SLAC Legacy Admission

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Harvard has released its and it is 33%, which is 5-6 times regular admission so would not be surprised at all if SLAC Big 2 is around the same. It’s a bit of a self-selecting fugure, however, since Admissions will give legacy applicants an advance read and let them know likelihood if they apply ED.

Still no Williams or Amherst citation. Got it.

It is from Daniel Golden’s book “The Price of Admissions”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Harvard has released its and it is 33%, which is 5-6 times regular admission so would not be surprised at all if SLAC Big 2 is around the same. It’s a bit of a self-selecting fugure, however, since Admissions will give legacy applicants an advance read and let them know likelihood if they apply ED.

Still no Williams or Amherst citation. Got it.

It is from Daniel Golden’s book “The Price of Admissions”

Published in 2005

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Harvard has released its and it is 33%, which is 5-6 times regular admission so would not be surprised at all if SLAC Big 2 is around the same. It’s a bit of a self-selecting fugure, however, since Admissions will give legacy applicants an advance read and let them know likelihood if they apply ED.

Harvard numbers were released as a result of the recent lawsuit: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/6/20/admissions-docs-legacy/

[Anonymous]

OP, I hope you can scroll past the silly arguments about admissions rates and focus on the good comments here about fit and academic culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hope you can scroll past the silly arguments about admissions rates and focus on the good comments here about fit and academic culture.

OP here. Yes, thanks for all the comments re fit. They confirmed my initial inclinations that it is probably better for her to be somewhere else where she will fit in better academically and perhaps socially. Finding that place is a whole other question but I think she is on the right track in creating her list of schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes, thanks for all the comments re fit. They confirmed my initial inclinations that it is probably better for her to be somewhere else where she will fit in better academically and perhaps socially. Finding that place is a whole other question but I think she is on the right track in creating her list of schools.

Excellent! Please keep us posted if you can.

[Anonymous]

Fit is definitely something to consider. If your kid wants to go to Williams, definitely have them apply ED. I went to Williams and have been a very consistent (but pretty small) donor over the years. My son had a 3.9 GAP (4.41 wGPA) at TJHSST and a 35 ACT, but a weak EC profile (didn't study all the time, but just liked to do his own thing). He was unsure whether Williams was a good fit for him, and didn't want to apply ED. Did apply regular decision, and was rejected. I was invited to speak with the Dean of Admissions after the decision, but it was a very non-substantive ("we have many great applicants, and its nothing specific about your son's application") and unsatisfying call. I was pretty disappointed at the time, and probably would have said something during the call, but I have a younger son who is also very smart and might be a better fit for Williams, so I stayed quiet other than thanking her for her time.

Getting back to your specific question, I don't think that the academic workload at a Williams or Amherst would necessarily be that much harder than at Dickinson for example, but there will likely be fewer tip top students. So I wouldn't pass on an ED application to Williams or Amherst or something like that simply because you are worried your kid won't be able to handle the workload.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fit is definitely something to consider. If your kid wants to go to Williams, definitely have them apply ED. I went to Williams and have been a very consistent (but pretty small) donor over the years. My son had a 3.9 GAP (4.41 wGPA) at TJHSST and a 35 ACT, but a weak EC profile (didn't study all the time, but just liked to do his own thing). He was unsure whether Williams was a good fit for him, and didn't want to apply ED. Did apply regular decision, and was rejected. I was invited to speak with the Dean of Admissions after the decision, but it was a very non-substantive ("we have many great applicants, and its nothing specific about your son's application") and unsatisfying call. I was pretty disappointed at the time, and probably would have said something during the call, but I have a younger son who is also very smart and might be a better fit for Williams, so I stayed quiet other than thanking her for her time.

Getting back to your specific question, I don't think that the academic workload at a Williams or Amherst would necessarily be that much harder than at Dickinson for example, but there will likely be fewer tip top students. So I wouldn't pass on an ED application to Williams or Amherst or something like that simply because you are worried your kid won't be able to handle the workload.

