APS: gifted identification

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate that parents can refer their kids.

Me too. And as early as kindergarten. Tracking that early is dumb. Also- APS fills spots young so when the truly gifted emerge late in elementary- spots are already filled with those that lobbied.

Our kid tests in the top 1% and we got the notice he was gifted in everything at end of 8th. Yeah, no sh@t. His Cogats, 600 SOLs, Nnats, etc all showed this.

He’s now thriving and currently in #1 in his class at a top private HS.

OMG-- YES! I thought this was just happening in our North Arlington ES. So many parents "self-referred" in K and 1st, before the NNAT is even offered. Their kids got spots and other kids then did not, even when scoring high enough on the NNAT in 2nd to be formally referred for services in 3rd grade. I've got one kid tagged in all four subjects, and the other kid tagged in nothing, and I can tell you as their parent that there is not a lot of difference in their raw intelligence. I think there are secret quotas at play here, and a higher # of parents who self-referred in K and 1 in my non-tagged child's class. I'm glad they are moving the NNAT down to 1st grade post-pandemic, because maybe that will stop the self-referral madness.

I wonder if this is at our ES where there are 50-60%+ (not kidding) kids identified as gifted.

No school has that many kids identified.

+1 There is a document that states how many kids are identified, though I can't remember what it's called

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate that parents can refer their kids.

Me too. And as early as kindergarten. Tracking that early is dumb. Also- APS fills spots young so when the truly gifted emerge late in elementary- spots are already filled with those that lobbied.

Our kid tests in the top 1% and we got the notice he was gifted in everything at end of 8th. Yeah, no sh@t. His Cogats, 600 SOLs, Nnats, etc all showed this.

He’s now thriving and currently in #1 in his class at a top private HS.

OMG-- YES! I thought this was just happening in our North Arlington ES. So many parents "self-referred" in K and 1st, before the NNAT is even offered. Their kids got spots and other kids then did not, even when scoring high enough on the NNAT in 2nd to be formally referred for services in 3rd grade. I've got one kid tagged in all four subjects, and the other kid tagged in nothing, and I can tell you as their parent that there is not a lot of difference in their raw intelligence. I think there are secret quotas at play here, and a higher # of parents who self-referred in K and 1 in my non-tagged child's class. I'm glad they are moving the NNAT down to 1st grade post-pandemic, because maybe that will stop the self-referral madness.

I wonder if this is at our ES where there are 50-60%+ (not kidding) kids identified as gifted.

No school has that many kids identified.

+1 There is a document that states how many kids are identified, though I can't remember what it's called

The Gifted Services Advisory Committee presents a report every year.

[Anonymous]

How do you know if your kid has been ID as gifted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does clusters work in APS?

My 1st grader just switched to a new teacher since school reopened, so the new teacher barely knows her. Since they are not screening 1st grade this year, shall we do the parent referral? If there aren't much benefit, then I'd rather not bother.

Kids receiving gifted services are required to be grouped with at least 4 other similarly ID’d kids in a class. There are 4 academic areas, and a kid can be ID’d in 1-4 of those areas. A kid receiving just math services, for example, would be grouped with at least 4 other kids receiving math services. A kid receiving services in all academic areas would be grouped with at least 4 others in each area, but those kids don’t always fully overlap.

I wouldn’t bother referring in 1st grade. I would wait for the screeners.

Agree – early in elementary, they often can’t accommodate the groupings because there aren’t enough kids identified. DC’s teacher told us in 2nd that there were only 2 kids IDed in all 4 academic areas in the grade, but the 2nd grade NNAT would yield referrals for the 3rd grade groupings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you know if your kid has been ID as gifted?

A letter comes home with a questionnaire for your input when the school wants to start the process of identification with your kid. If you give permission the school goes through the process and eventually there’s a committee meeting to make the final determination. If they decide your kid qualifies, they notify you again and I think you are required to give a second permission to formally receive services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate that parents can refer their kids.

Me too. And as early as kindergarten. Tracking that early is dumb. Also- APS fills spots young so when the truly gifted emerge late in elementary- spots are already filled with those that lobbied.

Our kid tests in the top 1% and we got the notice he was gifted in everything at end of 8th. Yeah, no sh@t. His Cogats, 600 SOLs, Nnats, etc all showed this.

He’s now thriving and currently in #1 in his class at a top private HS.

