Montgomery county parents - did we make a mistake?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tutor a boy in fourth grade who is in MD public school. He's learning to decode words with -tion, -sion endings. One word today was declaration. He tried to sound it out and said "declare -uh -shun" I helped him figure it out.

Then I prompted, "You know, like the Declaration ... of..." and waited for him to say..."Independence". Nothing. "When the 13 colonies said that they wanted to be free from Britain..." He had no clue what I was talking about. The big war we fought between Britain and the American colonies to gain our independence? He knew that -- World War...II!

When will the MSA test history??? He can't read, but he actually is familiar with some science terms and concepts because those are being tested now in fifthe grade. History, not so much.

That's amazing. My kids learn history because we teach it to them on spring break and during the summers when we go on vacation. Yes, we're one of those families who travel around visiting National and historic parks. They don't get much in school, that's true, even though we're in Washington DC where everything is free. G-d forbid the kids go on a field trip.

[Anonymous]

There are two Montgomery Counties. You've got an extremely wealthy area and an extremely poor one. What MoCo does do well is it holds the entire County to high standards and meets them. Does that mean the way MoCo operates is best for any particular individual student? No. Explore your local schools, understand your child's needs, and see if that's a good fit.

I do agree with a PP that it's worth looking at Howard County. It's a smaller county, and for whatever reason, they still give emphasis to non-core classes like social studies and art.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: "When the 13 colonies said that they wanted to be free from Britain..." He had no clue what I was talking about. The big war we fought between Britain and the American colonies to gain our independence? He knew that -- World War...II!

When will the MSA test history??? He can't read, but he actually is familiar with some science terms and concepts because those are being tested now in fifthe grade. History, not so much.

True story - I asked a classmate of mine in college - junior year - when the U.S. Civil War occurred - and she was off by more than 50 years! She was a product of private school education. I was a product of middling public school education. BUT, I had two years of U.S. History and and third year of AP U.S. History. You can darn well believe I know when all the various wars took place. That said, Our history classes didn't begin until 7-8th grade - and I believe that's appropriate. Social Studies in 4th and 5th grade is more about learning different cultures etc. - not about learning the various complicated lessons of our nation's history.

And if he CAN"T read, then he needs to master that before he can even begin to start to master history. Reading is Fundamental, as they say, and he can catch up in history later on down the line, but without Reading, he's not going anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Well, he can read -- just is a year below grade level. He should at least be exposed to the grade level social studies curriculum -- which I expect is non-existent. Because despite not being able to read well, he does have some science background knowledge, so he must be paying attention to science classes.

And I happen to think kids should learn American history in the early years. The Revolution, the Declaratoin of Independence, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. They don't need to master it for heaven's sake -- although I would expect 1776 to ring a bell by fourth grade. But they should at least be familiar with it!

I'm a teacher who taught for years in VA, before I had kids. I seldom saw a fourth grader who hadn't heard of the American Revolution and the Declaration of Independence. The only ones who didn't know their history were kids who spoke no English and arrived in 2nd or 3rd grade -- that's understandable -- but you can bet they caught up.

Not knowing the year the Civil War was fought, I can live with that, even in college. I did have a friend in high school who didn't know that the Revolution was a war fought between the American and the British thgouh -- she thought it was between the French and the British. (She wasn't a close friend.) That's pretty bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tutor a boy in fourth grade who is in MD public school. He's learning to decode words with -tion, -sion endings. One word today was declaration. He tried to sound it out and said "declare -uh -shun" I helped him figure it out.

Then I prompted, "You know, like the Declaration ... of..." and waited for him to say..."Independence". Nothing. "When the 13 colonies said that they wanted to be free from Britain..." He had no clue what I was talking about. The big war we fought between Britain and the American colonies to gain our independence? He knew that -- World War...II!

When will the MSA test history??? He can't read, but he actually is familiar with some science terms and concepts because those are being tested now in fifthe grade. History, not so much.

My kids in private did American History in 5th grade. They did some Indians and state capitals in earlier grades, but I don't think they would have been able to answer this question in 4th, either.

[Anonymous]

Your kids had never heard of the American Revolution and the Declaration of Independence by 4th grade???

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't have known about that stuff either if it hadn't been for Schoolhouse Rock in the 70s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a sample MSA Jumpstart test prep book, again fourth grade reading:


http://www.triumphlearning.com/parts/articles/101MD_sample.pdf

One week of this stuff; OK, I get it. But months of this stuff, what's the point, if you already have a kid who is a good reader?

