Why no Involuntary Commitment in DC?

[Anonymous]

People get to choose to do things that are not objectively the best for them in this society, and once you are on that slope it isn’t easy to draw a defensible line to prevent sliding down it. (To be clear: I don’t think we should get off that slope. However, I also think OP doesn’t have a lot of experience with mental health.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't just indefinitely cage a person. That would be an abuse of involuntary commitment.

I don't think of mental health facilities as cages, and you are correct --it is very difficult to commit someone in this country against their will. However, if people were committed and treated likely they would not die in this horrible manner. If they stop taking medication, re commit them and treat them again.

But horrible things have also happened in mental health facilities.

Here's a review that shows that according to various studies, 7 - 8 % of inpatient psychiatric patients experience sexual assault, and that's in an era of brief hospitalizations. The longer term hospitalizations you seem to be proposing would send that number up.

https://ps.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ps.202000038

Do you think these people aren’t sexually assaulted under bridges? At least in institutions these people would get clean clothes and bedding, regular meals, counseling, medication, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People get to choose to do things that are not objectively the best for them in this society, and once you are on that slope it isn’t easy to draw a defensible line to prevent sliding down it. (To be clear: I don’t think we should get off that slope. However, I also think OP doesn’t have a lot of experience with mental health.)

I know that one of my moms friends from a highly regarded college was murdered by Union Station after they closed the institutions and familys couldnt involunarily commit. She descended jnto madness and homelessness and obviously vulnerability on the streets.this story repeats every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People get to choose to do things that are not objectively the best for them in this society, and once you are on that slope it isn’t easy to draw a defensible line to prevent sliding down it. (To be clear: I don’t think we should get off that slope. However, I also think OP doesn’t have a lot of experience with mental health.)

I know that one of my moms friends from a highly regarded college was murdered by Union Station after they closed the institutions and familys couldnt involunarily commit. She descended jnto madness and homelessness and obviously vulnerability on the streets.this story repeats every day.

I think the issue is much more with the people who don’t attend “highly regarded colleges” who have even fewer options. Certainly rounding up everyone living in the streets around Union Station is a solution to a problem, but it creates other problems and is also not the right way to handle the situation.

In DC, the issue is generationally poverty, community violence, addiction, and a failing education system. I was going to say that access to employment is also an issue, but frankly I think if we could fix issues related to those other things, employment opportunities would be more widely available. But in DC specifically, the combination of insane cost of living and generational poverty have made it extremely difficult for anyone to break out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes it started with closing the institutions.
Yes there is not enough funding. Mental health services for people whose families are taking care of them is a separate topic imo - there needs to be reforms but it’s just a different area of concern.
People on the streets need to be put into housing on cheaper land with round the clock medical care. It’s ok if they only have a bed and not a room, let alone a house to themselves. Someone needs to monitor their medications. They should not be allowed to camp out on city streets.

Your suggestion is to target the end point and not the crises and problems that get people to that end point. Also, you are talking about taking away free will. At least some people on the streets are choosing their fate. Not everyone wants housing and medical care and even less what institutional living. If that were the case, people would be going to homeless shelters instead of staying on the streets.

I don't think that either suggestion is the answer to the problem. If you intervene at an earlier point, then maybe you can avoid reaching the point where someone ends up on the streets.

And, yeah, I am taking care of my child. But, I'm going to die and the street is a very real possibility. And, it wouldn't be the first time because even though we are willing to do everything we can, people have free will.

I'm sorry, but the vast majority of the populace would not be allowed to defecate on the sidewalk, set up a "house" with furniture under a bridge, etc. because it is their "desire/free will" to squat in front of someone else's business. It is not a choice that people have when they live in a community. So, given that it is unacceptable to live on the streets, the homeless person has a much narrower set of choices. Somehow our society has become so obsessed with the rights of the "minority" in every situation that we totally disregard the rights of everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People get to choose to do things that are not objectively the best for them in this society, and once you are on that slope it isn’t easy to draw a defensible line to prevent sliding down it. (To be clear: I don’t think we should get off that slope. However, I also think OP doesn’t have a lot of experience with mental health.)

