What is “consulting” in the business world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are spreadsheet monkeys typically crunching numbers in excel so mid-level managers and VPs can manipulate data in order for senior level principals to create expert reports and testify that huge corporations that knowingly polluted water sources, inflated consumer pharmaceutical costs by 900% for end users, or ripped off a small entrepreneur’s patents win lawsuits brought against them. It is largely soulless, mind boggling tedious and boring work. You’ll work for geeky PhD economists who exact revenge from their school day bullying on anyone of a lower rank, and scumbag clients who don’t care how many people have died due to their vehicles’ defective airbags so long as you can determine through leaked patient records that there were other underlying conditions (asthma, eczema) that lead to their death other than fiery car crashes). You’ll get paid decently (salary, no OT though 25 to 30% of your hours will be strict OT) but you’ll work nights. You’ll work weekends. You’ll work during the hour between your mom’s funeral and the wake. You’ll work on your wedding day and during 30% of your honeymoon. Ask me how I know.

Failed author/stand up comic alert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are spreadsheet monkeys typically crunching numbers in excel so mid-level managers and VPs can manipulate data in order for senior level principals to create expert reports and testify that huge corporations that knowingly polluted water sources, inflated consumer pharmaceutical costs by 900% for end users, or ripped off a small entrepreneur’s patents win lawsuits brought against them. It is largely soulless, mind boggling tedious and boring work. You’ll work for geeky PhD economists who exact revenge from their school day bullying on anyone of a lower rank, and scumbag clients who don’t care how many people have died due to their vehicles’ defective airbags so long as you can determine through leaked patient records that there were other underlying conditions (asthma, eczema) that lead to their death other than fiery car crashes). You’ll get paid decently (salary, no OT though 25 to 30% of your hours will be strict OT) but you’ll work nights. You’ll work weekends. You’ll work during the hour between your mom’s funeral and the wake. You’ll work on your wedding day and during 30% of your honeymoon. Ask me how I know.

Agree while not out of the question, not likely. Consulting firms are mostly looking forward. What can we do now that we can't pollute the water? Past stuff like this goes to law firms -- what water? Pay at top consulting firms is quite good out of college 100k. There is no OT but bonus.

Most consulting firms are hired directly by law firms representing clients, most often on the defense side, and in many many cases the underlying clients’ wrongdoing is expected by the law firm to be covered up and explained away through any means possible of data manipulation. Its how the world works so no major surprise. I work for a top 10 economic consulting firm and completely agree with the “spreadsheet monkey” PP response. The money is very good though.

The type of consulting we are talking about are not people hired by law firms. You are thinking of litigation consulting firms -- FTI, Charles River. This thread has been business consulting firms McKinsey, Bain. Not the same firms; not the same work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s bullshitting for money.

+1 the jargon and new process changes like agile are the bane of my corporate existence. I'm 50, and every few years there's some new jargon and process, but none of it is earth shattering. Most of it is common sense, and a few are just pointless BS to make some MBA grad feel like they are contributing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New grads do some excel (or sometimes mores sophisticated data tool) analysis, a lot of powerpoint, and any grunt work that needs to be done. The new grads fancy themselves much smarter than the clients and able to learn about any industry in a handful of days and produce useful insights. I think that issilly. The firms do provide some in house training, too, but it is nothing special. It is mostly about how to sound smart and polished. They also have senior partners to help guide and mentor junior staff.

Companies hire these firms for a variety of reasons. The biggest advantage for a company is that they get an outsider perspective and a team of competent people to focus on a specific problem or issue that you really just can't solve from the "inside". The corporate sponsor, who is some sort of high ranking person in the company, gets some reputable firm to deliver messages or plans. Some (usually more lower tier) firms are more used for staff augmentation, like a high price temp agency with high quality employees. Top grads from top schools may never accept a job at Company X, but Company X can hire firm Y, and then use those employees in positions that they struggle to fill.

Thank you for the detailed answer! So what kind of problems are they typically being brought in to solve? I assume these aren’t simple accounting/number crunching sorts of things. Obviously there’s huge money in the work

NP, but typically they’re brought in for thorny problems that need a fall guy. Let’s say the CEO wants to cut costs and knows that layoffs will be unpopular. Well, drop some money on a big consulting firm (say, McKinsey) and blame everything on them! “Well, the McKinsey data showed that this is the beat way forward ... don’t blame me! They’re all smart and unbiased Harvard grads!”

On the staff aug side, PP nailed it. Bring in tons of young people who’ll do anything you ask out of an overachievement rooted in insecurity. They’ll stay late, respond to emails at all hours, and are very eager to please. You won’t find temps like that with a regular temp agency AND they’ll put up with more of your crap than needed.