It probably depends on the school and the power that the alumi have in the school’s governance and how answerable the administration is to the alumni- I know Harvard is next to none

[Anonymous]

Academically she’ll be fine. The question is whether it’ll be the right fit socially. Our two oldest kids were high-stats, athletic recruits and legacy admits to one of the top-ranked SLACs. They were happy as clams and did did quite well academically. Our youngest, also an athletic recruit and a legacy, was a solid student in HS. We know she would have been just fine academically at the legacy school because our older kids had friends who fit that profile ( as did DH back in the day, when he was a student there). I mean, she wasn’t going to be transformed into a Marshall Scholar, but no question she would have been able to handle the workload. (Caveat: she has excellent time-management and study skills, and is the kind of kid who goes to profs’ office hours and creates study groups— certainly the best “student” of our three.). She questioned whether it was the right place for her socially, though, and ended up choosing another NESCAC school that is not as highly-ranked, but definitely more chill. She’s now a sophomore and we can see the wisdom of her choice.

[Anonymous]

I grew up with professor parents and was always told that picking among decent or good or excellent LACs isn’t about the work or education - you can get a good education at many schools or a crappy one. It’s much much more about the makeup of the student body. Who attends? Are those people the ones you want to be friends with? Your peers for life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up with professor parents and was always told that picking among decent or good or excellent LACs isn’t about the work or education - you can get a good education at many schools or a crappy one. It’s much much more about the makeup of the student body. Who attends? Are those people the ones you want to be friends with? Your peers for life?

Elitism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Speaking from the perspective of a professor: the extraordinarily high stats that define the majority of the admit pool these days do not mean that those stats are necessary for success in very high-ranked colleges. Kids whose numbers are fine but wouldn't get them noticed without a legacy boost in the admit pool are quite honestly not distinguishable academically once they're all in class together, except perhaps for cases of extraordinary talent in one area. Many, many kids at the top-ranked SLAC I'm most familiar with have various kinds of executive function or similar issues, so I wouldn't worry about that per se.

A better question is whether she would thrive in the atmosphere of the particular school in question. Some of the top SLACs have a very academically competitive culture, especially in the sciences, quite apart from the actual talents of the students, and some have a much more supportive vibe. My hope for every student is that they find the school that's the best fit for their personality, where they will do their best work because they feel supported as well as reasonably challenged by their peers as well as the faculty. There are so many great schools out there. In your daughter's situation, I'd be inclined to let her take the full admissions cycle to find a great fit rather than applying ED, and hope that by next spring on-campus visits are even possible before she has to make a decision.

Professor, how do students find out the “ great fit” college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fit is definitely something to consider. If your kid wants to go to Williams, definitely have them apply ED. I went to Williams and have been a very consistent (but pretty small) donor over the years. My son had a 3.9 GAP (4.41 wGPA) at TJHSST and a 35 ACT, but a weak EC profile (didn't study all the time, but just liked to do his own thing). He was unsure whether Williams was a good fit for him, and didn't want to apply ED. Did apply regular decision, and was rejected. I was invited to speak with the Dean of Admissions after the decision, but it was a very non-substantive ("we have many great applicants, and its nothing specific about your son's application") and unsatisfying call. I was pretty disappointed at the time, and probably would have said something during the call, but I have a younger son who is also very smart and might be a better fit for Williams, so I stayed quiet other than thanking her for her time.

Getting back to your specific question, I don't think that the academic workload at a Williams or Amherst would necessarily be that much harder than at Dickinson for example, but there will likely be fewer tip top students. So I wouldn't pass on an ED application to Williams or Amherst or something like that simply because you are worried your kid won't be able to handle the workload.

How did that phone call with the Dean come about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: you didn't mention where she is in high school. Stats like from one of the area highly rigorous privates show that she can in fact hack the work of probably any school. Stats like that from a local public would indidace that she may not. 1380 is a strong score, it's the grades that are the issue.

No, 1380 is a weak score at W-A-S. Below the bottom 25% at all three. Williams 25% = 1420, Amherst 25% = 1420, Swat 25% = 1390,

Possibly dumb question. Let me understand. Based on this 25% of the students scored lower. That suggests that the OP's kid could hack the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I recall talking to a neighbor whose son was one of the top graduates at our fairly competitive public high school a few years back and ended up at Williams. She said he was shocked at how much more intense it was than high school (and he thought he went to a pretty intense high school.) I don’t know how I would make the decision you’re considering but it does seem to be that how a young person feels about themselves and their academic growth over four years might be more important the name prestige. So many kids struggle with depression and anxiety in college specifically as pertains to the workload. I think ultimately I would want my kid in the school that was best fit vs most prestigious.

This.