Can you tell me the pros and cons of playing “up”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid played up from 2nd grade till middle school. She had a great time, was a leader on the team. Middle school years were tricky on the social side. Moved her to her age group (stronger team) as high school started. No regrets!

This is my concern. My 8 year old played up last year, so some kids were already 10. We joined soccer for the social aspect of a team sport and she didn’t really get that playing up because all her school friends played at age level.

Our teams haven’t been solidified this year yet and I’m leaning towards a decline if asked to play up again. We aren’t in it for scholarship and college teams, we are in it to build friendships with kids in our town/grades.

Fwiw - she was asked to play up to push her skill development. She is a head or more talker than kids her age and significantly faster than them. The coach didn’t want her simply relying on her size and speed, but wanted her to be more challenged on skill. I agree with this approach if we had a focus on being the best player on the best team, but we aren’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid played up from 2nd grade till middle school. She had a great time, was a leader on the team. Middle school years were tricky on the social side. Moved her to her age group (stronger team) as high school started. No regrets!

This is my concern. My 8 year old played up last year, so some kids were already 10. We joined soccer for the social aspect of a team sport and she didn’t really get that playing up because all her school friends played at age level.

Our teams haven’t been solidified this year yet and I’m leaning towards a decline if asked to play up again. We aren’t in it for scholarship and college teams, we are in it to build friendships with kids in our town/grades.

Fwiw - she was asked to play up to push her skill development. She is a head or more talker than kids her age and significantly faster than them. The coach didn’t want her simply relying on her size and speed, but wanted her to be more challenged on skill. I agree with this approach if we had a focus on being the best player on the best team, but we aren’t.

Teams don't stay together. Developing a social network can be a very positive outcome of soccer but it should not be the reason to pursue it or other similar activities.

[Anonymous]

We have a kid on our hockey team that played up (and hockey in our city already spans a two-year age group). The kid's parents treat their 8-year old like a miniprofessional, and have him on the ice 6-7 days a week, so he's technically advanced, and he scored a lot of goals. But in the locker room with kids as old as 11, the 8-year old was totally out of place, and they found him super annoying (due to his massive ego). Those of us parents in our group who played sports professionally or in college have discussed how youth sports are a marathon, not a sprint. We watched some of our friends who were 8-year old super stars burn out when they were teenagers and quit. Obviously, every kid and every situation is different. My kid is not playing up, even though he was asked to tryout for an older team this year, because I want him to enjoy his childhood and play with teammates who are the same age. The parents of the 8-year old super star (now 9) asked if he could play on the 12U team (this was quickly shot down due to safety reasons)! This is an extreme example of nutty parents, but in sum, I think there are very limited circumstances where playing up is appropriate (like you have a big, strong, highly skilled kid with a January birthday).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have to stop separating big kids and little kids on the soccer field. And, giving big kids a legs up is hurting not just the kid you're playing up but the entire system. This is a huge problem for soccer in the U.S. Other countries do not care about size and physicality - they care about skills. Our way of promoting and advancing creates a bunch of 6'2" pros who can't keep up or know the game from a tactical standpoint. Just as basketball is inherently a big man's sport - soccer is inherently a small man's sport. Sure, there are guys like Zlatan Ibrahimovic out there. But for every one of him, there are five guys like Messi, Neymar, Sterling, etc, who are in the 5'6" 5'9" range. Stop focusing on size for a sport where it rarely matters beyond goalkeeper.

Statistically, Average FIFA player height is 5’9.5-5’10” hardly giants and that includes goalkeepers in the average who are much taller.

No soccer is not inherently a small man sport. Average height in the premier league is 5’11.5”, Bundesliga 6’ and la liga 5’ 10.75”. Average height in UK -5’10, Germany 5’11” and Spain 5’9”(South American average 5’7”). Excluding goalies, your typical premier league roster will have 15-20% of the players 5’8” and below(very few are 5’6” or below), 30% 5’9”-5’10” and 55% 5’11 or taller.

Look at Chelsea three players 5’8” and below, 25 - 6’ plus. Man city was the shortest as a team but they have 6 players below 5’8” including one 5’5”, one 5’6” and three 5’7”. Still they have more players 5’11” and over(11) vs player 5’8” and below. If soccer was inherently a short man’s sport the majority of players would 5’9” or below.

