Awful story on 20/20 about Small Smiles - torturing children

[Anonymous]

Jesus Christ. There are some whack-o loony birts on this board.

I hope that when you need care for something you could've prevented that you get one serious Mo-Fo of a doc to administer the treatment.

[Anonymous]

Not the 21:13 poster, but, yes, if the treatment is necessary, how is it torture?

My child screams bloody murder every time she gets a shot. She screams if we need to instill eye drops. Heck, sometimes she screams if I try to pick her nose.

Are shots considered torture?

Parents have choices. If you aren't comfortable with leaving your child alone with a dentist, or if the dentist wants to do 28 root canals on your child (who only has 20 teeth) then you should choose another dentist.

It is torture when the treatment is unnecessary and done without pain management, as was done by Small Smiles. But if you aren't convinced, give me your contact info. I'll gladly come over and strap you to a board and yank 3-4 teeth out of your mouth.

On another note . . . why are you picking your child's nose?

[Anonymous]

pp, does it have to be that extreme? No one is advocating torture. There are some practices that are considered reasonable. Kust because a child is yelling does not mean there is pain.
BTW, if someone wants to pick his/her child's nose, it is their business.

[Anonymous]

I will not allow use of drugs and he will outgrow his fear, but we need to get through the appointment.

You sure about that? Because I'm 35 and still have to take Valium to get my teeth cleaned because of all the work I had done on my teeth as a child - by a dentist who refused to believe I was in pain and refused to give me any more Novocaine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not the 21:13 poster, but, yes, if the treatment is necessary, how is it torture?

My child screams bloody murder every time she gets a shot. She screams if we need to instill eye drops. Heck, sometimes she screams if I try to pick her nose.

Are shots considered torture?

Parents have choices. If you aren't comfortable with leaving your child alone with a dentist, or if the dentist wants to do 28 root canals on your child (who only has 20 teeth) then you should choose another dentist.

It is torture when the treatment is unnecessary and done without pain management, as was done by Small Smiles. But if you aren't convinced, give me your contact info. I'll gladly come over and strap you to a board and yank 3-4 teeth out of your mouth.

On another note . . . why are you picking your child's nose?

You didn't answer the question. You just reiterated your same point.

My question is - How is it considered torture if it's a necessary treatment?

I'm agreeing that the kids shouldn't have a procedure if it's not necessary.

Do you have any kids? Did you go through labor or have a C-section? Did you scream, or were you in pain for any part of it? Was that torture?

If the kids had bad teeth, and needed root canals, it wasn't torture.

And, I do pick my nose, because sometimes the snot seems to interfere with her breathing, and I figure it's can't be comfortable having that big booger in there! Really? Do you never pick your kids' noses? Hmm... maybe I should leave them be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OHHH, I get it, blame everyone else. No one needs to take responsibility for anything. I did not say that the dentists were innocent. NOT.
But the parents need to take some responsibility.
I know someone who got really serious with his kids and tooth brushing after they got an $1800 bill for his two boys and their 11 cavities with no dental insurance.
Amazing how you take matters into your own hands when it's your wallet.

This is so true!

People (often people on Medicare) figure it'll be paid for by someone else, so who cares.

[Anonymous]

You didn't answer the question. You just reiterated your same point.

My question is - How is it considered torture if it's a necessary treatment?

I'm agreeing that the kids shouldn't have a procedure if it's not necessary.

Do you have any kids? Did you go through labor or have a C-section? Did you scream, or were you in pain for any part of it? Was that torture?

If the kids had bad teeth, and needed root canals, it wasn't torture.

And, I do pick my nose, because sometimes the snot seems to interfere with her breathing, and I figure it's can't be comfortable having that big booger in there! Really? Do you never pick your kids' noses? Hmm... maybe I should leave them be.

I didn't answer your question because it is irrelevant to this thread. Small Smiles was sued - and lost - because they were performing UNNECESSARY dental work on children. I don't think anyone in this conversation has a problem with medically necessary dental work. It is like having a thread about rape and a bunch of posters come in and start saying "well, if it was consensual, what is the problem?" The problem with Small Smiles is that they were found guilty of doing unnecessary medical procedures - often without pain management- on infants, toddlers, and small children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OHHH, I get it, blame everyone else. No one needs to take responsibility for anything. I did not say that the dentists were innocent. NOT.
But the parents need to take some responsibility.
I know someone who got really serious with his kids and tooth brushing after they got an $1800 bill for his two boys and their 11 cavities with no dental insurance.
Amazing how you take matters into your own hands when it's your wallet.



