TJ townhall/inequity vis-a-vis truly gifted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is similar to what has been happening in AAP admissions for only a few years. Pushing kids in, at certain locations especially, to achieve diversity and certain quotas. If a child that deserves to be in doesn't get in, oh well, it doesn't really matter anyway - that is the response you get from admin. Teachers are not happy about it either.

There is no limit on the number of kids found eligible for AAP.

[Anonymous]

FCPS is doing the easy thing.......rather than improve the other school to bring up their standards to TJ-like, they want the voters to focus on this in-fighting with quota for TJ.

The assumption is you can legislate equality of results - Wrong, that will never happen. Even in a family with multiple kids (even identical twins), the results can vary despite as standardize an environment as you can get.

Things that make everyone feel good like grade inflation, not failing kids when they deserve to be failed, victimiziation (its not your fault for not studying hard, its due to the white supremacy) are all hurting our kids and our society.

“If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse.” Jim Rohn

Even kids from a wealthy family (to get into TJ) still has to work VERY hard to get into TJ. You still have to practice and do hundreds of extra questions to prepare. The tutors do not provide any magical dust - they teach the kids and provide them with tips or additional questions to practice. It is like saying because someone hires a professional athelete to train you kid, he will be the star of the football team!

Questions for TJ or other standarize tests are available in the library or local schools - if a URM kid does all the questions and work hard, they can get into TJ as well. It almost appear to be blantant racism against URMs that you need to change the rules to the game because they can't compete with the same rules as the other minorities (non-whites).

Govt programs that "encourage" the breakdown of the family structure is a big cause of the lack of advancement among URMs. Numerous studies have shown that families with 2 parents have kids more likely to be successful. You can see this with blacks from Africa that have no problem with achievment in our society (taking advantage of the lower bars for URMs in the U.S.) - they account for majority of the "blacks" at Ivy Leagues (but the Ivys don't care where their URMs are from as long as they get to check to box for diversity, but is that really helping the African Americans in the U.S.?)

This same type of "unfairness" happen all over the world. In Asia, Africa, and Latin American, there is discrimination among their own people (base on income, casts, skin color.....). In some of those society, no matter how bright you are, you can never make it because of true discrimination. If our society is so racist, why is there still people wanting to come to the U.S.? I don't see a big influx of people going back to their motherland of Africa, Asia or Latin America.

We are teaching our kids to be entitled, dumbing down schools to avoid making kids feel bad for getting a bad grade, trophies for everyone, everyone is a genius - and when they go out to the REAL world, where they are expected to be responsible and accountable, they melt down and need a therapist or coloring book. Previous generations took on Nazi Germany & true racism of the Jim Crow Laws/Civil rights movement but now when someone call as a name, it breaks us! When did we start giving those who are true racists so much power in their words? We should be teaching our kids to feel sorry for those who still think like that - it is almost they think the Earth is still flat!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is doing the easy thing.......rather than improve the other school to bring up their standards to TJ-like, they want the voters to focus on this in-fighting with quota for TJ.

The assumption is you can legislate equality of results - Wrong, that will never happen. Even in a family with multiple kids (even identical twins), the results can vary despite as standardize an environment as you can get.

Things that make everyone feel good like grade inflation, not failing kids when they deserve to be failed, victimiziation (its not your fault for not studying hard, its due to the white supremacy) are all hurting our kids and our society.

“If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse.” Jim Rohn

Even kids from a wealthy family (to get into TJ) still has to work VERY hard to get into TJ. You still have to practice and do hundreds of extra questions to prepare. The tutors do not provide any magical dust - they teach the kids and provide them with tips or additional questions to practice. It is like saying because someone hires a professional athelete to train you kid, he will be the star of the football team!

Questions for TJ or other standarize tests are available in the library or local schools - if a URM kid does all the questions and work hard, they can get into TJ as well. It almost appear to be blantant racism against URMs that you need to change the rules to the game because they can't compete with the same rules as the other minorities (non-whites).

Govt programs that "encourage" the breakdown of the family structure is a big cause of the lack of advancement among URMs. Numerous studies have shown that families with 2 parents have kids more likely to be successful. You can see this with blacks from Africa that have no problem with achievment in our society (taking advantage of the lower bars for URMs in the U.S.) - they account for majority of the "blacks" at Ivy Leagues (but the Ivys don't care where their URMs are from as long as they get to check to box for diversity, but is that really helping the African Americans in the U.S.?)

This same type of "unfairness" happen all over the world. In Asia, Africa, and Latin American, there is discrimination among their own people (base on income, casts, skin color.....). In some of those society, no matter how bright you are, you can never make it because of true discrimination. If our society is so racist, why is there still people wanting to come to the U.S.? I don't see a big influx of people going back to their motherland of Africa, Asia or Latin America.

