burke HS, Springfield HS areas, hoping for $800k or less, but the new mortgage rates mean we're probably screwed and won't save any money other than retirement for a few years. Hoping for something livable, but expect a kitchen with older cabinets, needing to replace floors and do some painting....

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Burke/5437-Flint-Tavern-Pl-22015/home/9735946

Have you seen this home? Great neighborhood...and priced low for it. I'm not the seller, promise! Just walked by it yesterday and was surprised about the lost price.

[Anonymous]

We fit a similar profile as you OP and we bought (luckily!) in early 2020 when the inventory was still very low for single standalone homes, 4 bedrooms, in good school districts. We had to beat out 12 other offers but somehow won it. Our kids are super happy at school & the community, we both (bc of covid) now work remotely fully. We had bought someplace very close to DC when we were both having to commute. It was a turn key house, but is still pretty modest and we haven’t been able to much work beyond cosmetic stuff. You’re right in that the prices and interest rates have continued to soar. Homes in these ranges are slim to none because nobody can afford to move (only upgrade/renovate if they are lucky) in this current environment. Good luck to you! We are happy with our community, but if we HAD to look now we would’ve been priced out and would’ve had to move much farther out to find something that ticked all the boxes. I still wish we had an extra 1000 square feet, a bigger backyard, a nicer bathroom, but it is what it is and the community and happiness of our kids makes up for all that. Who wants a big house somewhere when you hate your neighborhood? We’ll renovate when we have the extra cash one day. And honestly, what I’ve found is most of the other families in our neighborhood are in similar boats. Even if they’ve lived here for 30 years - their homes are fairly modest but they’ve bought second vacation homes somewhere. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Yuppers.

[Anonymous]

Get the most mortgage you can then sell in 5 or so years having done zero maintenance or upgrades. That's how you successfully start out in this area.

[Anonymous]

If you're both working and have a HHI of 300k, might be time to examine what keeps you in the DMV. Or if you want to stay in the area, look for remote or at least hybrid jobs so you don't wreck your lives and health with a daily 3 hour commute. If you take the commute out of the equation, then you can easily afford something reasonable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is us too, OP. We have about 250k set aside, a 350k HHI, one car paid off, two kids in public, no debt, but we can’t find a 1800 sq ft 3br WOTP anywhere. I don’t need detached. I don’t need off street parking. There is simply no inventory in this range. We were striving to get something in the 950-1.1 range years back but now those crummy small houses are more like 1.3 and there are almost never any on the market.

Look a bit north in 20814. On Zillow I found a handful of houses meeting your criteria.

Thanks for the tip, but we live in DC and don’t want to leave. It would require an additional car (and our old one would surely die soon with commuting), hours more spent commuting each day, and more. I prioritize a walkable lifestyle for my mental health and I know it’s a luxury, but I don’t believe that a walkable lifestyle should be a luxury for anybody. I would just really love a small 3br home somewhere in our community. It’s crazy that we are rich but still can’t afford that.

I don't get it. You can afford a house but not in that area so stop complaining already. Life is about choices.

Yes. So we choose to stay here. I'm not complaining. But it's kind of crazy that we can make so much money and not afford to buy a home. Those of you saying we don't make a lot of money have lived in DC too long and lost all perspective.

You aren't priced out of a home, you are priced out of a lifestyle. We make a decent living too, but I wouldn't tell people I'm priced out of Beverly Hills. You haven't indicated what neighborhood in DC you are looking or a budget for the home. Your HHI and downpayment are good numbers for buying a home, but not a home anywhere you want. Moving towards Arlington in your example could incur more costs, but it may not. There are plenty of public transportation options that many families just own 1 car in our area since you do work from home.

Down the road you will also have to figure out your school options for your kids and whether private is something you have to explore. So yes, that lifestyle can get expensive quickly and you will be priced out.

This is how people remain renters for life. They are able to afford to buy in another neighborhood but it’s not good enough for them. If you have to rent to live in a neighborhood long term then you can’t afford it! Have multiple friends still renting in nice neighborhoods in Manhattan who don’t have the large down payment to buy. They should live and buy in Hoboken, Jersey City, etc but they are too good for that. Next thing you know their kids are in private schools and they remain renters for life.