I think the poster's point is that there is no other sport in the world where a third of the players are 5'9" and below - outside of racehorse jockeys. Looking locally, DC United has 9 players who are 5'9" and below. And this may come as a shock to you, but men tend to fib an inch or two about size. So, it's likely about half of the roster being below the average height for a man in the U.S. Nobody said you can't play soccer if you're tall, but it's the only sport where half of the players are below average height. And, if you look at the stars - you can name more under 5'10" than you can over it. Maradona, Pele, Neymar, Messi - all 5'8" or below. Think the poster's point about it being a short man's sport is a pretty solid one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have to stop separating big kids and little kids on the soccer field. And, giving big kids a legs up is hurting not just the kid you're playing up but the entire system. This is a huge problem for soccer in the U.S. Other countries do not care about size and physicality - they care about skills. Our way of promoting and advancing creates a bunch of 6'2" pros who can't keep up or know the game from a tactical standpoint. Just as basketball is inherently a big man's sport - soccer is inherently a small man's sport. Sure, there are guys like Zlatan Ibrahimovic out there. But for every one of him, there are five guys like Messi, Neymar, Sterling, etc, who are in the 5'6" 5'9" range. Stop focusing on size for a sport where it rarely matters beyond goalkeeper.

Statistically, Average FIFA player height is 5’9.5-5’10” hardly giants and that includes goalkeepers in the average who are much taller.

No soccer is not inherently a small man sport. Average height in the premier league is 5’11.5”, Bundesliga 6’ and la liga 5’ 10.75”. Average height in UK -5’10, Germany 5’11” and Spain 5’9”(South American average 5’7”). Excluding goalies, your typical premier league roster will have 15-20% of the players 5’8” and below(very few are 5’6” or below), 30% 5’9”-5’10” and 55% 5’11 or taller.

Look at Chelsea three players 5’8” and below, 25 - 6’ plus. Man city was the shortest as a team but they have 6 players below 5’8” including one 5’5”, one 5’6” and three 5’7”. Still they have more players 5’11” and over(11) vs player 5’8” and below. If soccer was inherently a short man’s sport the majority of players would 5’9” or below.

Think you proved the OP's point for him. Man City, who is currently the best team in the best league, has six players below 5'8". That's well below average height - and most of them are starters. And, 5'11" is not exactly large. They skew well below average height that above average height. So I don't know I'd agree that it's a sport owned by small guys but they are doing better than tall guys.

[Anonymous]

Once you dip into the higher levels of travel in any sport you are done with kids making friends with teammates.

1. They very often live distances away. This means the can see each other at practices and games and that’s about it.
2. Their status as teammates is a potentially renewing 9 month thing. One or both may well leave the team the next season.

As kids get older - middle school and high school they will be doing lots of other things and their friend group may or may not include kids on the current soccer team. That includes school teams really. Kids are mostly friends with kids in their grade. If a freshman makes a varsity school team they can be friendly with everyone, but you don’t want them to be friends with Juniors and Seniors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have to stop separating big kids and little kids on the soccer field. And, giving big kids a legs up is hurting not just the kid you're playing up but the entire system. This is a huge problem for soccer in the U.S. Other countries do not care about size and physicality - they care about skills. Our way of promoting and advancing creates a bunch of 6'2" pros who can't keep up or know the game from a tactical standpoint. Just as basketball is inherently a big man's sport - soccer is inherently a small man's sport. Sure, there are guys like Zlatan Ibrahimovic out there. But for every one of him, there are five guys like Messi, Neymar, Sterling, etc, who are in the 5'6" 5'9" range. Stop focusing on size for a sport where it rarely matters beyond goalkeeper.

Statistically, Average FIFA player height is 5’9.5-5’10” hardly giants and that includes goalkeepers in the average who are much taller.

No soccer is not inherently a small man sport. Average height in the premier league is 5’11.5”, Bundesliga 6’ and la liga 5’ 10.75”. Average height in UK -5’10, Germany 5’11” and Spain 5’9”(South American average 5’7”). Excluding goalies, your typical premier league roster will have 15-20% of the players 5’8” and below(very few are 5’6” or below), 30% 5’9”-5’10” and 55% 5’11 or taller.

Look at Chelsea three players 5’8” and below, 25 - 6’ plus. Man city was the shortest as a team but they have 6 players below 5’8” including one 5’5”, one 5’6” and three 5’7”. Still they have more players 5’11” and over(11) vs player 5’8” and below. If soccer was inherently a short man’s sport the majority of players would 5’9” or below.

