Do I nudge DS towards safe school and better chance of Merit Aid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am concerned about the effect of the pandemic on schools and their ability to offer merit or financial aid.

I think many schools are in deep financial trouble. And are likely to offer a lot less in aid next year. I think they also will prioritize full pay students in admission.

I think the conversation you need to have with your child is going to be even harder. Where he gets in might not have anything to do with him as a student, but with your ability to pay.

The entire admission process is about to be upended and your high school counselor probably isn't even aware.

A friend of mine is a history professor at a small school. They just cut 1/3 of the positions in her program, as well as others across the college and closed several departments (effective next Fall). Blamed on declining enrollment and financial pressures. It's an extreme case, but I'd be careful looking at smaller schools, especially if you're looking at arts/humanities programs as those are most often on the chopping block.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi All,

We have a Junior and he's our oldest, so we're learning our way through the college process. We met with a college advisor, and she suggested a few safe, target, and reach schools to consider. We are a Fed family and so finances are a concern. DS isn't interested in large schools like VA Tech, Pitt, Michigan, etc, and instead wants the smaller schools. The advisor suggested that merit aid is unlikely for any target or reach school, but that DS could likely receive merit aid for his supposed safety schools, based on his ACT 33 score and 4.6 GPA. She suggested Richmond and Case Western (and UMD, which even though it's large, she said it has a place for everyone and he has the grades and score to likely get in).

I'm torn about how strongly to nudge DS towards a school where he'll have a better chance to get aid (which seems to mean going to a less highly vaulted school), or that's more reasonably priced. I'm curious how other parents navigate these discussions and decisions. Thank you.

Your DS stats are better than Case and Richmond. I think Emory and Brown are similar schools but more prestigious.

That's the point. The very point is to be at the top of the range for the school in question, in order to get maximum merit scholarship money.

https://case.edu/admission/academics/facts-figures

The 75th percentile for the ACT composite at Case is 34. OP's DC's score is 33. Therefore he is positioned for merit scholarship money, but not necessarily the maximum award.

FWIW, Case gave my DC $30K/year merit scholarship money. DC's stats were 1600 SAT, 4.8 weighted GPA from the Blair math/science magnet. Some of DC's friends with similar stats were rejected outright.

FYI, Case weighs demonstrated interest heavily, I assume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi All,

We have a Junior and he's our oldest, so we're learning our way through the college process. We met with a college advisor, and she suggested a few safe, target, and reach schools to consider. We are a Fed family and so finances are a concern. DS isn't interested in large schools like VA Tech, Pitt, Michigan, etc, and instead wants the smaller schools. The advisor suggested that merit aid is unlikely for any target or reach school, but that DS could likely receive merit aid for his supposed safety schools, based on his ACT 33 score and 4.6 GPA. She suggested Richmond and Case Western (and UMD, which even though it's large, she said it has a place for everyone and he has the grades and score to likely get in).

I'm torn about how strongly to nudge DS towards a school where he'll have a better chance to get aid (which seems to mean going to a less highly vaulted school), or that's more reasonably priced. I'm curious how other parents navigate these discussions and decisions. Thank you.

Your DS stats are better than Case and Richmond. I think Emory and Brown are similar schools but more prestigious.

That's the point. The very point is to be at the top of the range for the school in question, in order to get maximum merit scholarship money.

https://case.edu/admission/academics/facts-figures

The 75th percentile for the ACT composite at Case is 34. OP's DC's score is 33. Therefore he is positioned for merit scholarship money, but not necessarily the maximum award.

FWIW, Case gave my DC $30K/year merit scholarship money. DC's stats were 1600 SAT, 4.8 weighted GPA from the Blair math/science magnet. Some of DC's friends with similar stats were rejected outright.

FYI, Case weighs demonstrated interest heavily, I assume.

FYI - Middle 50% ACT for Richmond is 32 to 34. I wouldn’t say OP’s scores are “better than Richmond.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi All,

We have a Junior and he's our oldest, so we're learning our way through the college process. We met with a college advisor, and she suggested a few safe, target, and reach schools to consider. We are a Fed family and so finances are a concern. DS isn't interested in large schools like VA Tech, Pitt, Michigan, etc, and instead wants the smaller schools. The advisor suggested that merit aid is unlikely for any target or reach school, but that DS could likely receive merit aid for his supposed safety schools, based on his ACT 33 score and 4.6 GPA. She suggested Richmond and Case Western (and UMD, which even though it's large, she said it has a place for everyone and he has the grades and score to likely get in).

I'm torn about how strongly to nudge DS towards a school where he'll have a better chance to get aid (which seems to mean going to a less highly vaulted school), or that's more reasonably priced. I'm curious how other parents navigate these discussions and decisions. Thank you.

Your DS stats are better than Case and Richmond. I think Emory and Brown are similar schools but more prestigious.