Good for them! I’d rather live in Manhattan than Jersey City as well even if I was renting. As long as OP is investing in stocks or other investment vehicles they’ll be fine. Real estate isn’t the only way to build wealth. I wish I rented and put my down payment that I made in 2012 in Apple and Tesla stock instead. I’d be able to retire now.

+1 we own a NYC apartment outright and it has barely appreciated at all in the last 7 years. Would have been a lot better off putting that money in the market and renting.

You’re obviously in a different financial situation than OP if you own your apartment outright in Manhattan. OP can barely buy an apartment there with a mortgage.

The point stands regardless of their financial position. Point was renting would have been a better deal.

In the short term or if they have a rent controlled apartment, yes.

In the long term are renters in NYC in better shape financially? Most likely not. Most renters in NYC are paying high rents that prevent them from saving a down payment for an apartment.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DH and I are early 40s, two kids, HHI 300k gross. We have a downpayment of 300k set aside but are only interested in single family homes that are not total teardowns. We are priced out and have stopped looking.

DH interviewed for a higher paying job this summer but didn't pass the second round. I'm earning the max I can earn with my qualifications. Kids in public school and we are renting right now.

Are we the only ones in this situation?

Priced out of what? You can comfortably afford a house but it's not what you want so stop complaining. You can buy a $600-700K house comfortably.

That doesn’t buy you anything someone making $300,000 with two kids would want to live in here.

Okay, but none of us are entitled to a house we can't afford.

My family bought a house in a neighborhood in NE DC that we hadn't considered because it was what we could afford. We bought at the very peak of the market in 2006.

It's not huge, but it's been a great home and neighborhood. Well known neighborhoods are simply more expensive, but they're not necessarily better. The key to happiness in life and in the housing market is accepting current reality. Accepting what you can't change. And then making decisions accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are below your HHI ($255k) and have a similar downpayment ($325k-ish) to provide after selling our house. We will be looking at small SFHs out in the Fairfax/Annandale, Burke HS, Springfield HS areas, hoping for $800k or less, but the new mortgage rates mean we're probably screwed and won't save any money other than retirement for a few years. Hoping for something livable, but expect a kitchen with older cabinets, needing to replace floors and do some painting....

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Burke/5437-Flint-Tavern-Pl-22015/home/9735946

Have you seen this home? Great neighborhood...and priced low for it. I'm not the seller, promise! Just walked by it yesterday and was surprised about the lost price.

I live nearby but in Southport. It’s a great area!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here: unless other people want to keep battering this topic back and forth, I'm out. DH just got a final interview for a job in another state. He's flying there to interview next week. Fingers crossed. If he gets it, we're moving. I can work anywhere. His job is more specialized so it's harder for him to change jobs, but not impossible.

Fingers crossed OP! I love this area but I also agree with you and share all your same frustrations. I hope he gets the job! As much as I like it here, I also hope we get to move so we can actually enjoy rsome of the money we earn.

You might be in for a surprise. Home prices increased much more in other locations versus DC. I’m shocked at what my previous home recently sold for in a MCOL city. Then add in the cost of needing 2 cars instead of 1 or even 0 in the city. Home affordability is at an all time low and I wouldn’t assume that moving to another location will end up being a huge savings.

It's true housing costs have gone up everywhere. Though it really just depends on the market you are looking at. We're currently running the numbers on moving to a lower COL city from the DMV and one of the biggest factors is schools. There are cities where, yes, housing costs much more than it did 5 years ago, and yes, we'd be more likely to wind up somewhere requiring a second car. But even with those factors, we could afford to buy IB for the best schools in the metropolitan area.

This is what we did. Only $1.1 million house but blue ribbon public schools.

And I bet your $1.1 million dollar house actually seems like it’s worth $1 million instead of $600,000 like here.