MCPS teacher here...Please keep in mind that we, the classroom teachers, are told by the administration what we should be doing with the kids in the weeks prior to MSA testing. For example, in the area of math, we are provided with MCPS indicators that will be assessed on the state tests. One way to review for the material/indicators is to go over many of the questions on the formative assessments. Also keep in mind that with regards to testing, the calendar year is March to March. This means that your 3rd, 4th, or 5th grade child will be tested on material that may not be formally taught until the last marking period (April - June). So for example, your child may be expected to know how to measure an object to the nearest 1/4", but the math unit that includes measurement may be the last unit of the year (May - June). Something else to think about is the kid who works and is instructed above-grade-level in the area of math. Yes, these children have strong math skills and for the most part pick up and retain concepts easily. However, many of these kids have been pushed into above-grade-level classes and have missed some grade-level objectives. Quite a few of my students who work two years above-grade-level in math had no idea how to calculate the median, mode, and range of data displayed on a line plot on a practice test administered in recent weeks. These are 4th grade math objectives that will show up on the state tests. One child was quite frustrated by this and firmly told me that she had never been taught how to do these types of calculations. The practice tests are reviewed in class so that the children can see the mistakes they made. As for reading, classroom teachers are likely reviewing how to thoroughly respond to generic questions that can be applied to many texts. For example, your child may be asked to respond to a question like, "How does (name of character) change from the beginning to the end of the story. Use evidence from the text to support your answer." Your MCPS child is likely spending time these days reading multiple texts and writing and rewriting BCRs to improve the quality of their written responses. Please keep in mind that the classroom teachers would like to be spending more quality time on science investigations and the like, but we must do as we are told and that means more test prep for about another two weeks.

I find this very depressing. I realize that teachers are just doing the best they can to teach kids while also having to meet all of what is required of them. But who is going to stop this test prep madness? Everyone just says that they are doing what they are told. The teachers are just doing what the principals tell them. The principals are doing what the county tells them. The county is just trying to follow NCLB/state mandates. But it is the kids who suffer by missing out on a full curriculum, by having their interest in learning dulled with boring test prep, and their overall education dumbed down with teaching to the test.

I thank this teacher for his/her honest comments that are similar to what I've heard from other teachers in MoCo and elsewhere. However, every year the test prep seems to get worse. Preparation begins earlier in the year, the review packets get thicker, and the "extra" curriculum gets shoved aside. When will it end? Are there any teachers who are willing to take a stand and say enough is enough?!

I understand that even the brightest kids might need a little review before taking a standardized test but does anyone have any proof that shows why my child needs to spend FOUR months reviewing how to write a BCR? Why there are weekly mandatory packets sent home for FOUR months in addition to other homework? None of this is helping DC learn and is certainly not helping DC learn to love learning.

[Anonymous]

PP -- ideally the homework packets should just be called "homework" and they should start in September. That is, test prep such as how to write Brief Constructed Responses should be part of ever unit, and kids should have the same format of the MSA when they take their chapter and unit tests.

The MSAs just measure mastery of the curriculum, the same curriculum that teachers are supposed to be teaching anyhow. Test prep should be incorporated all year long, as part of regular homework and assessment. It shouldn't be obvious.

[Anonymous]

When I taught in VA about 15 years ago, just as these high stakes SOL tests were coming, the teachers went through a few years of freaking out over test prep and packets and so on. Finally they (and the principals) started to get more strategic, and changed their unit tests to look more like the end of year SOL tests. Eventually, the fourth grade teachers started testing kids at the very start of the year to see if they had retained their third grade concepts... and started holding the third grade teachers accountable if ta lot of children had been passed up to fourth grade without, say, knowing their times tables. The pressure started from the fifth grade teachers and moved down the grades. After a few years, teachers understood that if they failed to educate children in their class up to grade level standrads, they would be held responsible by teachers at later grades. CHildren who needed extra help started to get it in the first weeks of school -- no one waited around for the kids to fail and provide remediation in a big burst in January.

[Anonymous]

We are considering moving from DC to Bethesda or CC, and the above is useful, but disappointing. My kids were happy in K and 1st grades in our NW, DC school, which had a very creative, dynamic environment (though lots of busy work, especially in K). For the last two years we've been overseas, and they've been in private school. Now that we're moving back, we were thinking of making the leap north for the schools (and more space). Up to now, my kids have enjoyed school. They've done well, but are not super accelerated. They have not been beaten down by drudgery. Friends have said they're happy in MoCo, but so hard to compare!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your kids had never heard of the American Revolution and the Declaration of Independence by 4th grade???