That's the point. The very point is to be at the top of the range for the school in question, in order to get maximum merit scholarship money.

https://case.edu/admission/academics/facts-figures

The 75th percentile for the ACT composite at Case is 34. OP's DC's score is 33. Therefore he is positioned for merit scholarship money, but not necessarily the maximum award.

FWIW, Case gave my DC $30K/year merit scholarship money. DC's stats were 1600 SAT, 4.8 weighted GPA from the Blair math/science magnet. Some of DC's friends with similar stats were rejected outright.

FYI, Case weighs demonstrated interest heavily, I assume.

FYI - Middle 50% ACT for Richmond is 32 to 34. I wouldn’t say OP’s scores are “better than Richmond.”

I agree, same goes for Case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi All,

We have a Junior and he's our oldest, so we're learning our way through the college process. We met with a college advisor, and she suggested a few safe, target, and reach schools to consider. We are a Fed family and so finances are a concern. DS isn't interested in large schools like VA Tech, Pitt, Michigan, etc, and instead wants the smaller schools. The advisor suggested that merit aid is unlikely for any target or reach school, but that DS could likely receive merit aid for his supposed safety schools, based on his ACT 33 score and 4.6 GPA. She suggested Richmond and Case Western (and UMD, which even though it's large, she said it has a place for everyone and he has the grades and score to likely get in).

I'm torn about how strongly to nudge DS towards a school where he'll have a better chance to get aid (which seems to mean going to a less highly vaulted school), or that's more reasonably priced. I'm curious how other parents navigate these discussions and decisions. Thank you.

Your DS stats are better than Case and Richmond. I think Emory and Brown are similar schools but more prestigious.

That's the point. The very point is to be at the top of the range for the school in question, in order to get maximum merit scholarship money.

https://case.edu/admission/academics/facts-figures

The 75th percentile for the ACT composite at Case is 34. OP's DC's score is 33. Therefore he is positioned for merit scholarship money, but not necessarily the maximum award.

FWIW, Case gave my DC $30K/year merit scholarship money. DC's stats were 1600 SAT, 4.8 weighted GPA from the Blair math/science magnet. Some of DC's friends with similar stats were rejected outright.

FYI, Case weighs demonstrated interest heavily, I assume.

Case rejected applicants with close to 1600 SAT? That sounds weird. You would think they would be enthusiastic about applicants from a science Magnet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am concerned about the effect of the pandemic on schools and their ability to offer merit or financial aid.

I think many schools are in deep financial trouble. And are likely to offer a lot less in aid next year. I think they also will prioritize full pay students in admission.

I think the conversation you need to have with your child is going to be even harder. Where he gets in might not have anything to do with him as a student, but with your ability to pay.

The entire admission process is about to be upended and your high school counselor probably isn't even aware.

There aren’t enough full pay families to go around, so schools may try and end up with really disappointing yields

Yeah. The higher tier schools will admit mostly full pay. The lower tier schools... are going to have financial difficulty and some will fold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am concerned about the effect of the pandemic on schools and their ability to offer merit or financial aid.

I think many schools are in deep financial trouble. And are likely to offer a lot less in aid next year. I think they also will prioritize full pay students in admission.

I think the conversation you need to have with your child is going to be even harder. Where he gets in might not have anything to do with him as a student, but with your ability to pay.

The entire admission process is about to be upended and your high school counselor probably isn't even aware.

A friend of mine is a history professor at a small school. They just cut 1/3 of the positions in her program, as well as others across the college and closed several departments (effective next Fall). Blamed on declining enrollment and financial pressures. It's an extreme case, but I'd be careful looking at smaller schools, especially if you're looking at arts/humanities programs as those are most often on the chopping block.

Yes. This is happening at many schools. No one should be using past data right now to gain insight into the next few years. Everything about college is being upended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am concerned about the effect of the pandemic on schools and their ability to offer merit or financial aid.

I think many schools are in deep financial trouble. And are likely to offer a lot less in aid next year. I think they also will prioritize full pay students in admission.

I think the conversation you need to have with your child is going to be even harder. Where he gets in might not have anything to do with him as a student, but with your ability to pay.

The entire admission process is about to be upended and your high school counselor probably isn't even aware.

A friend of mine is a history professor at a small school. They just cut 1/3 of the positions in her program, as well as others across the college and closed several departments (effective next Fall). Blamed on declining enrollment and financial pressures. It's an extreme case, but I'd be careful looking at smaller schools, especially if you're looking at arts/humanities programs as those are most often on the chopping block.

Yes. This is happening at many schools. No one should be using past data right now to gain insight into the next few years. Everything about college is being upended.

This is why my kid applied to 12 schools, at a variety of price points. Of course we included safeties and in-state options, but also let DC put together a list that in some ways is a bit of a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach. When all of the decisions have come in, we'll sit down with the possibilities and talk about costs, any aid received, etc. DC knows and is ok with the fact that there are schools on the list that simply may not be possible depending on how things pan out. On the upside, three rolling admission schools have already sent offers of admission including merit aid that make any of them affordable for us (not necessarily that we'd *want* to spend that much if we didn't have to, but we *could* if nothing else comes along). It's taken a lot of the pressure off.

