Help me understand the importance of native plants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They’re not important.

Plant what YOU like.

"Let the bees eat cake!"

Bees aren’t native, either dummy. They pollinate non-native fruit, nut and vegetable crops.

We can do this all day….

We can; it’s not going to make your uninformed arguments any more persuasive. No, honeybees aren’t native, but there are 4,000 native bees in America. Haven’t noticed any in your yard, not many birds or butterflies? No, you haven’t; there’s nothing for them to eat, nowhere to live. That’s what we’re talking about. DP.

Correct. Honey bees are not the only bee species. There are many, many species of native bees. And plenty of books, websites, and information out there to educate you (the Bees aren't native poster) so you don't sound so ignorant. Maybe use some of that energy put towards snark, and do something useful with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Get this guy's books. Also, any non-native plant has the potential to become invasive. Ask me about the effort and money that I've spent trying to eradicate some atrocities that the former owners planted. I have a garden full of native plants and a huge amount of bumblebees, other native bees and wasps, tons of butterflies and birds. The never bothered my two very active boys who played outside all the time. We kept a small patch of grass
for soccer but the rest is all native plants.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/meet-ecologist-who-wants-unleash-wild-backyard-180974372/

+100000 on these books. "Bringing Nature Home" and "Nature's Best Hope." The best books for me when I was a beginner. Breaks the science down easily and helpful in planning what to plant. This guy is great!

"Bees in your Backyard", which is a guide to bees in North America, was also great. And, if your interested in Mason Bees, "Mason Been Revolution." Also tons of websites, FB groups, etc. to help those interested in being educated and making changes in your yard.

[Anonymous]

OP, you have set up a few false constructs: 1) that is just about bees (it isn't); 2) that its about "more" beautiful plants (it isn't, and of course eye of the beholder and all), and 3) that planting native plants means never using any non-natives.

None of that is on point.

While some naturalists and environmentalists disagree, most find that it is OK to use a few non-native plants as long as they are not invasive or harmful. It is vital that we all incorporate natives too though. Know that if you choose plants that aren't right for your local climate (native or not), it will take more time and money and probably chemicals to make them thrive where they don't belong (so that is wasteful and not great for the environment overall), but if you choose even a non-native plant that is happy with your climate (e.g., azaleas and hydrangeas), that won't be an issue.

The other point about non natives is that they provide less support for the native environment, which is why you should choose them sparingly and incorporate natives around them. When you see shrubs with berries that birds don't eat -- you may see a great ornamental; I see a problem (also some of the non-native berries are toxic to our wildlife - e.g. nandina). When you see native butterflies flocking to a non-native plant, you might think that is a great thing, but an entomologist will tell you that the attractive bush is distracting the butterfly from what it needs to be doing to ensure its offspring survive (see articles on buddelia).

The other thing to know is that for most non-native plants that you love, there are often native versions that are just as great (we have native azaleas and native hydrangeas), or at least hybrids that are less harmful (there is a variety of nandina that does not produce the toxic berries). So my philosophy is that if you choose a non-native to incorporate among your native plants, do so thoughtfully and with all your research done to make sure you are not a part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are not “ saving the planet” with your tiny yard.

But you can do a lot of harm with your tiny plot.

[Anonymous]

I want to thank the OP for starting this thread, and several of the responders for sending me browsing sources that provide native plants. I had been looking without much luck earlier.

80% of our property is left alone (we have acreage). In our previous home (similar situation), I had started reclaiming the woods from the invasives by planting natives. Our current property is less disturbed, but also seem to lack ephemerals, so I’ll work on that some.

The 20% that is landscaped, is a lot of lawn (DH won’t budge on that one), with extensive landscaping that is a mix of natives and non-natives. The few beds that the landscaper is not responsible for, I’m attempting more native species. However, it’s challenging, not only because of the soil (marine clay), and wetness, but because it is highly visible, and cannot be left to look wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to thank the OP for starting this thread, and several of the responders for sending me browsing sources that provide native plants. I had been looking without much luck earlier.

80% of our property is left alone (we have acreage). In our previous home (similar situation), I had started reclaiming the woods from the invasives by planting natives. Our current property is less disturbed, but also seem to lack ephemerals, so I’ll work on that some.

The 20% that is landscaped, is a lot of lawn (DH won’t budge on that one), with extensive landscaping that is a mix of natives and non-natives. The few beds that the landscaper is not responsible for, I’m attempting more native species. However, it’s challenging, not only because of the soil (marine clay), and wetness, but because it is highly visible, and cannot be left to look wild.

Just because you have land and I do not, I’m wondering if you would be able to do holistic management practices on your acreage. It does require a herd of cattle, and for them to be moved frequently, which might not be something you can do but the ideas are worth exploring and would encourage natives within your pasture/wild areas as well as building top soil and sequestering carbon. https://savory.global/what-is-holistic-management/ I don’t remember which book I first encountered these ideas, but I am reading this right now https://www.amazon.com/Cows-Save-Planet-Improbable-Restoring/dp/1603584323 and it explains it well.