From me, from the museums we take them too. And you are a condescending smarta$$.

But it's true that MoCo doesn't do really well on the Social Studies front. Especially if your kid is in the red zone. In 3rd grade my kid
"studied" fingerprinting in Social Studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a sample MSA Jumpstart test prep book, again fourth grade reading:


http://www.triumphlearning.com/parts/articles/101MD_sample.pdf

One week of this stuff; OK, I get it. But months of this stuff, what's the point, if you already have a kid who is a good reader?

MCPS teacher here...Please keep in mind that we, the classroom teachers, are told by the administration what we should be doing with the kids in the weeks prior to MSA testing. For example, in the area of math, we are provided with MCPS indicators that will be assessed on the state tests. One way to review for the material/indicators is to go over many of the questions on the formative assessments. Also keep in mind that with regards to testing, the calendar year is March to March. This means that your 3rd, 4th, or 5th grade child will be tested on material that may not be formally taught until the last marking period (April - June). So for example, your child may be expected to know how to measure an object to the nearest 1/4", but the math unit that includes measurement may be the last unit of the year (May - June). Something else to think about is the kid who works and is instructed above-grade-level in the area of math. Yes, these children have strong math skills and for the most part pick up and retain concepts easily. However, many of these kids have been pushed into above-grade-level classes and have missed some grade-level objectives. Quite a few of my students who work two years above-grade-level in math had no idea how to calculate the median, mode, and range of data displayed on a line plot on a practice test administered in recent weeks. These are 4th grade math objectives that will show up on the state tests. One child was quite frustrated by this and firmly told me that she had never been taught how to do these types of calculations. The practice tests are reviewed in class so that the children can see the mistakes they made. As for reading, classroom teachers are likely reviewing how to thoroughly respond to generic questions that can be applied to many texts. For example, your child may be asked to respond to a question like, "How does (name of character) change from the beginning to the end of the story. Use evidence from the text to support your answer." Your MCPS child is likely spending time these days reading multiple texts and writing and rewriting BCRs to improve the quality of their written responses. Please keep in mind that the classroom teachers would like to be spending more quality time on science investigations and the like, but we must do as we are told and that means more test prep for about another two weeks.

I find this very depressing. I realize that teachers are just doing the best they can to teach kids while also having to meet all of what is required of them. But who is going to stop this test prep madness? Everyone just says that they are doing what they are told. The teachers are just doing what the principals tell them. The principals are doing what the county tells them. The county is just trying to follow NCLB/state mandates. But it is the kids who suffer by missing out on a full curriculum, by having their interest in learning dulled with boring test prep, and their overall education dumbed down with teaching to the test.

I thank this teacher for his/her honest comments that are similar to what I've heard from other teachers in MoCo and elsewhere. However, every year the test prep seems to get worse. Preparation begins earlier in the year, the review packets get thicker, and the "extra" curriculum gets shoved aside. When will it end? Are there any teachers who are willing to take a stand and say enough is enough?!

I understand that even the brightest kids might need a little review before taking a standardized test but does anyone have any proof that shows why my child needs to spend FOUR months reviewing how to write a BCR? Why there are weekly mandatory packets sent home for FOUR months in addition to other homework? None of this is helping DC learn and is certainly not helping DC learn to love learning.

I am married to a MCPS teacher and I can confirm that what the PP MCPS teacher said is correct; the teachers would like to do more interesting things in the classroom but are not allowed to do so. The testing has taken over. To the PP who asked, "who is going to stop this test prep madness," the answer is YOU. The school board is an elected body and they are doing what they think you want them to do. The truth is that people judge a school by its test scores (look at the thread re choosing between Bethesda ES and Sommerset ES). Please send emails to the the County Executive, the school board members, the school superintendent, etc. telling them what you want in your school. Teachers who stray from the county curriculum risk poor reviews from their principals. My wife told me that the focus on testing kills the amount of creativity she can bring into her classroom. Please, we all have the ability to create change. Send emails, write the Gazette, call your school's principal and, more importantly, folks at the administrative level and let them know you want change.

[Anonymous]

When does all this testing begin? Do many of you feel that creativity is threatened in K - 3?

[Anonymous]

MSA (No Child Left Behind) testing begins in 3rd grade...but the stress starts younger, as the whole school gears up for it in the months leading up to it. Pep rallies, announcements, posters in the hall...