This is so true!

People (often people on Medicare) figure it'll be paid for by someone else, so who cares.

What are you even talking about? Small Smiles defrauded Medicaid. The Doctors told parents their children needed unnecessary dental work. I don't think the parents walked in there and racked up a big bill because Uncle Sam would pay for it - more likely Small Smiles doctors bullied parents into it. In some of the stories, Small Smiles doctors threatened to call protective services on the parents who refused their outlandish--and I'll say it again--unnecessary treatments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I will not allow use of drugs and he will outgrow his fear, but we need to get through the appointment.

You sure about that? Because I'm 35 and still have to take Valium to get my teeth cleaned because of all the work I had done on my teeth as a child - by a dentist who refused to believe I was in pain and refused to give me any more Novocaine.

Yes, sure. Anesthesia is dangerous, life is hard. He will grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I will not allow use of drugs and he will outgrow his fear, but we need to get through the appointment.



You sure about that? Because I'm 35 and still have to take Valium to get my teeth cleaned because of all the work I had done on my teeth as a child - by a dentist who refused to believe I was in pain and refused to give me any more Novocaine.




Yes, sure. Anesthesia is dangerous, life is hard. He will grow up.

Sorry, I didn't see the context of the original post - you don't allow drugs to calm fears during appointments (like sedation dentistry) or you don't allow pain medication during fillings, root canals, extractions, etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I will not allow use of drugs and he will outgrow his fear, but we need to get through the appointment.



You sure about that? Because I'm 35 and still have to take Valium to get my teeth cleaned because of all the work I had done on my teeth as a child - by a dentist who refused to believe I was in pain and refused to give me any more Novocaine.




Yes, sure. Anesthesia is dangerous, life is hard. He will grow up.

Sorry, I didn't see the context of the original post - you don't allow drugs to calm fears during appointments (like sedation dentistry) or you don't allow pain medication during fillings, root canals, extractions, etc?

He has never had a cavity. I am talking about a routine visit.

[Anonymous]

I agree - I wouldn't give my child medication just to get through a routine cleaning, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again . . . I don't think anyone has a problem with children needing fillings. Even if they need a full mouth of them. But multiple root canals on baby teeth? That is pure torture, and it should be illegal.

Anyone in the medical profession who watches this video and thinks the PARENTS are to blame for what the doctors are doing to these children is probably either just as unethical or at risk of being just as unethical.

I am not sure why multiple root canals should be illegal if they are necessary. The point that you might be trying to make is that doing unnecessary root canals should be illegal.

No one said that parents are to blame for what the dentists are doing, but the parents are to blame if a child has a mouthful of cavities. After they send the feds to nail the dentists, they should send a social worker to the family's home.

Lucky you if your child doesn't have cavities, but it is NOT always the parents' fault. I have a child who is genetically prone to cavities. We have taken excellent care of her teeth her whole life. She doesn't drink juice or eat excessive amounts of candy, was exclusively breastfed, etc. So go ahead, send a social worker to my house and I'll find a reason to send one to yours.

I'm sure your child was probably the one that made mine cry when he told her that she has silver teeth because she doesn't take care of her teeth. Thanks for the self-esteem boost for my child who has already been through so much with the constant dental work. I guess your family did well in the gene pool for teeth -- but perhaps not so well for intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Sugar and brushing are not the only things needed to prevent cavities. A child with a high fever in infancy that causes the emanel growth to stop is one problem and undernourished children is another. Even children with these problems should not be treated this way. Would you go have numerouse root canals in a day? I am sure you would not. I cannot belieive someone would blame the parents for these things and think it is ok to torture the children. Even Madoff wasn't his evil.

[Anonymous]

Sugar and brushing are not the only things needed to prevent cavities. A child with a high fever in infancy that causes the emanel growth to stop is one problem and undernourished children is another. Even children with these problems should not be treated this way. Would you go have numerouse root canals in a day? I am sure you would not. I cannot belieive someone would blame the parents for these things and think it is ok to torture the children. Even Madoff wasn't his evil.

Totally agree. I was stunned when it looked like a few posters were jumping in to defend these practices. Some admitted to being in the health care industry, and I can't help but suspect work for dental practices similar to Small Smiles. Anyone that thinks this type of behavior is acceptable - and finds a way to blame the parents! - has a screw loose.