We are teaching our kids to be entitled, dumbing down schools to avoid making kids feel bad for getting a bad grade, trophies for everyone, everyone is a genius - and when they go out to the REAL world, where they are expected to be responsible and accountable, they melt down and need a therapist or coloring book. Previous generations took on Nazi Germany & true racism of the Jim Crow Laws/Civil rights movement but now when someone call as a name, it breaks us! When did we start giving those who are true racists so much power in their words? We should be teaching our kids to feel sorry for those who still think like that - it is almost they think the Earth is still flat!

Great post, PP!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is doing the easy thing.......rather than improve the other school to bring up their standards to TJ-like, they want the voters to focus on this in-fighting with quota for TJ.

The assumption is you can legislate equality of results - Wrong, that will never happen. Even in a family with multiple kids (even identical twins), the results can vary despite as standardize an environment as you can get.

Things that make everyone feel good like grade inflation, not failing kids when they deserve to be failed, victimiziation (its not your fault for not studying hard, its due to the white supremacy) are all hurting our kids and our society.

“If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse.” Jim Rohn

Even kids from a wealthy family (to get into TJ) still has to work VERY hard to get into TJ. You still have to practice and do hundreds of extra questions to prepare. The tutors do not provide any magical dust - they teach the kids and provide them with tips or additional questions to practice. It is like saying because someone hires a professional athelete to train you kid, he will be the star of the football team!

Questions for TJ or other standarize tests are available in the library or local schools - if a URM kid does all the questions and work hard, they can get into TJ as well. It almost appear to be blantant racism against URMs that you need to change the rules to the game because they can't compete with the same rules as the other minorities (non-whites).

Govt programs that "encourage" the breakdown of the family structure is a big cause of the lack of advancement among URMs. Numerous studies have shown that families with 2 parents have kids more likely to be successful. You can see this with blacks from Africa that have no problem with achievment in our society (taking advantage of the lower bars for URMs in the U.S.) - they account for majority of the "blacks" at Ivy Leagues (but the Ivys don't care where their URMs are from as long as they get to check to box for diversity, but is that really helping the African Americans in the U.S.?)

This same type of "unfairness" happen all over the world. In Asia, Africa, and Latin American, there is discrimination among their own people (base on income, casts, skin color.....). In some of those society, no matter how bright you are, you can never make it because of true discrimination. If our society is so racist, why is there still people wanting to come to the U.S.? I don't see a big influx of people going back to their motherland of Africa, Asia or Latin America.

We are teaching our kids to be entitled, dumbing down schools to avoid making kids feel bad for getting a bad grade, trophies for everyone, everyone is a genius - and when they go out to the REAL world, where they are expected to be responsible and accountable, they melt down and need a therapist or coloring book. Previous generations took on Nazi Germany & true racism of the Jim Crow Laws/Civil rights movement but now when someone call as a name, it breaks us! When did we start giving those who are true racists so much power in their words? We should be teaching our kids to feel sorry for those who still think like that - it is almost they think the Earth is still flat!

at least you're honest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is doing the easy thing.......rather than improve the other school to bring up their standards to TJ-like, they want the voters to focus on this in-fighting with quota for TJ.

The assumption is you can legislate equality of results - Wrong, that will never happen. Even in a family with multiple kids (even identical twins), the results can vary despite as standardize an environment as you can get.

Things that make everyone feel good like grade inflation, not failing kids when they deserve to be failed, victimiziation (its not your fault for not studying hard, its due to the white supremacy) are all hurting our kids and our society.

“If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse.” Jim Rohn

Even kids from a wealthy family (to get into TJ) still has to work VERY hard to get into TJ. You still have to practice and do hundreds of extra questions to prepare. The tutors do not provide any magical dust - they teach the kids and provide them with tips or additional questions to practice. It is like saying because someone hires a professional athelete to train you kid, he will be the star of the football team!

Questions for TJ or other standarize tests are available in the library or local schools - if a URM kid does all the questions and work hard, they can get into TJ as well. It almost appear to be blantant racism against URMs that you need to change the rules to the game because they can't compete with the same rules as the other minorities (non-whites).

Govt programs that "encourage" the breakdown of the family structure is a big cause of the lack of advancement among URMs. Numerous studies have shown that families with 2 parents have kids more likely to be successful. You can see this with blacks from Africa that have no problem with achievment in our society (taking advantage of the lower bars for URMs in the U.S.) - they account for majority of the "blacks" at Ivy Leagues (but the Ivys don't care where their URMs are from as long as they get to check to box for diversity, but is that really helping the African Americans in the U.S.?)

This same type of "unfairness" happen all over the world. In Asia, Africa, and Latin American, there is discrimination among their own people (base on income, casts, skin color.....). In some of those society, no matter how bright you are, you can never make it because of true discrimination. If our society is so racist, why is there still people wanting to come to the U.S.? I don't see a big influx of people going back to their motherland of Africa, Asia or Latin America.

