Why are some schools putting EVERYONE into AIM and HIGH?

[Anonymous]

I agree that mid terms and cumulative finals need to come back in. Its fine if everyone or almost everyone is an advanced class BUT the class should not have the bar lowered just to accommodate kids who can not do the work.

Gate keeping IMO is wrong because it overlooks kids who don't test on standardized tests well but can thrive in an advanced class and kids who are willing to work harder than their peers to succeed in an advanced class. My private high school was a mix of 99.999% kids and legacy kids that had a much broader range. Some of the legacy kids were simply C/D students that just hung on but others worked twice as hard as their more intellectually gifted peers and in many classes ended up doing better because they never expected it to be easy. I saw the same thing in college.

The key is not to lower the standards and workloads and do rigorous in class testing and grading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone explain why schools are doing this?
This defeats the whole purpose of the local enrichment MCPS is purportedly offering, undermines the basis of the "peer group" criteria being used for magnet admissions, and bolsters the complaints that have been filed.

Because they want everyone to aim high.

They are doing it because fighting entitled parents is exhausting.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that mid terms and cumulative finals need to come back in. Its fine if everyone or almost everyone is an advanced class BUT the class should not have the bar lowered just to accommodate kids who can not do the work.

Gate keeping IMO is wrong because it overlooks kids who don't test on standardized tests well but can thrive in an advanced class and kids who are willing to work harder than their peers to succeed in an advanced class. My private high school was a mix of 99.999% kids and legacy kids that had a much broader range. Some of the legacy kids were simply C/D students that just hung on but others worked twice as hard as their more intellectually gifted peers and in many classes ended up doing better because they never expected it to be easy. I saw the same thing in college.

The key is not to lower the standards and workloads and do rigorous in class testing and grading.

I think MCPS middle school is already plenty rigorous. My child consistently has 2 hours of homework every day, and throughout this year (7th) there are quizzes pretty consistently 2 x per week. On quiz days, there have always been at least 2. Today, for example, there are 3. There are County written cumulative quarterly assessments in math, and semester assessments in English. The algebra teacher has a quiz on every topic in the unit, and this helps prepare for the formative for the unit, which is usually 3 or 4 topics. The quizzes serve to point out weaknesses for the formative.

If you're clamoring for midterms and finals that are cumulative, you must have a child with a great memory, who is a strong test taker. Not all kids are. Test taking is not a life skill. Hard work and study skills - yes - actual test performance, not so much. There are only 45 minutes in a class period, and some kids are slower. In our day, we were penalized for being slow. That doesn't work if you are actually wanting kids to be deep thinkers and problem solvers. In my opinion, based on my experience in our school, Middle School in MCPS is already too heavy on the testing. I would love to see more project based work, more collaboration in groups. Not all this old school sit and listen to the teacher, practice the skill, do a test business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that mid terms and cumulative finals need to come back in. Its fine if everyone or almost everyone is an advanced class BUT the class should not have the bar lowered just to accommodate kids who can not do the work.

Gate keeping IMO is wrong because it overlooks kids who don't test on standardized tests well but can thrive in an advanced class and kids who are willing to work harder than their peers to succeed in an advanced class. My private high school was a mix of 99.999% kids and legacy kids that had a much broader range. Some of the legacy kids were simply C/D students that just hung on but others worked twice as hard as their more intellectually gifted peers and in many classes ended up doing better because they never expected it to be easy. I saw the same thing in college.

The key is not to lower the standards and workloads and do rigorous in class testing and grading.

I think MCPS middle school is already plenty rigorous. My child consistently has 2 hours of homework every day, and throughout this year (7th) there are quizzes pretty consistently 2 x per week. On quiz days, there have always been at least 2. Today, for example, there are 3. There are County written cumulative quarterly assessments in math, and semester assessments in English. The algebra teacher has a quiz on every topic in the unit, and this helps prepare for the formative for the unit, which is usually 3 or 4 topics. The quizzes serve to point out weaknesses for the formative.

If you're clamoring for midterms and finals that are cumulative, you must have a child with a great memory, who is a strong test taker. Not all kids are. Test taking is not a life skill. Hard work and study skills - yes - actual test performance, not so much. There are only 45 minutes in a class period, and some kids are slower. In our day, we were penalized for being slow. That doesn't work if you are actually wanting kids to be deep thinkers and problem solvers. In my opinion, based on my experience in our school, Middle School in MCPS is already too heavy on the testing. I would love to see more project based work, more collaboration in groups. Not all this old school sit and listen to the teacher, practice the skill, do a test business.

My kid may have an hour tops of homework a day. Mostly 30min or so. I find that middle school is way too easy and doesn't prepare them for high school. And MCPS high school absolutely does not prepare them for college.

That said, any high school level class should have midterms and finals. So Algebra 1 and higher for sure.

[Anonymous]

Can someone explain to me what is so bad about tracking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain to me what is so bad about tracking? [/quote


Districts don't like it because it exposes (visually and data wise) the achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain to me what is so bad about tracking?

Because for the most part it shows whites and asians in top classes and other minorities in the lower classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear Pyle is all HIGH.

You heard right.

Yes, but they put the higher scoring kids in the same class so they share a cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain to me what is so bad about tracking?

