I am still angry about losing the money in my dependent care FSA for 2019

[Anonymous]

Forgive me as I did not read the entire thread.

But at least for the FSA in which I participate, the rules allow you to get your money back (after taxes are then withheld). For example, if I contributed $1000 for 2019, but I ended up not having any qualifying expenses, I could get back approximately $600 (assuming 40 percent in taxes).

I had never known that in 20 years of participating, until it came up for me in 2020. It seem like our FSA did not really advertise it very well.

The public policy goal is to not allow people to evade taxes. I completely understand that. I just think that they need to be clear that you should be able to get your money back (after proper taxes are withheld).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t fudge it people. They do randomly call service providers.

No they don’t.

+1. And even if they did, there is zero chance your child care provider is going to provide attendance or billing records to some random third-party caller.

[Anonymous]

Or maybe Congress should come with an actual way to make health care, dependent care, and college more affordable that isn't just a tax cut to the upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Do you mean 2020 instead of 2019?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forgive me as I did not read the entire thread.

But at least for the FSA in which I participate, the rules allow you to get your money back (after taxes are then withheld). For example, if I contributed $1000 for 2019, but I ended up not having any qualifying expenses, I could get back approximately $600 (assuming 40 percent in taxes).

I had never known that in 20 years of participating, until it came up for me in 2020. It seem like our FSA did not really advertise it very well.

The public policy goal is to not allow people to evade taxes. I completely understand that. I just think that they need to be clear that you should be able to get your money back (after proper taxes are withheld).

That is not the norm and a violation of the tax code that established these plans. This may have been allowable as part of the bill a PP referenced that was signed on 12/31.

[Anonymous]

I'm very frustrated about this as well. We stopped our dependent care withholding as soon as we found out that was an option, but we still didn't spend everything we had withheld to that point. I think we lost over $1k, which is such a bummer. I've never heard of getting that money back - I thought it was forfeited if you don't use it.

I would not feel comfortable submitting a doctored receipt for care when we haven't sent our kids anywhere in person for child care since March.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have always hated the system where you have to guess (months before the year even starts) what your needs will be for the whole year and then you are penalized by losing the money if you guess wrong. I think that is extraordinarily unfair (especially when it comes to the health care FSA because there is no way to know in advance what your healthcare needs will be or how much they will cost!). I don't understand why Congress hasn't required that people get the money they deposited back! Thankfully, we were given the option to stop contributing at some point last year, but I still lost money. It's not going to break us, and we are luckier than many people since our jobs are safe, but it still irks me to no end.

FSAs are terrible policy. TERRIBLE POLICY that add complexity, uncertainty, and time costs to what should be easy.

Just give people a tax credit. Or a check. Don’t make them navigate the stupid FSA rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always hated the system where you have to guess (months before the year even starts) what your needs will be for the whole year and then you are penalized by losing the money if you guess wrong. I think that is extraordinarily unfair (especially when it comes to the health care FSA because there is no way to know in advance what your healthcare needs will be or how much they will cost!). I don't understand why Congress hasn't required that people get the money they deposited back! Thankfully, we were given the option to stop contributing at some point last year, but I still lost money. It's not going to break us, and we are luckier than many people since our jobs are safe, but it still irks me to no end.

Dude - Just make up expenses and submit them. I used to do them when we were contributing. Examples: Take last year's receipt (of a service provider you will likely be using again next year), change the date, scan and submit; get someone in your close family/friends to give you receipts for childcare. You can reimburse them for tax impact or tip them if they are younger teens.. Worse case scenario, expense gets denied.

Yeah, yeah.. I know ethics and all that BS. but this whole system is setup to milk people like us. The law could have simply allowed you to deduct this amount but no, they have to set up a convoluted scheme that required someone to adminster it and those people end up taking your money if you don't incur the expense or forget to submit expenses. Scam!

This is probably fraudulent but I’d absolutely agree with PP here regardless and submit a doctored receipt. This is ridiculous and it’s your money. So long as you file your taxes correctly (that is don’t claim the fake expenses there) your risk is very low.