Truth. We've been looking at homes in a midsize Midwestern city we are thinking about relocating to in order to be closer to DH's family, and the first thing I noticed is how many homes in our budget are fully updated. It's not something I expected after living in the DMV for so long and has been a nice surprise. We have seen homes in good school districts, near commuter transportation, for around 400k that have updated kitchens and baths. I mean those are smaller houses on smaller lots and not always in the most desirable part of the neighborhood, but it's still jawdropping to see houses like that for less than 500k.

We have also seen houses that need to be totally gutted, but they list for like 200-250k. So the total gut feels doable. And again, we're talking good schools here, not some tear down property in a neighborhood with high crime and bad schools. These are houses zoned for schools that get 8s and 9s on Great Schools, where the high schools are highly regarded and the neighborhoods are considered safe and desirable. But these specific houses need a ton of work, and I guess demand for land isn't like it is here, so the houses are priced like tear downs. Unlike here where a house with one 50 year old bathroom and no kitchen at all will sell for 700k-1.1m depending on the neighborhood, plus you'll be paying absolutely through the nose to renovate.

It's kind of thrilling, after years of making every compromise on the housing side in order to have workable commutes and kids in decent schools, to discover that we have actual *choice.* We can pay cash for a house that needs a total overhaul and get exactly what we want in the long run with a relatively small home equity loan. Or we could buy a small house and get a tiny mortgage of 100-200k, and be able to invest the difference every month. It's extremely exciting and is really shifting our perspective on a move that we previously were not totally happy about. The DMV is an incredibly hard place to live.

This actually gives me hope, I’m rooting for your home search! So refreshing

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The problem for OP and a lot of others around here who grew up UMC is that they had nice, large, comfortable homes when they were young. So they think that they deserve a home like that for their family now. When OP and others have a $1M+ budget and call houses in their price range “crappy,” they are acting entitled and are out of touch with reality. (No wonder their realtors suggest borrowing from their parents; non—UMC would not behave this way.)

I grew up poor as heck. I bought a “crappy” little house here 12 years ago that is luxury compared to my childhood home. I have hot water, a roof over my head, a fricking dishwasher!, access to good schools and transit, and more. My house is not fully updated and is close to a busy street, but my mortgage is low and the house works for us.

Projection much? DH grew up in an apartment with shootings in the parking lot. His left when he was 10. I'd hardly call that UMC.

He and I both don't want to end up house poor, where we both have to work full time into our 70s. We both see that routinely in our workplaces and it scares us. These coworkers have nearly all of their net worth tied up in their homes and didn't start investing for retirement until they were in their 50s. Seeing that every day has made us far less eager to jump into a money pit without an inspection or an adequate reserve fund for structural repairs at our price point. We set a target for that fund (separate from downpayment, closing costs, etc.) and are saving for that. We save about 40% of our take home pay. I think that's decent for a family of four, and if we can't buy around here because I make a median salary and DH is topped out, we'll either have to change jobs and move or just keep renting. We'll be fine either way, as one PP noted, but it does mean that we run the risk of being priced out. It's all about choices. Some people are happy owning and working until they die, some people make 1M a year and save over 50% of their take home pay and can have it all. We are in between, and that's just reality.

you are just weird. you rent, but you are also saving for repairs for a house you don't have. i mean, your choice, but that's just weird.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DH and I are early 40s, two kids, HHI 300k gross. We have a downpayment of 300k set aside but are only interested in single family homes that are not total teardowns. We are priced out and have stopped looking.

DH interviewed for a higher paying job this summer but didn't pass the second round. I'm earning the max I can earn with my qualifications. Kids in public school and we are renting right now.

Are we the only ones in this situation?

Priced out of what? You can comfortably afford a house but it's not what you want so stop complaining. You can buy a $600-700K house comfortably.

That doesn’t buy you anything someone making $300,000 with two kids would want to live in here.

Okay, but none of us are entitled to a house we can't afford.

My family bought a house in a neighborhood in NE DC that we hadn't considered because it was what we could afford. We bought at the very peak of the market in 2006.

It's not huge, but it's been a great home and neighborhood. Well known neighborhoods are simply more expensive, but they're not necessarily better. The key to happiness in life and in the housing market is accepting current reality. Accepting what you can't change. And then making decisions accordingly.