I know that one of my moms friends from a highly regarded college was murdered by Union Station after they closed the institutions and familys couldnt involunarily commit. She descended jnto madness and homelessness and obviously vulnerability on the streets.this story repeats every day.

I think the issue is much more with the people who don’t attend “highly regarded colleges” who have even fewer options. Certainly rounding up everyone living in the streets around Union Station is a solution to a problem, but it creates other problems and is also not the right way to handle the situation.

In DC, the issue is generationally poverty, community violence, addiction, and a failing education system. I was going to say that access to employment is also an issue, but frankly I think if we could fix issues related to those other things, employment opportunities would be more widely available. But in DC specifically, the combination of insane cost of living and generational poverty have made it extremely difficult for anyone to break out.

Pls dont fixate on "highly regarded-college"; its simply part of an anecdote, not meant to trigger you. Yes, there is a DC native issue that you describe, but we also know DC as the nations capitol attracts deluc3ional folks from across the country (not just referring to politicians and lobbyists). It's a magnet for people receiving or needing to transmit paranoid messages and suffering from other forms of mental illness or addiction. I'd be interested to see a breakdown of how many of DCs homeless that live on the street/refuse services are natives and how many are from elsewhere. One thing the city could do is stabilize them and try to get them back from whence they came.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People get to choose to do things that are not objectively the best for them in this society, and once you are on that slope it isn’t easy to draw a defensible line to prevent sliding down it. (To be clear: I don’t think we should get off that slope. However, I also think OP doesn’t have a lot of experience with mental health.)

I know that one of my moms friends from a highly regarded college was murdered by Union Station after they closed the institutions and familys couldnt involunarily commit. She descended jnto madness and homelessness and obviously vulnerability on the streets.this story repeats every day.

With respect, compared to being a seriously mentally ill person or having a close family member who is, this is not much experience with mental health. I’m glad for you for it—it’s objectively unpleasant to experience. But you need to accept that you are running your mouth about how to fix or change a situation the constituent parts of which you don’t really know much about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People get to choose to do things that are not objectively the best for them in this society, and once you are on that slope it isn’t easy to draw a defensible line to prevent sliding down it. (To be clear: I don’t think we should get off that slope. However, I also think OP doesn’t have a lot of experience with mental health.)

I know that one of my moms friends from a highly regarded college was murdered by Union Station after they closed the institutions and familys couldnt involunarily commit. She descended jnto madness and homelessness and obviously vulnerability on the streets.this story repeats every day.

With respect, compared to being a seriously mentally ill person or having a close family member who is, this is not much experience with mental health. I’m glad for you for it—it’s objectively unpleasant to experience. But you need to accept that you are running your mouth about how to fix or change a situation the constituent parts of which you don’t really know much about.

Um, OK-- can you articulate a solution for folks with acknowledged severe mental illness being left to perish under bridges? Since you know all the constituent parts and all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People get to choose to do things that are not objectively the best for them in this society, and once you are on that slope it isn’t easy to draw a defensible line to prevent sliding down it. (To be clear: I don’t think we should get off that slope. However, I also think OP doesn’t have a lot of experience with mental health.)

I know that one of my moms friends from a highly regarded college was murdered by Union Station after they closed the institutions and familys couldnt involunarily commit. She descended jnto madness and homelessness and obviously vulnerability on the streets.this story repeats every day.

With respect, compared to being a seriously mentally ill person or having a close family member who is, this is not much experience with mental health. I’m glad for you for it—it’s objectively unpleasant to experience. But you need to accept that you are running your mouth about how to fix or change a situation the constituent parts of which you don’t really know much about.

And by the way, that is not the 'scope' of my experience with mental illness. Every American family is touched by it. I also have extensive experience with social service delivery in DC. I was providing an anecdote about mentally ill homeless dying in the streets after hospitals were closed , which continues to this day. I don't pretend to have "all" the answers, so I am not sure why you keep making the point that I don't. I do think we can do better and that there needs to be more pressure on the people elected/paid to figure this out to move beyond the status quo. I'm interested in any ideas people have as to what that would look like--especially realistic ones.