Of course it is fraudulent! You have to weigh the risk against the benefit before doing this. What the Government has done to benefit vested interests here is diabolical. A minor fraud to get back what is yours is fully justified. Remember, the transaction is between you and the HSA administrator. Once their $10/hr clerk has processed your payment, they are not going to go and audit things. They can't afford it. If they do call the service provider and end up rejecting.. oh well! at least you tried..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always hated the system where you have to guess (months before the year even starts) what your needs will be for the whole year and then you are penalized by losing the money if you guess wrong. I think that is extraordinarily unfair (especially when it comes to the health care FSA because there is no way to know in advance what your healthcare needs will be or how much they will cost!). I don't understand why Congress hasn't required that people get the money they deposited back! Thankfully, we were given the option to stop contributing at some point last year, but I still lost money. It's not going to break us, and we are luckier than many people since our jobs are safe, but it still irks me to no end.

Dude - Just make up expenses and submit them. I used to do them when we were contributing. Examples: Take last year's receipt (of a service provider you will likely be using again next year), change the date, scan and submit; get someone in your close family/friends to give you receipts for childcare. You can reimburse them for tax impact or tip them if they are younger teens.. Worse case scenario, expense gets denied.

Yeah, yeah.. I know ethics and all that BS. but this whole system is setup to milk people like us. The law could have simply allowed you to deduct this amount but no, they have to set up a convoluted scheme that required someone to adminster it and those people end up taking your money if you don't incur the expense or forget to submit expenses. Scam!

This is probably fraudulent but I’d absolutely agree with PP here regardless and submit a doctored receipt. This is ridiculous and it’s your money. So long as you file your taxes correctly (that is don’t claim the fake expenses there) your risk is very low.

Of course it is fraudulent! You have to weigh the risk against the benefit before doing this. What the Government has done to benefit vested interests here is diabolical. A minor fraud to get back what is yours is fully justified. Remember, the transaction is between you and the HSA administrator. Once their $10/hr clerk has processed your payment, they are not going to go and audit things. They can't afford it. If they do call the service provider and end up rejecting.. oh well! at least you tried..

My provider called and account flagged, people at work found out. Nope I didn’t go to jail or anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean 2020 instead of 2019?

Yes, 2020. Thanks for the correction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always hated the system where you have to guess (months before the year even starts) what your needs will be for the whole year and then you are penalized by losing the money if you guess wrong. I think that is extraordinarily unfair (especially when it comes to the health care FSA because there is no way to know in advance what your healthcare needs will be or how much they will cost!). I don't understand why Congress hasn't required that people get the money they deposited back! Thankfully, we were given the option to stop contributing at some point last year, but I still lost money. It's not going to break us, and we are luckier than many people since our jobs are safe, but it still irks me to no end.

Dude - Just make up expenses and submit them. I used to do them when we were contributing. Examples: Take last year's receipt (of a service provider you will likely be using again next year), change the date, scan and submit; get someone in your close family/friends to give you receipts for childcare. You can reimburse them for tax impact or tip them if they are younger teens.. Worse case scenario, expense gets denied.

Yeah, yeah.. I know ethics and all that BS. but this whole system is setup to milk people like us. The law could have simply allowed you to deduct this amount but no, they have to set up a convoluted scheme that required someone to adminster it and those people end up taking your money if you don't incur the expense or forget to submit expenses. Scam!

This is probably fraudulent but I’d absolutely agree with PP here regardless and submit a doctored receipt. This is ridiculous and it’s your money. So long as you file your taxes correctly (that is don’t claim the fake expenses there) your risk is very low.

Of course it is fraudulent! You have to weigh the risk against the benefit before doing this. What the Government has done to benefit vested interests here is diabolical. A minor fraud to get back what is yours is fully justified. Remember, the transaction is between you and the HSA administrator. Once their $10/hr clerk has processed your payment, they are not going to go and audit things. They can't afford it. If they do call the service provider and end up rejecting.. oh well! at least you tried..

My provider called and account flagged, people at work found out. Nope I didn’t go to jail or anything.

That seems really unlikely. So you're saying your child care provider released information about your account to a third party without a signed release? If that happened I would seriously reconsider using that provider again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always hated the system where you have to guess (months before the year even starts) what your needs will be for the whole year and then you are penalized by losing the money if you guess wrong. I think that is extraordinarily unfair (especially when it comes to the health care FSA because there is no way to know in advance what your healthcare needs will be or how much they will cost!). I don't understand why Congress hasn't required that people get the money they deposited back! Thankfully, we were given the option to stop contributing at some point last year, but I still lost money. It's not going to break us, and we are luckier than many people since our jobs are safe, but it still irks me to no end.