For anyone wanting to buy native plants online or learn more about individual plants, many plants at these outlets work on the east coast (and every plant has a range map, so you can see if it “belongs” in your yard):
https://www.prairienursery.com/
https://www.prairiemoon.com/
https://www.blazingstargardens.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are not “ saving the planet” with your tiny yard.

Wrong. People like OP are leading the way and WILL affect positive change for the environment, especially when we reach a critical mass. If we’re all rowing in the same direction, we’ll go a lot faster. And one political party is effectively blocking all big movement on solving this at the national level, so we’re going to have to do what we can in our yards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to thank the OP for starting this thread, and several of the responders for sending me browsing sources that provide native plants. I had been looking without much luck earlier.

80% of our property is left alone (we have acreage). In our previous home (similar situation), I had started reclaiming the woods from the invasives by planting natives. Our current property is less disturbed, but also seem to lack ephemerals, so I’ll work on that some.

The 20% that is landscaped, is a lot of lawn (DH won’t budge on that one), with extensive landscaping that is a mix of natives and non-natives. The few beds that the landscaper is not responsible for, I’m attempting more native species. However, it’s challenging, not only because of the soil (marine clay), and wetness, but because it is highly visible, and cannot be left to look wild.

Just because you have land and I do not, I’m wondering if you would be able to do holistic management practices on your acreage. It does require a herd of cattle, and for them to be moved frequently, which might not be something you can do but the ideas are worth exploring and would encourage natives within your pasture/wild areas as well as building top soil and sequestering carbon. https://savory.global/what-is-holistic-management/ I don’t remember which book I first encountered these ideas, but I am reading this right now https://www.amazon.com/Cows-Save-Planet-Improbable-Restoring/dp/1603584323 and it explains it well.

For anyone wanting to buy native plants online or learn more about individual plants, many plants at these outlets work on the east coast (and every plant has a range map, so you can see if it “belongs” in your yard):
https://www.prairienursery.com/
https://www.prairiemoon.com/
https://www.blazingstargardens.com/

I don't unfortunately, have that kind of land. The 80% is pretty much all wooded, with some small areas that are open (but wet or prone to periodic flooding). I have been looking for sources for something like the American Swamp Rose for that region, and the Prairie Nursery has it.

This is a pretty good list of native plant nurseries (local and mail order)

https://www.nutsfornatives.com/where-to-buy-native-plants

I am also currently looking at The Pollen Nation.

[Anonymous]

I gotta say, I went out at lunch -- my front yard is all flowers, mostly natives/pollinator-friendly species -- and there were hardly any bees or butterflies out there compared to previous years. So far we have only seen those little white butterflies (which I hope aren't cabbage butterflies, since I have planted eggplant) -- no monarchs, no black, yellow, or blue swallowtails, and none of the little orange, yellow, or brown types we usually see. We currently have coneflowers, liatris, milkweed, sunflowers, coreopsis, monarda/wild bergamot, agastache/hyssop, and lavender in bloom, and usually they are covered with flying things. Last year we could literally have a hundred bees of at least a half dozen different species on the hyssop alone, today I could count them on one hand and zero bumblebees or honeybees. It's worrisome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I gotta say, I went out at lunch -- my front yard is all flowers, mostly natives/pollinator-friendly species -- and there were hardly any bees or butterflies out there compared to previous years. So far we have only seen those little white butterflies (which I hope aren't cabbage butterflies, since I have planted eggplant) -- no monarchs, no black, yellow, or blue swallowtails, and none of the little orange, yellow, or brown types we usually see. We currently have coneflowers, liatris, milkweed, sunflowers, coreopsis, monarda/wild bergamot, agastache/hyssop, and lavender in bloom, and usually they are covered with flying things. Last year we could literally have a hundred bees of at least a half dozen different species on the hyssop alone, today I could count them on one hand and zero bumblebees or honeybees. It's worrisome.

It’s legitimately frightening. I don’t have much native (yet), but the absence of birdsong is noticeable. I have some plants that are basically weeds (I haven’t gotten close, but I think one is aster and I know one is a native silene) that I would have pulled in years past. They’re staying now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I gotta say, I went out at lunch -- my front yard is all flowers, mostly natives/pollinator-friendly species -- and there were hardly any bees or butterflies out there compared to previous years. So far we have only seen those little white butterflies (which I hope aren't cabbage butterflies, since I have planted eggplant) -- no monarchs, no black, yellow, or blue swallowtails, and none of the little orange, yellow, or brown types we usually see. We currently have coneflowers, liatris, milkweed, sunflowers, coreopsis, monarda/wild bergamot, agastache/hyssop, and lavender in bloom, and usually they are covered with flying things. Last year we could literally have a hundred bees of at least a half dozen different species on the hyssop alone, today I could count them on one hand and zero bumblebees or honeybees. It's worrisome.

It’s legitimately frightening. I don’t have much native (yet), but the absence of birdsong is noticeable. I have some plants that are basically weeds (I haven’t gotten close, but I think one is aster and I know one is a native silene) that I would have pulled in years past. They’re staying now.