In 2006. Different world.

And you should read up on foreign money in real estate and corporations buying up houses. You are cruelly naive to think someone isn’t entitled to live in a decent house in a decent neighborhood when they make about 4x more than the average salary. I’m not saying a new mansion, I’m saying something that feels logical for their income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are early 40s, two kids, HHI 300k gross. We have a downpayment of 300k set aside but are only interested in single family homes that are not total teardowns. We are priced out and have stopped looking.

DH interviewed for a higher paying job this summer but didn't pass the second round. I'm earning the max I can earn with my qualifications. Kids in public school and we are renting right now.

Are we the only ones in this situation?

Yep just you. Other people are buying where their money spends and making it work.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is us too, OP. We have about 250k set aside, a 350k HHI, one car paid off, two kids in public, no debt, but we can’t find a 1800 sq ft 3br WOTP anywhere. I don’t need detached. I don’t need off street parking. There is simply no inventory in this range. We were striving to get something in the 950-1.1 range years back but now those crummy small houses are more like 1.3 and there are almost never any on the market.

Look a bit north in 20814. On Zillow I found a handful of houses meeting your criteria.

Thanks for the tip, but we live in DC and don’t want to leave. It would require an additional car (and our old one would surely die soon with commuting), hours more spent commuting each day, and more. I prioritize a walkable lifestyle for my mental health and I know it’s a luxury, but I don’t believe that a walkable lifestyle should be a luxury for anybody. I would just really love a small 3br home somewhere in our community. It’s crazy that we are rich but still can’t afford that.

I don't get it. You can afford a house but not in that area so stop complaining already. Life is about choices.

Yes. So we choose to stay here. I'm not complaining. But it's kind of crazy that we can make so much money and not afford to buy a home. Those of you saying we don't make a lot of money have lived in DC too long and lost all perspective.

You aren't priced out of a home, you are priced out of a lifestyle. We make a decent living too, but I wouldn't tell people I'm priced out of Beverly Hills. You haven't indicated what neighborhood in DC you are looking or a budget for the home. Your HHI and downpayment are good numbers for buying a home, but not a home anywhere you want. Moving towards Arlington in your example could incur more costs, but it may not. There are plenty of public transportation options that many families just own 1 car in our area since you do work from home.

Down the road you will also have to figure out your school options for your kids and whether private is something you have to explore. So yes, that lifestyle can get expensive quickly and you will be priced out.

This is how people remain renters for life. They are able to afford to buy in another neighborhood but it’s not good enough for them. If you have to rent to live in a neighborhood long term then you can’t afford it! Have multiple friends still renting in nice neighborhoods in Manhattan who don’t have the large down payment to buy. They should live and buy in Hoboken, Jersey City, etc but they are too good for that. Next thing you know their kids are in private schools and they remain renters for life.

Good for them! I’d rather live in Manhattan than Jersey City as well even if I was renting. As long as OP is investing in stocks or other investment vehicles they’ll be fine. Real estate isn’t the only way to build wealth. I wish I rented and put my down payment that I made in 2012 in Apple and Tesla stock instead. I’d be able to retire now.

Most of the time they aren’t. Rent continues to go up and they eventually need more space. They continue to live the lifestyle of their neighborhood.

I agree with this, even though I too would rather live in Manhattan than Hoboken. But in that situation, I'd move from Manhattan to Philly or Boston or Chicago (or even DC, which is still crazy expensive but not as expensive as Manhattan) rather than Hoboken, so that I could buy a home and build equity.

If you own a home, you can retire with no mortgage or rent. You'll still have to pay for maintenance and taxes, but in my case that's a few hundred dollars a month. We'll have a pension of around 7k a month once we retire. That's... liberating. Plus 401ks and other investments.

I am so, so glad I will not be paying rent in retirement.

My home rents for $7,000 a month if I rented it. In retirement it will be mortgage free

[Anonymous]

There is something wrong with OP if they can't find a house with a $300K down payment and $330K income. Nope, you can't live in Arlington or Bethesda, but there are lots of other places you can live. You're just dumb.