OMG-- YES! I thought this was just happening in our North Arlington ES. So many parents "self-referred" in K and 1st, before the NNAT is even offered. Their kids got spots and other kids then did not, even when scoring high enough on the NNAT in 2nd to be formally referred for services in 3rd grade. I've got one kid tagged in all four subjects, and the other kid tagged in nothing, and I can tell you as their parent that there is not a lot of difference in their raw intelligence. I think there are secret quotas at play here, and a higher # of parents who self-referred in K and 1 in my non-tagged child's class. I'm glad they are moving the NNAT down to 1st grade post-pandemic, because maybe that will stop the self-referral madness.

I had no idea that there was a limit to kids being identified. Mine was ID'd early (not parent referral) and the form is ridiculous for kids that young (no idea if the form is different for school vs parent initiated). I don't know how a parent could answer most of the questions as a self-referral in K without thinking it's a bit ridiculous. There is literally a question about what your child's intellectual hobbies are.

There isn’t a limit.

There was at our school because the pullout with the GT teacher could only have X # of kids.

[Anonymous]

Our first was teacher identified several times in elementary but was not given the designation until his last day of 5th grade. No idea- except it was at a school with a number cap for working with the GT teacher and we were the least pushy parents and didn’t self-select in K like the rest. Ironically, our younger child was given full designation early and of the two, while very smart, not what I consider gifted—just very smart.

My older one was required to be identified after the CogaT scores and they still didn’t do it. However, he was put in the classes with those designated so I didn’t push. There definitely was a clique of GT parents that dropped the name of the GT teacher in every single conversation. Yes- we know your kid is GT honeys—you tell us every chance you get. As a result, they wrongly assumed other kids weren’t intelligent like their snowflakes.

It evens out. My son in his friend both were accepted into top private HS and both in the top 3 of their classes. I love it because it is solely merit based. You only get into Honors track through tests administered by the school—not your pushy parents and the school does t want to hear from parents. They teach complete independence fro helicopter-academically hovering parents.

Several of those very very gifted kids are struggling now. Parents telling me grades are low. There was a lot of coddling and parents doing their projects and micromanaging in elementary so I’m not surprised it turned out that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our first was teacher identified several times in elementary but was not given the designation until his last day of 5th grade. No idea- except it was at a school with a number cap for working with the GT teacher and we were the least pushy parents and didn’t self-select in K like the rest. Ironically, our younger child was given full designation early and of the two, while very smart, not what I consider gifted—just very smart.

My older one was required to be identified after the CogaT scores and they still didn’t do it. However, he was put in the classes with those designated so I didn’t push. There definitely was a clique of GT parents that dropped the name of the GT teacher in every single conversation. Yes- we know your kid is GT honeys—you tell us every chance you get. As a result, they wrongly assumed other kids weren’t intelligent like their snowflakes.

It evens out. My son in his friend both were accepted into top private HS and both in the top 3 of their classes. I love it because it is solely merit based. You only get into Honors track through tests administered by the school—not your pushy parents and the school does t want to hear from parents. They teach complete independence fro helicopter-academically hovering parents.

Several of those very very gifted kids are struggling now. Parents telling me grades are low. There was a lot of coddling and parents doing their projects and micromanaging in elementary so I’m not surprised it turned out that way.

This is so very weird to me. It's not something I ever discuss with anyone really. My kid doesn't know they're identified. Maybe by late elementary they'll have figured it out, but for now they don't even know that the RTG is specifically for that. And honestly I'm more interested in their social emotional development than whether or not their "giftedness" is being served.

[Anonymous]

As someone who was identified as gifted in elementary school and is now an adult - I can tell you it made no difference in the life paths of anyone I know. Some of the extra stuff was fun but it definitely doesn’t actually matter. Some of the kids I knew who were identified early were the pushy parent variety. By the time they reached high school they weren’t even in the highest level offered in all classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who was identified as gifted in elementary school and is now an adult - I can tell you it made no difference in the life paths of anyone I know. Some of the extra stuff was fun but it definitely doesn’t actually matter. Some of the kids I knew who were identified early were the pushy parent variety. By the time they reached high school they weren’t even in the highest level offered in all classes.

There is no way to know what alternate life paths would have looked like.

Keeping kids engaged in school is a good thing for the individual, and society. Yes, it matters, whether the individual ends up taking a path you envision for gifted students or not.

[Anonymous]

I would not self refer in K, but don’t rule it out later on if you think it would help your kid, and don’t just rely on a single test. Also, if you kid is referred, keep following up if you don’t hear back.
We were told at the end of 1st that our kid was on the school’s radar for gifted, referred at the beginning of 2nd, and the identification process ended the last week of 2nd. Started receiving services in 3rd.

Our school definitely had no limit on “spots that got filled.” I’ve never heard of that in APS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate that parents can refer their kids.