Congress won't care because they have bigger concerns that UMC people who lost money in a tax advantaged account that most Americans don't have access to. The whole idea that the ability to use pre-tax money for certain services is based on an employer's whim is absurd, but the there are larger problems too address right now

Hmm yes, congress seems to have been focusing on UC people and ALL their tax advantages.

Congress doesn't care about the UMC. They're either throwing scraps to the poors or making tax cuts for the rich. Those in the $250k - $400k bracket are screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always hated the system where you have to guess (months before the year even starts) what your needs will be for the whole year and then you are penalized by losing the money if you guess wrong. I think that is extraordinarily unfair (especially when it comes to the health care FSA because there is no way to know in advance what your healthcare needs will be or how much they will cost!). I don't understand why Congress hasn't required that people get the money they deposited back! Thankfully, we were given the option to stop contributing at some point last year, but I still lost money. It's not going to break us, and we are luckier than many people since our jobs are safe, but it still irks me to no end.

Dude - Just make up expenses and submit them. I used to do them when we were contributing. Examples: Take last year's receipt (of a service provider you will likely be using again next year), change the date, scan and submit; get someone in your close family/friends to give you receipts for childcare. You can reimburse them for tax impact or tip them if they are younger teens.. Worse case scenario, expense gets denied.

Yeah, yeah.. I know ethics and all that BS. but this whole system is setup to milk people like us. The law could have simply allowed you to deduct this amount but no, they have to set up a convoluted scheme that required someone to adminster it and those people end up taking your money if you don't incur the expense or forget to submit expenses. Scam!

This is probably fraudulent but I’d absolutely agree with PP here regardless and submit a doctored receipt. This is ridiculous and it’s your money. So long as you file your taxes correctly (that is don’t claim the fake expenses there) your risk is very low.

Of course it is fraudulent! You have to weigh the risk against the benefit before doing this. What the Government has done to benefit vested interests here is diabolical. A minor fraud to get back what is yours is fully justified. Remember, the transaction is between you and the HSA administrator. Once their $10/hr clerk has processed your payment, they are not going to go and audit things. They can't afford it. If they do call the service provider and end up rejecting.. oh well! at least you tried..

My provider called and account flagged, people at work found out. Nope I didn’t go to jail or anything.

That seems really unlikely. So you're saying your child care provider released information about your account to a third party without a signed release? If that happened I would seriously reconsider using that provider again.

Right? Of the millions and millions of Dependent Care Accounts we just happen to have someone, here on DCUM, who had their provider called? What are the chances?

So PP who called in this situation? Your random Dep Care Account administrator with zero power to enforce the law? And your care provider did what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just saw this posted on the FSA FEDS site. Maybe there is still hope for you?


Consolidated Appropriations Act 2021
Dec 31, 2020


The new relief stimulus bill provides employers with options to minimize impact to employees related to flexible spending accounts (FSAs), including unused FSA funds. FSAFEDS will review these changes and share more information soon.

Has anyone heard more from FSAFeds? The rep I talked to today said she hasn't heard anything. Dependent care for 2020 is due March 15. Will FSAFeds be considering flexibility for 2020 or just moving forward with 2021? Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have always hated the system where you have to guess (months before the year even starts) what your needs will be for the whole year and then you are penalized by losing the money if you guess wrong. I think that is extraordinarily unfair (especially when it comes to the health care FSA because there is no way to know in advance what your healthcare needs will be or how much they will cost!). I don't understand why Congress hasn't required that people get the money they deposited back! Thankfully, we were given the option to stop contributing at some point last year, but I still lost money. It's not going to break us, and we are luckier than many people since our jobs are safe, but it still irks me to no end.

Dude - Just make up expenses and submit them. I used to do them when we were contributing. Examples: Take last year's receipt (of a service provider you will likely be using again next year), change the date, scan and submit; get someone in your close family/friends to give you receipts for childcare. You can reimburse them for tax impact or tip them if they are younger teens.. Worse case scenario, expense gets denied.

Yeah, yeah.. I know ethics and all that BS. but this whole system is setup to milk people like us. The law could have simply allowed you to deduct this amount but no, they have to set up a convoluted scheme that required someone to adminster it and those people end up taking your money if you don't incur the expense or forget to submit expenses. Scam!

This is probably fraudulent but I’d absolutely agree with PP here regardless and submit a doctored receipt. This is ridiculous and it’s your money. So long as you file your taxes correctly (that is don’t claim the fake expenses there) your risk is very low.

Probably?