City gov and EV owners

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a very strong anti EV crowd in DC. When I bought mine I was expecting grief from the "rolling coal" crowd, but I have not seen any of that, simply condemnation from the "ban cars" crowd. Far more so than I used to personally witness when I road a gas car. I think that the bike/car banning crowd, saw a city with no cars in their reaches and now are seeing this popularizing of EV's. The easiest way to fight that is to make them as difficult as possible to own and make their ownership seen as some sort of equality denial indicator.

I think you’re overestimating the number of people in D.C. who want to ban cars and also the extent to which they thought that goal was actually achievable. It is true that some people working in this space think EVs are just a bandaid on the underlying problem of a society that’s organized to be too car-centric (a sentiment which I agree with to some extent, which is why I try to walk, bike, or take public transit rather than driving even an electric car when I can). But most policy makers and advocates would rather have electric cars than gas-powered ones, even as they also want to make it easier and more convenient to get around without any cars at all.

Not to mention that #BanCars doesn't literally mean: ban cars. It means: greatly reduce the car-centricity of our land use and transportation system, especially in cities.

I think that are definitely people who believe that switching from internal-combustion-engine cars to electric cars will solve all car-related problems, and it won't. The only car-related problem it will solve is tailpipe emissions. It will also reduce carbon emissions, if the electricity for charging the cars comes from renewable sources. All of the other problems - parking, roads, traffic, sprawl, a car-dependent lifestyle, serious injuries and deaths - will still be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen a few. At first I thought it was just something different. After having tripped over them a couple of times, I now accidentally kick them out

Good job! EV's should only be for suburban people that can afford to have a garage or carport.

I would start with: if you get an EV, you need to figure out a way to charge it without obstructing the sidewalk.

Yup. In DC, many, many people have parking spots and garages. buying an EV if you only have street parking seems like a real lack of forethought. Especially because most EVs are not particularly cheap and rarely available used, so the population we're talking about are not exactly hurting for cash.

Now, if EVs were more accessible to the broader population, I'd support installing charging stations on curbs to accommodate them. But as it currently stands, this would just be a convincing for people who are already extremely privileged. They can figure it out.

If the city had more widely available fast charging stations, this would be easier to pull off as a policy. But by effectively proposing that only people with off street parking can get EVs, you’re going to ensure that the underlying situation you identify — they’re mostly owned by rich people — continues. (You actually can find used Nissan Leafs or Chevy Bolts pretty easily, and they cost around $20,000 — not super cheap, obviously, but hardly out of reach for everyone.) The solution to EV cables blocking sidewalks is better EV infrastructure, not fewer EVs.

Unless you are willing to put up the capital to invest in charging stations in an area with extremely high real estate prices then I suggest what you are proposing is not realistic. Just as it is not the governments responsibility to build gas stations, it is not the gocernments responsibility to build EV infrastructure. However, it is the governments job to protect residents from nuisance on public right of ways. If you want better charging infrastructure, you would be better served petitioning Tesla or property developers. In the mean time people need to keep their cords off the sidewalk.

It's not the government's responsibility to provide charging stations, true, but it could get involved in incentivizing them, which it already does do for private owners. (I'll get a tax credit for the charging setup I installed for my EV, which we park in our driveway.) Or it could require private developers to put them in if they want permission to build. Electrify America, which is a Volkswagen spinoff, put chargers in the Walmart parking lot on Georgia Avenue -- that's the kind of thing that would help make it feasible to own an EV (which benefits all of us who breathe, since they don't emit anything while driving) without obstructing sidewalks (which also benefits us all, for obvious reasons).

I don’t care what your excuses are. Stop making a nuisance for everyone else, especially the elderly and disabled.

I literally said I park and charge my EV in my driveway, which means it’s only a nuisance for me and my family, and also that the city should work to make it easier for people to charge without needing to run cables across the sidewalk. What excuses are you talking about?

Let me rephrase, you are making excuses for other peoples nuisance. Better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen a few. At first I thought it was just something different. After having tripped over them a couple of times, I now accidentally kick them out

Good job! EV's should only be for suburban people that can afford to have a garage or carport.

I would start with: if you get an EV, you need to figure out a way to charge it without obstructing the sidewalk.

Yup. In DC, many, many people have parking spots and garages. buying an EV if you only have street parking seems like a real lack of forethought. Especially because most EVs are not particularly cheap and rarely available used, so the population we're talking about are not exactly hurting for cash.

Now, if EVs were more accessible to the broader population, I'd support installing charging stations on curbs to accommodate them. But as it currently stands, this would just be a convincing for people who are already extremely privileged. They can figure it out.

If the city had more widely available fast charging stations, this would be easier to pull off as a policy. But by effectively proposing that only people with off street parking can get EVs, you’re going to ensure that the underlying situation you identify — they’re mostly owned by rich people — continues. (You actually can find used Nissan Leafs or Chevy Bolts pretty easily, and they cost around $20,000 — not super cheap, obviously, but hardly out of reach for everyone.) The solution to EV cables blocking sidewalks is better EV infrastructure, not fewer EVs.