[Anonymous]

+1

[Anonymous]

Yes! DD list most-expensive to least-expensive was completely re-ordered after all acceptances/merit aid awards came it. Applied to 10 schools. Didn't even see 7 of them before being admitted. Apply widely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi All,

We have a Junior and he's our oldest, so we're learning our way through the college process. We met with a college advisor, and she suggested a few safe, target, and reach schools to consider. We are a Fed family and so finances are a concern. DS isn't interested in large schools like VA Tech, Pitt, Michigan, etc, and instead wants the smaller schools. The advisor suggested that merit aid is unlikely for any target or reach school, but that DS could likely receive merit aid for his supposed safety schools, based on his ACT 33 score and 4.6 GPA. She suggested Richmond and Case Western (and UMD, which even though it's large, she said it has a place for everyone and he has the grades and score to likely get in).

I'm torn about how strongly to nudge DS towards a school where he'll have a better chance to get aid (which seems to mean going to a less highly vaulted school), or that's more reasonably priced. I'm curious how other parents navigate these discussions and decisions. Thank you.

Your DS stats are better than Case and Richmond. I think Emory and Brown are similar schools but more prestigious.

My Kid's stats were slightly lower (although graduated with an IB diploma) and both Case and Richmond gave significant merit money. Emory didn't give anything.

[Anonymous]

Case western is very expensive and even with aid not worth it.

My kids applied a lot of schools. For safety with good grades and GPAs. JMU and Binghamton give in state tuition to out of state students. Loyola MD will toss out 25-30k off.

[Anonymous]

"In the end though he decided to attend UMD honors college which was much cheaper."

It's not hard to find a bunch of schools that after merit aid will cost exactly what UMD costs.

Our DC with a 1300 and a 4.0 Weighted, got that deal from 6 of the 8 schools they applied to.

The problem is that they will be much worse schools, even though in DC's case they had ABET engineering programs so they were places you have heard about.

DC#2 was a much stronger candidate than the OP's son. They got into 6 schools ranked between 10 and 60 but their merit aid was $10k to $15k for schools ranked in the 4-50s.

We thought schools ranked in the 4-50s that talked about merit aid would try to match UMD, but it turns out that since they are ranked higher, they cost more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My oldest "underapplied" and racked up significant merit aid at smaller schools. (As a fed/teacher family, we needed that help and she did not want to run up significant loan debt for undergrad) She is thriving as big fish in a small pond. For her that is a significant self-esteem boost and she will likely graduate double major/double minor, summa cum laude, with many leadership positions and faculty connections. The school name may not buy her access to a job as easily, but this kid will make it in life. And she is happy!

We did the same for our DS. We told him what what we could afford, and that to go out of state he would need signficant merit aid. We knew we wouldn't qualify for enough need based aid to make any private school and many OOS publics doable. So we took all schools that offer only financial aid off the table. That removed most of the top schools from the list. We focused on small schools (his preference) that offer significant merit aid to top students. In the end, DS was offered merit aid at 5 schools ranging from $20-30k. He also applied to and was accepted at 2 small publics that have affordable OOS tuition-- SUNY-Geneseo and UNC Asheville, plus an instate safety. The only "reach" school on his list was our instate flagship; he was accepted but chose not to attend.

Like PP's DD, he ended up a big fish in a small pond and absolutely thrived. He got to know several professors well, worked closely with one on a research project, served as a TA for another, helped a club to a national ranking, made Phi Beta Kappa and graduated summa cum laude in May. He had several good summer internships and is now employed in a job in his desired field.

We're now taking the same approach with DC2, a HS senior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am concerned about the effect of the pandemic on schools and their ability to offer merit or financial aid.

I think many schools are in deep financial trouble. And are likely to offer a lot less in aid next year. I think they also will prioritize full pay students in admission.

I think the conversation you need to have with your child is going to be even harder. Where he gets in might not have anything to do with him as a student, but with your ability to pay.

The entire admission process is about to be upended and your high school counselor probably isn't even aware.

A friend of mine is a history professor at a small school. They just cut 1/3 of the positions in her program, as well as others across the college and closed several departments (effective next Fall). Blamed on declining enrollment and financial pressures. It's an extreme case, but I'd be careful looking at smaller schools, especially if you're looking at arts/humanities programs as those are most often on the chopping block.

Yes. This is happening at many schools. No one should be using past data right now to gain insight into the next few years. Everything about college is being upended.

This is true but it doesn't really change the game for people like OP. Schools that offer only need- based aid are still offering only need- based aid. So the only affordable options will be in- state publics, OOS publics with lower OOS tuition (not Michigan, UVA, any of the UCs, etc), and schools that historically have offered a lot of merit aid. The difference is that it will likely be harder to get merit aid now. So OP should make sure her DS applies to at least one school that is a sure admit that they can afford outright. That will likely be one of her state's mid-tier publics.