We are teaching our kids to be entitled, dumbing down schools to avoid making kids feel bad for getting a bad grade, trophies for everyone, everyone is a genius - and when they go out to the REAL world, where they are expected to be responsible and accountable, they melt down and need a therapist or coloring book. Previous generations took on Nazi Germany & true racism of the Jim Crow Laws/Civil rights movement but now when someone call as a name, it breaks us! When did we start giving those who are true racists so much power in their words? We should be teaching our kids to feel sorry for those who still think like that - it is almost they think the Earth is still flat!

Most blacks in America have roots in America that date back before most whites in this country. Africa is not their motherland, they have zero connection to it. I don't think gifted kids need TJ and I think TJ disadvantages many of them because some students have to be in the bottom half of the class. Because I don't think gifted kids need TJ to be successful, I'm not upset about the change. I think it will develop a broader cross section of kids into kids that are strong in STEM. I think that's an important goal. FCPS can support high performing kids by offering more DE classes with GMU. My 11th grader is currently enrolled in DE multivar calc through GMU. There's no reason FCPS can't offer even higher level classes. The lottery will increase socioeconomic diversity and will also increase racial diversity. The argument that racial diversity won't improve because so few black kids make the cut under the current system is misplaced. One of the reason there are so few URM kids at TJ under the current system is because super bright URM kids don't see TJ as a ticket into a top ten school so don't even bother applying. Those kids likely still won't jump into the lottery because excelling at their base school is working for them. You will, however, see an increase in the number of URMs from the next tier, as you'll see with Asian kids from the next tier. A lot of the super high performing Asian kids will also discover that excelling at their base schools is better than being in the bottom 75 percent at TJ. Two of my Asian friends decided against their second kids applying to TJ because they figured that out with their first kids who went to TJ. I think when this all settles, it will workout for all involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no doubt TJ Admissions need to be reset and diversity issues addressed ASAP. But what was disappointing was the callous response from Dr Braband to the question of the lottery potentially excluding truly deserving students. His response was essentially that everyone thinks their own kid is truly gifted and deserving of admission. And not getting into TJ is “not the end of the world”. Well if that is the case then what is the brouhaha all about? And there are truly gifted kids (not necessarily mine) that will be left out. It was sad to see an educator endorsing collateral damage. The end should never justify the means especially when the platform is one of fairness and equity. I was hoping they would consider some avenues for the truly gifted but the insouciance of the Superintendent on the issue was telling

They just want to pander to blacks and screw over Asians.

No, pander to whites through the guise of pandering to blacks, with the purpose of screwing over Asians.

I’m white but this is like, very obviously what’s afoot. How do people not get it?

+1. As an alumna from the early 00s, I find it weird that all the documents only talk about the diversity problem going back a decade. People have been griping about diversity at TJ for at least 20 years. What happened in the twenty-teens? Oh right, the white admissions tanked.

I really don't care all that much about how the admissions process works, honestly. But I do think it's absurd that the truly gifted might be denied a chance to go.

I find it absurd that the defense of the status quo at TJ is largely to acknowledge that only a small subset of the students there truly need an alternative to their assigned high school.

For this we have so much drama, year after year? When other schools are overcrowded?

Turn TJ back into a neighborhood school and let this very small cohort that supposedly really needs something more do dual enrollment at George Mason.

Have you ever been in the labs at TJ?? You can't honestly be serious in thinking dual enrolling at GM is even remotely equivalent to providing the same experience as a TJ. Your suggestion to disband the school is the exact opposite of what we need here. The main problem is that one TJ school is not nearly enough capacity for the many talented and hard working kids in the area. There should be a couple of other TJ like schools created in the county, at least 2 more (just like in MCPS). Then all these competitive cutthroat issues will go away when there is enough room for anyone who wants to apply. The entrance requirements should definitely not be watered down and a test should still be a significant portion of getting in. No lottery, but enough room to accept anyone who proves they are motivated, wants to get in, and is willing to work hard. Many of the transportation issues would also go away as folks would opt for the closest school.

Of course we all know that this is all wishful thinking and will NEVER happen in this county; academic excellence has long gone the way of the dodo. Sadly, it's even likely that when too many people fight to be part of something really good, it will risk ending the program and we will regress back into mediocrity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, pander to whites through the guise of pandering to blacks, with the purpose of screwing over Asians.

I’m white but this is like, very obviously what’s afoot. How do people not get it?

Can you explain this? I am white. I have kids in FCPS. I would not really want them to go to TJ - too much stress, too far away, etc. Honestly, I don't know any white parents who want to send their kids to TJ.

What does this have to do with white people? I'm not arguing - I am literally trying to understand. Thanks.

Not this PP, but a DP who agrees. The reasoning is that African American, Hispanic, and other non-Asian minority group admissions have stayed stable over time. Asian admission have risen as white admissions have gone down. Why is it that the complaints didn't cause any real change before (except things like upping the number of admissions from 400 to 440), but now they are? It seems suspect.

This doesn't really make sense to me. It is clearly due to the BLM movement across the world. The school board is now entirely made up of very liberal democrats and NOVA in general has become very liberal.

I don't really think this is a white people thing.

Liberal doesn't mean non-racist anymore than conservative means racist. It's just tribal reality.