Unless you are willing to put up the capital to invest in charging stations in an area with extremely high real estate prices then I suggest what you are proposing is not realistic. Just as it is not the governments responsibility to build gas stations, it is not the gocernments responsibility to build EV infrastructure. However, it is the governments job to protect residents from nuisance on public right of ways. If you want better charging infrastructure, you would be better served petitioning Tesla or property developers. In the mean time people need to keep their cords off the sidewalk.

It's not the government's responsibility to provide charging stations, true, but it could get involved in incentivizing them, which it already does do for private owners. (I'll get a tax credit for the charging setup I installed for my EV, which we park in our driveway.) Or it could require private developers to put them in if they want permission to build. Electrify America, which is a Volkswagen spinoff, put chargers in the Walmart parking lot on Georgia Avenue -- that's the kind of thing that would help make it feasible to own an EV (which benefits all of us who breathe, since they don't emit anything while driving) without obstructing sidewalks (which also benefits us all, for obvious reasons).

I don’t care what your excuses are. Stop making a nuisance for everyone else, especially the elderly and disabled.

I literally said I park and charge my EV in my driveway, which means it’s only a nuisance for me and my family, and also that the city should work to make it easier for people to charge without needing to run cables across the sidewalk. What excuses are you talking about?

Let me rephrase, you are making excuses for other peoples nuisance. Better?

No, you're still wrong. I’m suggesting that the city should make it easier for other people to charge their cars without being a nuisance, because electric cars are better for everyone than gas cars, and if people who don’t have a driveway or private parking spot can charge without interfering with the sidewalk, then it’d be easier for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen a few. At first I thought it was just something different. After having tripped over them a couple of times, I now accidentally kick them out

Good job! EV's should only be for suburban people that can afford to have a garage or carport.

I would start with: if you get an EV, you need to figure out a way to charge it without obstructing the sidewalk.

Yup. In DC, many, many people have parking spots and garages. buying an EV if you only have street parking seems like a real lack of forethought. Especially because most EVs are not particularly cheap and rarely available used, so the population we're talking about are not exactly hurting for cash.

Now, if EVs were more accessible to the broader population, I'd support installing charging stations on curbs to accommodate them. But as it currently stands, this would just be a convincing for people who are already extremely privileged. They can figure it out.

If the city had more widely available fast charging stations, this would be easier to pull off as a policy. But by effectively proposing that only people with off street parking can get EVs, you’re going to ensure that the underlying situation you identify — they’re mostly owned by rich people — continues. (You actually can find used Nissan Leafs or Chevy Bolts pretty easily, and they cost around $20,000 — not super cheap, obviously, but hardly out of reach for everyone.) The solution to EV cables blocking sidewalks is better EV infrastructure, not fewer EVs.

Unless you are willing to put up the capital to invest in charging stations in an area with extremely high real estate prices then I suggest what you are proposing is not realistic. Just as it is not the governments responsibility to build gas stations, it is not the gocernments responsibility to build EV infrastructure. However, it is the governments job to protect residents from nuisance on public right of ways. If you want better charging infrastructure, you would be better served petitioning Tesla or property developers. In the mean time people need to keep their cords off the sidewalk.

It's not the government's responsibility to provide charging stations, true, but it could get involved in incentivizing them, which it already does do for private owners. (I'll get a tax credit for the charging setup I installed for my EV, which we park in our driveway.) Or it could require private developers to put them in if they want permission to build. Electrify America, which is a Volkswagen spinoff, put chargers in the Walmart parking lot on Georgia Avenue -- that's the kind of thing that would help make it feasible to own an EV (which benefits all of us who breathe, since they don't emit anything while driving) without obstructing sidewalks (which also benefits us all, for obvious reasons).

I don’t care what your excuses are. Stop making a nuisance for everyone else, especially the elderly and disabled.

I literally said I park and charge my EV in my driveway, which means it’s only a nuisance for me and my family, and also that the city should work to make it easier for people to charge without needing to run cables across the sidewalk. What excuses are you talking about?

Let me rephrase, you are making excuses for other peoples nuisance. Better?

No, you're still wrong. I’m suggesting that the city should make it easier for other people to charge their cars without being a nuisance, because electric cars are better for everyone than gas cars, and if people who don’t have a driveway or private parking spot can charge without interfering with the sidewalk, then it’d be easier for everyone.

The city is not making it harder and has no obligation to make it easier to effectively award people designated parking spaces with curbside charging stations in front of their homes. Giving away public right of way to private interests is really poor policy, no matter why you think its important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen a few. At first I thought it was just something different. After having tripped over them a couple of times, I now accidentally kick them out

Good job! EV's should only be for suburban people that can afford to have a garage or carport.

If you can afford to live in DC, you can afford to live in the burbs and have a house with a driveway or garage. What you do with the extra money leftover is up to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen a few. At first I thought it was just something different. After having tripped over them a couple of times, I now accidentally kick them out

Good job! EV's should only be for suburban people that can afford to have a garage or carport.

You shouldn’t have a car in the city. People that live in the city should ride bikes.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen a few. At first I thought it was just something different. After having tripped over them a couple of times, I now accidentally kick them out

Good job! EV's should only be for suburban people that can afford to have a garage or carport.