Me too. And as early as kindergarten. Tracking that early is dumb. Also- APS fills spots young so when the truly gifted emerge late in elementary- spots are already filled with those that lobbied.

Our kid tests in the top 1% and we got the notice he was gifted in everything at end of 8th. Yeah, no sh@t. His Cogats, 600 SOLs, Nnats, etc all showed this.

He’s now thriving and currently in #1 in his class at a top private HS.

OMG-- YES! I thought this was just happening in our North Arlington ES. So many parents "self-referred" in K and 1st, before the NNAT is even offered. Their kids got spots and other kids then did not, even when scoring high enough on the NNAT in 2nd to be formally referred for services in 3rd grade. I've got one kid tagged in all four subjects, and the other kid tagged in nothing, and I can tell you as their parent that there is not a lot of difference in their raw intelligence. I think there are secret quotas at play here, and a higher # of parents who self-referred in K and 1 in my non-tagged child's class. I'm glad they are moving the NNAT down to 1st grade post-pandemic, because maybe that will stop the self-referral madness.

I wonder if this is at our ES where there are 50-60%+ (not kidding) kids identified as gifted.

No school has that many kids identified.

+1 There is a document that states how many kids are identified, though I can't remember what it's called

That percentage shocked me when I was told to me by administrator at the school. Mostly parent referrals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate that parents can refer their kids.

Me too. And as early as kindergarten. Tracking that early is dumb. Also- APS fills spots young so when the truly gifted emerge late in elementary- spots are already filled with those that lobbied.

Our kid tests in the top 1% and we got the notice he was gifted in everything at end of 8th. Yeah, no sh@t. His Cogats, 600 SOLs, Nnats, etc all showed this.

He’s now thriving and currently in #1 in his class at a top private HS.

OMG-- YES! I thought this was just happening in our North Arlington ES. So many parents "self-referred" in K and 1st, before the NNAT is even offered. Their kids got spots and other kids then did not, even when scoring high enough on the NNAT in 2nd to be formally referred for services in 3rd grade. I've got one kid tagged in all four subjects, and the other kid tagged in nothing, and I can tell you as their parent that there is not a lot of difference in their raw intelligence. I think there are secret quotas at play here, and a higher # of parents who self-referred in K and 1 in my non-tagged child's class. I'm glad they are moving the NNAT down to 1st grade post-pandemic, because maybe that will stop the self-referral madness.

I wonder if this is at our ES where there are 50-60%+ (not kidding) kids identified as gifted.

No school has that many kids identified.

+1 There is a document that states how many kids are identified, though I can't remember what it's called

That percentage shocked me when I was told to me by administrator at the school. Mostly parent referrals.

No school has more than 20% across the board. Most schools have a higher percentage of kids identified by 5th grade, but no school totals more than 20%.

[Anonymous]

You can figure out the gifted percentages at each school from the APS budget proposal. There are school profiles in the back of that document. What really stands out is how inconsistent the percentages are, even across schools with similar parent demographics. For example, Discovery only has 17% tagged, while Nottingham is 21% and Tuckahoe is 23%. Another set of schools with comparable demographics are Ashlawn/Glebe/McKinley, where Ashlawn has 16% tagged, McKinley has 19% tagged, and Glebe has 25% tagged. (In fact, Glebe Elementary has consistently had the highest percentage of kids tagged of all the elementary schools for as long as I can remember.)

My sense from talking to parents at other schools is that some principals really keep down the number of kids tagged before the Cogat is given in 4th grade, while others are more generous about allowing self-referrals in K and 1st even before the NNAT is given in 2nd grade. As someone said above, once the Cogat is given in 4th grade, there ends up being a lot more kids tagged. I would not be surprised if some elementary schools have 50% of their 5th grade class tagged at GT in at least one subject, even if the overall school-wide percentages are only around 20%. There are a lot of smart kids who get missed for identification pre-Cogat because they just have more laid back personalities (or more laid back parents) and are therefore viewed as not needing more challenging work. I suspect this is why APS is moving to push the Cogat down to 3rd grade now. By the time the 4th graders take the Cogat and are formally identified, elementary school is almost over.

[Anonymous]

We were in a north Arlington neighborhood school for K and our child was tagged gifted towards the end of K. We did not self refer. The math specialist at the school was into providing logic games recommendations for holiday gifts and not actually providing work at the appropriate level for our kid (we kept being told "everyone else will catch up". Lol, didn't happen.) We had them evaluated externally and we do extra math outside APS. Cheaper than a full private school option.