I think the poster's point is that there is no other sport in the world where a third of the players are 5'9" and below - outside of racehorse jockeys. Looking locally, DC United has 9 players who are 5'9" and below. And this may come as a shock to you, but men tend to fib an inch or two about size. So, it's likely about half of the roster being below the average height for a man in the U.S. Nobody said you can't play soccer if you're tall, but it's the only sport where half of the players are below average height. And, if you look at the stars - you can name more under 5'10" than you can over it. Maradona, Pele, Neymar, Messi - all 5'8" or below. Think the poster's point about it being a short man's sport is a pretty solid one.

Gymnastics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have to stop separating big kids and little kids on the soccer field. And, giving big kids a legs up is hurting not just the kid you're playing up but the entire system. This is a huge problem for soccer in the U.S. Other countries do not care about size and physicality - they care about skills. Our way of promoting and advancing creates a bunch of 6'2" pros who can't keep up or know the game from a tactical standpoint. Just as basketball is inherently a big man's sport - soccer is inherently a small man's sport. Sure, there are guys like Zlatan Ibrahimovic out there. But for every one of him, there are five guys like Messi, Neymar, Sterling, etc, who are in the 5'6" 5'9" range. Stop focusing on size for a sport where it rarely matters beyond goalkeeper.

Statistically, Average FIFA player height is 5’9.5-5’10” hardly giants and that includes goalkeepers in the average who are much taller.

No soccer is not inherently a small man sport. Average height in the premier league is 5’11.5”, Bundesliga 6’ and la liga 5’ 10.75”. Average height in UK -5’10, Germany 5’11” and Spain 5’9”(South American average 5’7”). Excluding goalies, your typical premier league roster will have 15-20% of the players 5’8” and below(very few are 5’6” or below), 30% 5’9”-5’10” and 55% 5’11 or taller.

Look at Chelsea three players 5’8” and below, 25 - 6’ plus. Man city was the shortest as a team but they have 6 players below 5’8” including one 5’5”, one 5’6” and three 5’7”. Still they have more players 5’11” and over(11) vs player 5’8” and below. If soccer was inherently a short man’s sport the majority of players would 5’9” or below.

I think the poster's point is that there is no other sport in the world where a third of the players are 5'9" and below - outside of racehorse jockeys. Looking locally, DC United has 9 players who are 5'9" and below. And this may come as a shock to you, but men tend to fib an inch or two about size. So, it's likely about half of the roster being below the average height for a man in the U.S. Nobody said you can't play soccer if you're tall, but it's the only sport where half of the players are below average height. And, if you look at the stars - you can name more under 5'10" than you can over it. Maradona, Pele, Neymar, Messi - all 5'8" or below. Think the poster's point about it being a short man's sport is a pretty solid one.

Gymnastics?

Very true, but only a few dozen have ever made a living in gymnastics - and a very short-lived career at that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have to stop separating big kids and little kids on the soccer field. And, giving big kids a legs up is hurting not just the kid you're playing up but the entire system. This is a huge problem for soccer in the U.S. Other countries do not care about size and physicality - they care about skills. Our way of promoting and advancing creates a bunch of 6'2" pros who can't keep up or know the game from a tactical standpoint. Just as basketball is inherently a big man's sport - soccer is inherently a small man's sport. Sure, there are guys like Zlatan Ibrahimovic out there. But for every one of him, there are five guys like Messi, Neymar, Sterling, etc, who are in the 5'6" 5'9" range. Stop focusing on size for a sport where it rarely matters beyond goalkeeper.

Statistically, Average FIFA player height is 5’9.5-5’10” hardly giants and that includes goalkeepers in the average who are much taller.

No soccer is not inherently a small man sport. Average height in the premier league is 5’11.5”, Bundesliga 6’ and la liga 5’ 10.75”. Average height in UK -5’10, Germany 5’11” and Spain 5’9”(South American average 5’7”). Excluding goalies, your typical premier league roster will have 15-20% of the players 5’8” and below(very few are 5’6” or below), 30% 5’9”-5’10” and 55% 5’11 or taller.