They must be all in my yard. We've noticed the orange swallowtails, the little flittering brown/orange onces, moths, bees of many species, hummingbirds. Monarchs we have seen later in the season. My milkweed is just now blooming. We've had loads of bird nests this year: robins, blue birds, wrens, chickadees, finches. We've even idenfied a new bird species we have never seen before. So be patient. It could take a couple of years. Longer if your neighbors use lots of pest/herbicides. Some bees -mason bees for example- will not nest in areas with that stuff.

Good luck and thanks for doing what you're doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are not “ saving the planet” with your tiny yard.

Wrong. People like OP are leading the way and WILL affect positive change for the environment, especially when we reach a critical mass. If we’re all rowing in the same direction, we’ll go a lot faster. And one political party is effectively blocking all big movement on solving this at the national level, so we’re going to have to do what we can in our yards.

I was with you until you brought politics into it. Most people, regardless of political party or how much lip service they pay to caring about the environment, demonstrate day after day through their actions that they simply DO NOT CARE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I gotta say, I went out at lunch -- my front yard is all flowers, mostly natives/pollinator-friendly species -- and there were hardly any bees or butterflies out there compared to previous years. So far we have only seen those little white butterflies (which I hope aren't cabbage butterflies, since I have planted eggplant) -- no monarchs, no black, yellow, or blue swallowtails, and none of the little orange, yellow, or brown types we usually see. We currently have coneflowers, liatris, milkweed, sunflowers, coreopsis, monarda/wild bergamot, agastache/hyssop, and lavender in bloom, and usually they are covered with flying things. Last year we could literally have a hundred bees of at least a half dozen different species on the hyssop alone, today I could count them on one hand and zero bumblebees or honeybees. It's worrisome.

It’s legitimately frightening. I don’t have much native (yet), but the absence of birdsong is noticeable. I have some plants that are basically weeds (I haven’t gotten close, but I think one is aster and I know one is a native silene) that I would have pulled in years past. They’re staying now.

They must be all in my yard. We've noticed the orange swallowtails, the little flittering brown/orange onces, moths, bees of many species, hummingbirds. Monarchs we have seen later in the season. My milkweed is just now blooming. We've had loads of bird nests this year: robins, blue birds, wrens, chickadees, finches. We've even idenfied a new bird species we have never seen before. So be patient. It could take a couple of years. Longer if your neighbors use lots of pest/herbicides. Some bees -mason bees for example- will not nest in areas with that stuff.

Good luck and thanks for doing what you're doing.

While I have lots of bees and other bugs, butterflies are noticeably absent. 8 or 10 years ago, I didn't pay any attention to them because there were so many, but not any more. We're sort of an oasis in a typical housing development, with lots of unused land adjacent, and I am frankly baffled by the lack of species diversity that I see around here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I gotta say, I went out at lunch -- my front yard is all flowers, mostly natives/pollinator-friendly species -- and there were hardly any bees or butterflies out there compared to previous years. So far we have only seen those little white butterflies (which I hope aren't cabbage butterflies, since I have planted eggplant) -- no monarchs, no black, yellow, or blue swallowtails, and none of the little orange, yellow, or brown types we usually see. We currently have coneflowers, liatris, milkweed, sunflowers, coreopsis, monarda/wild bergamot, agastache/hyssop, and lavender in bloom, and usually they are covered with flying things. Last year we could literally have a hundred bees of at least a half dozen different species on the hyssop alone, today I could count them on one hand and zero bumblebees or honeybees. It's worrisome.

It’s legitimately frightening. I don’t have much native (yet), but the absence of birdsong is noticeable. I have some plants that are basically weeds (I haven’t gotten close, but I think one is aster and I know one is a native silene) that I would have pulled in years past. They’re staying now.

They must be all in my yard. We've noticed the orange swallowtails, the little flittering brown/orange onces, moths, bees of many species, hummingbirds. Monarchs we have seen later in the season. My milkweed is just now blooming. We've had loads of bird nests this year: robins, blue birds, wrens, chickadees, finches. We've even idenfied a new bird species we have never seen before. So be patient. It could take a couple of years. Longer if your neighbors use lots of pest/herbicides. Some bees -mason bees for example- will not nest in areas with that stuff.

Good luck and thanks for doing what you're doing.

I'm glad you have them. My plants aren't new, but noticing that the bugs are gone is. Birds we are doing OK with and fingers crossed I haven't seen any with the eye disease yet. I've seen at least two separate clutches of robins hopping around, and I currently have a pair of flickers that must be nesting somewhere nearby because I see them all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are not “ saving the planet” with your tiny yard.

Wrong. People like OP are leading the way and WILL affect positive change for the environment, especially when we reach a critical mass. If we’re all rowing in the same direction, we’ll go a lot faster. And one political party is effectively blocking all big movement on solving this at the national level, so we’re going to have to do what we can in our yards.

I was with you until you brought politics into it. Most people, regardless of political party or how much lip service they pay to caring about the environment, demonstrate day after day through their actions that they simply DO NOT CARE.

Hm. Disagree. And in this case, the political aspect is crucial because we are not making huge progress due to the stubbornness of one group of people. Whether or not you like that truth being stated, you agree with my larger point: we can’t make big policy changes right now, so this is in all of our laps.