Yes, I've been told that consultants often prescribe layoffs and other cost-saving measures.

or outsourcing.

The 22 yr old basically BSed their way through this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bullshitting for money.

+1 the jargon and new process changes like agile are the bane of my corporate existence. I'm 50, and every few years there's some new jargon and process, but none of it is earth shattering. Most of it is common sense, and a few are just pointless BS to make some MBA grad feel like they are contributing.

+2

I'm in my 20s and already over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bullshitting for money.

+1 the jargon and new process changes like agile are the bane of my corporate existence. I'm 50, and every few years there's some new jargon and process, but none of it is earth shattering. Most of it is common sense, and a few are just pointless BS to make some MBA grad feel like they are contributing.

There’s always at least one person who wisely shakes their head and says “that’s basically what we’re doing today” or “it’s common sense” after seeing a recommendation. Is it? Maybe. Is that anything like what they’ve been doing? No. Their current model for whatever is a closely held nightmare that no one but Bill on the 3rd floor actually understands. It makes silly assumptions that no one realizes are in there and produces crappy results most years and catastrophically bad results in off years. But, yeah, that new model we designed, with a 1000 market scenarios and tunable risk tolerances, is totally like the gut-feel-plus-how-we’ve-always-done-it approach you had.

Consulting is imperfect and sometimes exactly what you’re describing, but show me a big organization and I can find something central to their business that is a total cludge and that no senior exec realizes is the basis for some huge decisions they’ve made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bullshitting for money.

+1 the jargon and new process changes like agile are the bane of my corporate existence. I'm 50, and every few years there's some new jargon and process, but none of it is earth shattering. Most of it is common sense, and a few are just pointless BS to make some MBA grad feel like they are contributing.

There’s always at least one person who wisely shakes their head and says “that’s basically what we’re doing today” or “it’s common sense” after seeing a recommendation. Is it? Maybe. Is that anything like what they’ve been doing? No. Their current model for whatever is a closely held nightmare that no one but Bill on the 3rd floor actually understands. It makes silly assumptions that no one realizes are in there and produces crappy results most years and catastrophically bad results in off years. But, yeah, that new model we designed, with a 1000 market scenarios and tunable risk tolerances, is totally like the gut-feel-plus-how-we’ve-always-done-it approach you had.

Consulting is imperfect and sometimes exactly what you’re describing, but show me a big organization and I can find something central to their business that is a total cludge and that no senior exec realizes is the basis for some huge decisions they’ve made.

I agree with this. I hated the consulting world, but the PP is a bit off as well. In my experience, whatever the hell Bill on the third floor and Mr. "Common Sense" are saying generally caused billions and billions of dollars in fines and a tremendous amount of government scrutiny. No way would the people who caused that problem be able to finagle themselves out of it. Maybe if you're just looking for incremental improvements? In my consulting life it was putting out MAJOR fires where it was abundantly clear that the original boots on the ground were either the source of the problem or would be utterly incapable of fixing the mess. And no, it's not the 22 year olds who run that show, but good consulting firms have expertise you might not find otherwise. (And if they're really great, you can hire them in house!)

[Anonymous]

Having worked for several companies that have employed the services of consultants, I would say that the result has mostly been that the consultant comes in, charges substantial fees to give obvious advice, then leaves without taking any responsibility for the implementation of said obvious advice. Results have generally been unimpressive, although this is due, at least in part, to poor implementation on the part of my employers.

I haven't seen a consultant do anything that the company couldn't do just as well (and less expensively) on its own. As a result, I have a pretty low opinion of the consulting industry in general.

[Anonymous]

Have you seen office space? It’s political cover for unpopular opinions 99% of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of good answers in this thread, except the post directly above, which while it has a kernel of truth behind it, is pushing it.

I spent 5 years in consulting, and have now been client-side for 12, and often hire consultants. I started as your typical 22 y/o out of a H/P/Y, and really enjoyed my time. You generally work with and for smart people, do interesting work, and make valuable contacts. Downsides are the hours (although not nearly as bad as IB) and the travel.

Examples of projects I worked on:

- A competitive benchmark of small business banks.
- A bundling analysis for several financial services clients.
- An opportunity assessment for a new B2B product in financial services.
- Cost cutting opportunities in a company’s customer service department.
- Creating a new strategic direction (ie vision, mission, purpose) for a travel company.
- An evaluation of an existing digital JV between two massive companies that wasn’t going well.
- An evaluation of whether a company should divest of a profitable business line that wasn’t growing no matter what they did with it.

How do you know about all this at 22?
Is this mostly a research job?

How do anyone do anything at age 22 or anything for that matter?