If you can afford to live in DC, you can afford to live in the burbs and have a house with a driveway or garage. What you do with the extra money leftover is up to you.

Evidently you cannot because according to one calculation earlier in the thread, DC charges 10/gal equivalent for charging. Maybe DC residents should buy Stanley Steamer coal steam engine powered cars since the city wants pollution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen a few. At first I thought it was just something different. After having tripped over them a couple of times, I now accidentally kick them out

Good job! EV's should only be for suburban people that can afford to have a garage or carport.

If you can afford to live in DC, you can afford to live in the burbs and have a house with a driveway or garage. What you do with the extra money leftover is up to you.

Evidently you cannot because according to one calculation earlier in the thread, DC charges 10/gal equivalent for charging. Maybe DC residents should buy Stanley Steamer coal steam engine powered cars since the city wants pollution.

If the city was truly progressive it would be investing its transportation monies and designing its public spaces around everything but cars.

Given that DC is not doing that (and I think they should be) I'm torn about the extent to which DC should be putting efforts into making it easier for people to charge their EVs in public spaces.

I think what tips it for me is that the neighborhoods where space is tight and people don't really have garages/off street parking also tend to be the most walkable and dense neighborhoods and hence the neighborhoods where it really doesn't make sense to facilitate residents driving, even if using an EV is slightly less harmful to the environment than a fossil fuel powered car.

So I'm in the camp that DC should put its efforts into building a city that is more walkable and has better bike infra and public transportation all of which would allow people who genuinely care about the environment to actually practice what they preach rather than pretending they are doing something for out planet - I think most of those people are driving Subarus anyhow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen a few. At first I thought it was just something different. After having tripped over them a couple of times, I now accidentally kick them out

Good job! EV's should only be for suburban people that can afford to have a garage or carport.

I would start with: if you get an EV, you need to figure out a way to charge it without obstructing the sidewalk.

Yup. In DC, many, many people have parking spots and garages. buying an EV if you only have street parking seems like a real lack of forethought. Especially because most EVs are not particularly cheap and rarely available used, so the population we're talking about are not exactly hurting for cash.

Now, if EVs were more accessible to the broader population, I'd support installing charging stations on curbs to accommodate them. But as it currently stands, this would just be a convincing for people who are already extremely privileged. They can figure it out.

If the city had more widely available fast charging stations, this would be easier to pull off as a policy. But by effectively proposing that only people with off street parking can get EVs, you’re going to ensure that the underlying situation you identify — they’re mostly owned by rich people — continues. (You actually can find used Nissan Leafs or Chevy Bolts pretty easily, and they cost around $20,000 — not super cheap, obviously, but hardly out of reach for everyone.) The solution to EV cables blocking sidewalks is better EV infrastructure, not fewer EVs.

Unless you are willing to put up the capital to invest in charging stations in an area with extremely high real estate prices then I suggest what you are proposing is not realistic. Just as it is not the governments responsibility to build gas stations, it is not the gocernments responsibility to build EV infrastructure. However, it is the governments job to protect residents from nuisance on public right of ways. If you want better charging infrastructure, you would be better served petitioning Tesla or property developers. In the mean time people need to keep their cords off the sidewalk.

It's not the government's responsibility to provide charging stations, true, but it could get involved in incentivizing them, which it already does do for private owners. (I'll get a tax credit for the charging setup I installed for my EV, which we park in our driveway.) Or it could require private developers to put them in if they want permission to build. Electrify America, which is a Volkswagen spinoff, put chargers in the Walmart parking lot on Georgia Avenue -- that's the kind of thing that would help make it feasible to own an EV (which benefits all of us who breathe, since they don't emit anything while driving) without obstructing sidewalks (which also benefits us all, for obvious reasons).

I don’t care what your excuses are. Stop making a nuisance for everyone else, especially the elderly and disabled.

I literally said I park and charge my EV in my driveway, which means it’s only a nuisance for me and my family, and also that the city should work to make it easier for people to charge without needing to run cables across the sidewalk. What excuses are you talking about?

Let me rephrase, you are making excuses for other peoples nuisance. Better?

No, you're still wrong. I’m suggesting that the city should make it easier for other people to charge their cars without being a nuisance, because electric cars are better for everyone than gas cars, and if people who don’t have a driveway or private parking spot can charge without interfering with the sidewalk, then it’d be easier for everyone.

The city is not making it harder and has no obligation to make it easier to effectively award people designated parking spaces with curbside charging stations in front of their homes. Giving away public right of way to private interests is really poor policy, no matter why you think its important.

I didn't say anything about giving people designated parking spaces, I said make it easier for people to charge without being a nuisance. What I suggested is that the city should require developers to include charging infrastructure in new projects and/or give an incentive to private businesses to put in fast-charging stations in existing parking lots. That way, people could charge EVs regardless of where they park them. No public right-of-way involved. Those of us with private parking spots could also make our charging stations available to the public -- someone could park in my driveway overnight and charge their car, for instance -- I believe it's possible to set things up so people could pay charging station owners for that through an app. But it'd be better if existing space that's already turned over to cars, like parking lots, also had EV charging.