Look at Chelsea three players 5’8” and below, 25 - 6’ plus. Man city was the shortest as a team but they have 6 players below 5’8” including one 5’5”, one 5’6” and three 5’7”. Still they have more players 5’11” and over(11) vs player 5’8” and below. If soccer was inherently a short man’s sport the majority of players would 5’9” or below.

I think the poster's point is that there is no other sport in the world where a third of the players are 5'9" and below - outside of racehorse jockeys. Looking locally, DC United has 9 players who are 5'9" and below. And this may come as a shock to you, but men tend to fib an inch or two about size. So, it's likely about half of the roster being below the average height for a man in the U.S. Nobody said you can't play soccer if you're tall, but it's the only sport where half of the players are below average height. And, if you look at the stars - you can name more under 5'10" than you can over it. Maradona, Pele, Neymar, Messi - all 5'8" or below. Think the poster's point about it being a short man's sport is a pretty solid one.

No it’s not a small man’s game. The majority of players in the best leagues are 5’10 or taller- like 70% of a team. Most developed countries average male height is 5’9”. The number of players below 5’9” in the top leagues it drops off like a rock. You will see many more 5’9” player vs 5’8” or smaller. So a small man can play soccer but he will have to be very quick and will be at a disadvantage.

Let’s look at the best players in the game today. 5'11" Kevin De Bruyne, 6'0" Robert Lewandowski, Son Heung-min, 6'1" Cristiano Ronaldo, 6'2" Harry Kane, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, 6'3" Paul Pogba, 6'4" Virgil van Dijk, Eriling Haaland. You can add Messi to the list but notice a pattern? The small player is the expect to the rule …like Muggsy Bogues or Doug Flutie. Yes there are players who are short in all sports but they are few and far between.

I am really tired of people who point to the exception to the rule and saying soccer is a short man’s game. There is a clear advantage to being tall in soccer to about 6’4”.

[Anonymous]

No soccer is not inherently a small man sport. Average height in the premier league is 5’11.5”, Bundesliga 6’ and la liga 5’ 10.75”. Average height in UK -5’10, Germany 5’11” and Spain 5’9”(South American average 5’7”). Excluding goalies, your typical premier league roster will have 15-20% of the players 5’8” and below(very few are 5’6” or below), 30% 5’9”-5’10” and 55% 5’11 or taller.

Look at Chelsea three players 5’8” and below, 25 - 6’ plus. Man city was the shortest as a team but they have 6 players below 5’8” including one 5’5”, one 5’6” and three 5’7”. Still they have more players 5’11” and over(11) vs player 5’8” and below. If soccer was inherently a short man’s sport the majority of players would 5’9” or below.

I think the poster's point is that there is no other sport in the world where a third of the players are 5'9" and below - outside of racehorse jockeys. Looking locally, DC United has 9 players who are 5'9" and below. And this may come as a shock to you, but men tend to fib an inch or two about size. So, it's likely about half of the roster being below the average height for a man in the U.S. Nobody said you can't play soccer if you're tall, but it's the only sport where half of the players are below average height. And, if you look at the stars - you can name more under 5'10" than you can over it. Maradona, Pele, Neymar, Messi - all 5'8" or below. Think the poster's point about it being a short man's sport is a pretty solid one.

No it’s not a small man’s game. The majority of players in the best leagues are 5’10 or taller- like 70% of a team. Most developed countries average male height is 5’9”. The number of players below 5’9” in the top leagues it drops off like a rock. You will see many more 5’9” player vs 5’8” or smaller. So a small man can play soccer but he will have to be very quick and will be at a disadvantage.

Let’s look at the best players in the game today. 5'11" Kevin De Bruyne, 6'0" Robert Lewandowski, Son Heung-min, 6'1" Cristiano Ronaldo, 6'2" Harry Kane, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, 6'3" Paul Pogba, 6'4" Virgil van Dijk, Eriling Haaland. You can add Messi to the list but notice a pattern? The small player is the expect to the rule …like Muggsy Bogues or Doug Flutie. Yes there are players who are short in all sports but they are few and far between.

I am really tired of people who point to the exception to the rule and saying soccer is a short man’s game. There is a clear advantage to being tall in soccer to about 6’4”.

Most forwards are under 5'9". And your list of "best players in the game" is a bit different than the list most would recognize. Oh, I guess you can add Messi to the list....Good lord. Trust me, soccer stadiums are not filling to see Robert Lewandowski over Lionel Messi. I'm not the OP but the average professional soccer player is 5'9" with about 40% of rosters under that. List them. You'll see.