Leverage prior examples, industry research reports, brainstorming with your team, seek guidance from SME within the company.

They don't. They'll use Google with wild abandon, rewrite senior colleague's experiences in their own words, or just wing it.

This. The quality of work is appalling, and it's totally unfair (malpractice?) to expect 22 year olds with zero experience to be able to do something this complex that will hit the mark. I've been at a consulting firm for a few years now after 20 years in industry and am horrified at the quality of some of the work.

But the company would rather use a super low-cost resource than a SME with a clue so they can maximize profit. The smart 22 year olds realize how flawed the model is and get out. The ambitious ones who drank the KoolAid and are chasing Partner stay. And the system perpetuates itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bullshitting for money.

+1 the jargon and new process changes like agile are the bane of my corporate existence. I'm 50, and every few years there's some new jargon and process, but none of it is earth shattering. Most of it is common sense, and a few are just pointless BS to make some MBA grad feel like they are contributing.

There’s always at least one person who wisely shakes their head and says “that’s basically what we’re doing today” or “it’s common sense” after seeing a recommendation. Is it? Maybe. Is that anything like what they’ve been doing? No. Their current model for whatever is a closely held nightmare that no one but Bill on the 3rd floor actually understands. It makes silly assumptions that no one realizes are in there and produces crappy results most years and catastrophically bad results in off years. But, yeah, that new model we designed, with a 1000 market scenarios and tunable risk tolerances, is totally like the gut-feel-plus-how-we’ve-always-done-it approach you had.

Consulting is imperfect and sometimes exactly what you’re describing, but show me a big organization and I can find something central to their business that is a total cludge and that no senior exec realizes is the basis for some huge decisions they’ve made.

I agree with this. I hated the consulting world, but the PP is a bit off as well. In my experience, whatever the hell Bill on the third floor and Mr. "Common Sense" are saying generally caused billions and billions of dollars in fines and a tremendous amount of government scrutiny. No way would the people who caused that problem be able to finagle themselves out of it. Maybe if you're just looking for incremental improvements? In my consulting life it was putting out MAJOR fires where it was abundantly clear that the original boots on the ground were either the source of the problem or would be utterly incapable of fixing the mess. And no, it's not the 22 year olds who run that show, but good consulting firms have expertise you might not find otherwise. (And if they're really great, you can hire them in house!)

LOL.. ok, whatever makes you feel better.

Just read the posts on this thread. No one is buying your BS.

Most of the consultants I have come across are mediocre, at best. The really good ones go off on their own because they can.

In my close to 30 years of working, most of the issues are caused by either upper management or the consultants who did a p1ss poor job of running a project.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s bullshitting for money.

"Those who can't do, consult."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having worked for several companies that have employed the services of consultants, I would say that the result has mostly been that the consultant comes in, charges substantial fees to give obvious advice, then leaves without taking any responsibility for the implementation of said obvious advice. Results have generally been unimpressive, although this is due, at least in part, to poor implementation on the part of my employers.

I haven't seen a consultant do anything that the company couldn't do just as well (and less expensively) on its own. As a result, I have a pretty low opinion of the consulting industry in general.

This is a common theme. When I was in consulting we'd all kind of give each other "the look" during client meetings when the first part of the project was winding up and implementation planning and execution was discussed. No one EVER wanted to buy that work. It was usually the tipping point where things went off the rails.

[Anonymous]

So, seriously, why do consulting firms stay in business? This idea that they make obvious recs that the staff could have gotten to on their own for less money is fascinating. What didn’t the staff do that? Why doesn’t your exec team believe in you? I get the “politics cover for layoffs” or doing what the leader already wanted to do, but how can it be that people idiotically pay through the nose for consulting over and over again if it’s so terrible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, seriously, why do consulting firms stay in business? This idea that they make obvious recs that the staff could have gotten to on their own for less money is fascinating. What didn’t the staff do that? Why doesn’t your exec team believe in you? I get the “politics cover for layoffs” or doing what the leader already wanted to do, but how can it be that people idiotically pay through the nose for consulting over and over again if it’s so terrible?

Politics, as you said. Shifting blame. Need to use a certain amount of money by year-end to get the same budget next year (this is for federal “consulting”/contracting, which is a whole racket in and of itself). Consulting firms’ ideas also have potential to rake in insane amounts of money — for instance, we have McKinsey to thank for developing the sales strategy for Purdue’s OxyContin pills. McKinsey recently settled in court to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars for their role in the opioid crisis.

Most of the time, consulting firms are hired to cover the CEO’s ass. Sometimes, they’ll help a company take in beaucoup bucks are the expense of ethics. On the federal side, you’re paying for temps (really, warm bodies) with better skills that you can fire as you please.