Perspective on WISC and AAP in general

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS should just rename this program to AVID. That's really what it's becoming. That would eliminate all those pesky gifted kids from trying to get in.

GAFP (Get Away From the Poors)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nor do they best post-secondary institutions in America even matter. I'm a lawyer who went to Georgetown Law. I work with and supervise people who went to Havard Law and Ivy undergrads. I went to Florida State for undergrad and public school as a child. Some of my colleagues went to the best privates money could buy. We're in the same boat.

how well would you be doing without Georgetown as your final degree and how well did you have to do at Florida State to get there. There is a difference between a monopoly and an advantage that gives you a larger margin or error. No one is claiming AAP is a monopoly, but it does help and marginal differences matter

NP. I could not have gotten into Harvard and like because I was very lazy in hs so I don’t mind that I had to do really hard work in college to get the good job I have today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nor do they best post-secondary institutions in America even matter. I'm a lawyer who went to Georgetown Law. I work with and supervise people who went to Havard Law and Ivy undergrads. I went to Florida State for undergrad and public school as a child. Some of my colleagues went to the best privates money could buy. We're in the same boat.

how well would you be doing without Georgetown as your final degree and how well did you have to do at Florida State to get there. There is a difference between a monopoly and an advantage that gives you a larger margin or error. No one is claiming AAP is a monopoly, but it does help and marginal differences matter

NP. I could not have gotten into Harvard and like because I was very lazy in hs so I don’t mind that I had to do really hard work in college to get the good job I have today.

That's TJ in a nutshell. You could have been lazy at Harvard, done well on LSATs and ended up at Georgetown law, Instead you had to work hard at Florida state to get the same result. You can go to TJ and finish middle of the road and expect the same college acceptances as someone who works insanely hard at WestPo. For AAP in general, you can sail a long in elementary School and be positioned for honors classes in Middle or you have work hard and have to test into advanced math every year as a gen ed student to get the same result

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
And how does it make sense to reject my rising 3rd grader with an unprepped CogAT of 135 and a WISC of 136? I am not saying my tax dollars should allow me in--I am saying that I know what the program is like (slightly advanced) and I know that my smart enough, messy handwriting, energetic and disorganized kid--who works above grade level and has always gotten all 4s--can handle it as easily as older siblings can.

I think AAP is suffering from an identity crisis and they have chosen an incredibly strange way to resolve it this year.

A lot of this is covered in the equity report, but it appears FCPS is choosing to cherry pick. For one thing, they flat out state that the mission of AAP has become unclear, and it needs to be resolved. They also suggested that WISC and appeals in general are only for the most part available to people of means, and that eliminating them would reduce the gap. I'm guessing that FCPS pretty much discounted the WISC this year.

But, one of the other things brought up is that GBRS is very subjective and not a vetted, accurate giftedness measure. They noted that GBRS is 4 times as important as even the most important score, which was CogAT Q. They recommended de-emphasizing GBRS and using a better measure, which FCPS apparently chose to ignore.

I'm assuming your kid got a somewhat low GBRS. I would love to see how the school can justify giving a low GBRS to a kid who is working above grade level and getting 4s in all subjects, and additionally has a CogAT in the 99th percentile. That's just ridiculous.

One other random thought: If they're discounting the CogAT scores because they're worried about prepping, why not go the other direction and officially do some CogAT prepping for everyone in 2nd grade? All of the scores would be artificially high, but it would also even the playing field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And how does it make sense to reject my rising 3rd grader with an unprepped CogAT of 135 and a WISC of 136? I am not saying my tax dollars should allow me in--I am saying that I know what the program is like (slightly advanced) and I know that my smart enough, messy handwriting, energetic and disorganized kid--who works above grade level and has always gotten all 4s--can handle it as easily as older siblings can.

I think AAP is suffering from an identity crisis and they have chosen an incredibly strange way to resolve it this year.

A lot of this is covered in the equity report, but it appears FCPS is choosing to cherry pick. For one thing, they flat out state that the mission of AAP has become unclear, and it needs to be resolved. They also suggested that WISC and appeals in general are only for the most part available to people of means, and that eliminating them would reduce the gap. I'm guessing that FCPS pretty much discounted the WISC this year.

But, one of the other things brought up is that GBRS is very subjective and not a vetted, accurate giftedness measure. They noted that GBRS is 4 times as important as even the most important score, which was CogAT Q. They recommended de-emphasizing GBRS and using a better measure, which FCPS apparently chose to ignore.

I'm assuming your kid got a somewhat low GBRS. I would love to see how the school can justify giving a low GBRS to a kid who is working above grade level and getting 4s in all subjects, and additionally has a CogAT in the 99th percentile. That's just ridiculous.

One other random thought: If they're discounting the CogAT scores because they're worried about prepping, why not go the other direction and officially do some CogAT prepping for everyone in 2nd grade? All of the scores would be artificially high, but it would also even the playing field.

So interestingly, I asked the FCAG for an answer regarding how everything is weight. The president of that said that the GBRS is more heavily weighed than tests. She only mentioned Cogat and NNAT. She didnt't even mention how WISC is weighed. I truly think they discounted the WISC completely this year. Which is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

I think that the WISC is an outlier without any specific guidance or rules because only a small percentage of people submit a WISC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that the WISC is an outlier without any specific guidance or rules because only a small percentage of people submit a WISC.

Then why even suggest it? Why is that test recommended to submit by AAP board?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the WISC is an outlier without any specific guidance or rules because only a small percentage of people submit a WISC.

Then why even suggest it? Why is that test recommended to submit by AAP board?

DP. I think they're in the process of phasing out the WISC for FCPS AAP appeals. It, as well as appeals in general, were identified as a source of inequity in the AAP equity report, and I think they're planning on taking steps to remedy the inequity. You seem to have been caught in a transitional year, where they were not intending to use the WISC, but hadn't yet updated all of the recommendations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the WISC is an outlier without any specific guidance or rules because only a small percentage of people submit a WISC.

Then why even suggest it? Why is that test recommended to submit by AAP board?

DP. I think they're in the process of phasing out the WISC for FCPS AAP appeals. It, as well as appeals in general, were identified as a source of inequity in the AAP equity report, and I think they're planning on taking steps to remedy the inequity. You seem to have been caught in a transitional year, where they were not intending to use the WISC, but hadn't yet updated all of the recommendations.

The equity report recommended removing appeals and any parent provided information (questionnaire, work samples, letters of recommendation, WISC). They suggested this because families that are wealthier tend to be the ones who are providing the additional information, appeal, and provide WISCs. They create an even more uneven playing field.

They also recommended that every school should have an level IV program, a full time AART, and a stronger Level III program starting in third grade.

I think they suggested, but I cannot remember with 100% clarity, that each school should be pulling from its own student population for AAP and that the pool should include the kids in the top percentage for that particular school. So that a FARMs school, which will probably have lower test scores for a variety of reasons, will have a class that looks different then a school in McLean. This would address the racial discrepancies that we see in the program and allow for the AAP classes at each school to work with the kids that they have that are advanced, acknowledging that the kid who parents can afford enrichment programs and tutoring are going to be in a different place then the kids who cannot. And that those kids are highly likely to be at different schools.