[Anonymous]

Golf has traditionally been a smaller man’s game, although that has changed of late as the players have become more athletic since Tiger Woods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have to stop separating big kids and little kids on the soccer field. And, giving big kids a legs up is hurting not just the kid you're playing up but the entire system. This is a huge problem for soccer in the U.S. Other countries do not care about size and physicality - they care about skills. Our way of promoting and advancing creates a bunch of 6'2" pros who can't keep up or know the game from a tactical standpoint. Just as basketball is inherently a big man's sport - soccer is inherently a small man's sport. Sure, there are guys like Zlatan Ibrahimovic out there. But for every one of him, there are five guys like Messi, Neymar, Sterling, etc, who are in the 5'6" 5'9" range. Stop focusing on size for a sport where it rarely matters beyond goalkeeper.

Statistically, Average FIFA player height is 5’9.5-5’10” hardly giants and that includes goalkeepers in the average who are much taller.

No soccer is not inherently a small man sport. Average height in the premier league is 5’11.5”, Bundesliga 6’ and la liga 5’ 10.75”. Average height in UK -5’10, Germany 5’11” and Spain 5’9”(South American average 5’7”). Excluding goalies, your typical premier league roster will have 15-20% of the players 5’8” and below(very few are 5’6” or below), 30% 5’9”-5’10” and 55% 5’11 or taller.

Look at Chelsea three players 5’8” and below, 25 - 6’ plus. Man city was the shortest as a team but they have 6 players below 5’8” including one 5’5”, one 5’6” and three 5’7”. Still they have more players 5’11” and over(11) vs player 5’8” and below. If soccer was inherently a short man’s sport the majority of players would 5’9” or below.

I think the poster's point is that there is no other sport in the world where a third of the players are 5'9" and below - outside of racehorse jockeys. Looking locally, DC United has 9 players who are 5'9" and below. And this may come as a shock to you, but men tend to fib an inch or two about size. So, it's likely about half of the roster being below the average height for a man in the U.S. Nobody said you can't play soccer if you're tall, but it's the only sport where half of the players are below average height. And, if you look at the stars - you can name more under 5'10" than you can over it. Maradona, Pele, Neymar, Messi - all 5'8" or below. Think the poster's point about it being a short man's sport is a pretty solid one.

No it’s not a small man’s game. The majority of players in the best leagues are 5’10 or taller- like 70% of a team. Most developed countries average male height is 5’9”. The number of players below 5’9” in the top leagues it drops off like a rock. You will see many more 5’9” player vs 5’8” or smaller. So a small man can play soccer but he will have to be very quick and will be at a disadvantage.

Let’s look at the best players in the game today. 5'11" Kevin De Bruyne, 6'0" Robert Lewandowski, Son Heung-min, 6'1" Cristiano Ronaldo, 6'2" Harry Kane, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, 6'3" Paul Pogba, 6'4" Virgil van Dijk, Eriling Haaland. You can add Messi to the list but notice a pattern? The small player is the expect to the rule …like Muggsy Bogues or Doug Flutie. Yes there are players who are short in all sports but they are few and far between.

I am really tired of people who point to the exception to the rule and saying soccer is a short man’s game. There is a clear advantage to being tall in soccer to about 6’4”.

5’9 and 5’10” are AVERAGE not tall.

Look at the height of pro male athletes in all other sports: hockey (6’1”), football (6’2”), basketball (6’6”) and baseball (avg. 6’1.5”)

Soccer does NOT require height outside of keeper.

Nobody disputes that Fifa is getting more physical these days.

[Anonymous]

Best players ever:

Messi 5’6.5”
Maradona 5’5”
Pele 5’8”
Ronaldo 6’1”
Iniesta 5’7”
Cruyff 5’10”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Best players ever:

Messi 5’6.5”
Maradona 5’5”
Pele 5’8”
Ronaldo 6’1”
Iniesta 5’7”
Cruyff 5’10”

Best American:
Pulisic 5’8”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Best players ever:

Messi 5’6.5”
Maradona 5’5”
Pele 5’8”
Ronaldo 6’1”
Iniesta 5’7”
Cruyff 5’10”

Best American:
Pulisic 5’8”

^Yeah. Pretty amazing given American coach’s obsession with size