Because for the most part it shows whites and asians in top classes and other minorities in the lower classes.

Well, sort of. It wasn't just the optics, it was the sense that tracking was keeping kids with potential from accessing that potential because it basically perpetuated privilege. So, if Larla showed up in kindergarten already reading, she was placed in the "advanced" track and just continued along from there. But Larlo only went to half-day Head Start and came in without the same literacy skills even though he had equal intelligence and potential. He was tracked into the remedial group. Over time, Larla's advantages were just perpetuated and there was no "on ramp" for a kid like Larlo to access his potential.

But that's neither here nor there in this case. The only schools of which I'm aware offering AIM and HIGH for all are Pyle and Hoover. That's just about parents, not achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I agree that mid terms and cumulative finals need to come back in. Its fine if everyone or almost everyone is an advanced class BUT the class should not have the bar lowered just to accommodate kids who can not do the work.

Gate keeping IMO is wrong because it overlooks kids who don't test on standardized tests well but can thrive in an advanced class and kids who are willing to work harder than their peers to succeed in an advanced class. My private high school was a mix of 99.999% kids and legacy kids that had a much broader range. Some of the legacy kids were simply C/D students that just hung on but others worked twice as hard as their more intellectually gifted peers and in many classes ended up doing better because they never expected it to be easy. I saw the same thing in college.

The key is not to lower the standards and workloads and do rigorous in class testing and grading.


I think MCPS middle school is already plenty rigorous. My child consistently has 2 hours of homework every day, and throughout this year (7th) there are quizzes pretty consistently 2 x per week. On quiz days, there have always been at least 2. Today, for example, there are 3. There are County written cumulative quarterly assessments in math, and semester assessments in English. The algebra teacher has a quiz on every topic in the unit, and this helps prepare for the formative for the unit, which is usually 3 or 4 topics. The quizzes serve to point out weaknesses for the formative.

If you're clamoring for midterms and finals that are cumulative, you must have a child with a great memory, who is a strong test taker. Not all kids are. Test taking is not a life skill. Hard work and study skills - yes - actual test performance, not so much. There are only 45 minutes in a class period, and some kids are slower. In our day, we were penalized for being slow. That doesn't work if you are actually wanting kids to be deep thinkers and problem solvers. In my opinion, based on my experience in our school, Middle School in MCPS is already too heavy on the testing. I would love to see more project based work, more collaboration in groups. Not all this old school sit and listen to the teacher, practice the skill, do a test business.

No I have 3 kids and one has ADHD/slow processing. You WANT your ADHD/slow processing kid to get experience taking cumulative exams in middle school. If you move most high schools systems snd almost all colleges give cumulative exams. Middle school is the time to learn how to organize yourself, reflect back on the material, parse what is important and what isn't, and pull it all together for a cumulative exam. It is tough for kids who struggle with executive functioning and they need as much practice before the grades really count as they can get. Also bombing cumulative exams in middle school can help you figure out what supports are necessary and work for your child BEFORE they get to high school.

For kids without LD, cumulative exams are just as important. MCPS is not set up for deeper thinking. The curriculum incentivizes kids to regurgitate what they memorized from the teacher within the previous few days or weeks. They memorize enough to do well on the quiz and many promptly forget. Cumulative exams, especially ones with good essay questions measure mastery of the material and the preparation for them in itself helps kids master the material. Its a huge mistake to not give them.

MCPS likes not doing exams because its less to grade and it keeps parents quiet because there are tons of kids getting As and Bs who don't really leave the class knowing the material. Parents just like seeing the good grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree that mid terms and cumulative finals need to come back in. Its fine if everyone or almost everyone is an advanced class BUT the class should not have the bar lowered just to accommodate kids who can not do the work.

Gate keeping IMO is wrong because it overlooks kids who don't test on standardized tests well but can thrive in an advanced class and kids who are willing to work harder than their peers to succeed in an advanced class. My private high school was a mix of 99.999% kids and legacy kids that had a much broader range. Some of the legacy kids were simply C/D students that just hung on but others worked twice as hard as their more intellectually gifted peers and in many classes ended up doing better because they never expected it to be easy. I saw the same thing in college.

The key is not to lower the standards and workloads and do rigorous in class testing and grading.


I think MCPS middle school is already plenty rigorous. My child consistently has 2 hours of homework every day, and throughout this year (7th) there are quizzes pretty consistently 2 x per week. On quiz days, there have always been at least 2. Today, for example, there are 3. There are County written cumulative quarterly assessments in math, and semester assessments in English. The algebra teacher has a quiz on every topic in the unit, and this helps prepare for the formative for the unit, which is usually 3 or 4 topics. The quizzes serve to point out weaknesses for the formative.

If you're clamoring for midterms and finals that are cumulative, you must have a child with a great memory, who is a strong test taker. Not all kids are. Test taking is not a life skill. Hard work and study skills - yes - actual test performance, not so much. There are only 45 minutes in a class period, and some kids are slower. In our day, we were penalized for being slow. That doesn't work if you are actually wanting kids to be deep thinkers and problem solvers. In my opinion, based on my experience in our school, Middle School in MCPS is already too heavy on the testing. I would love to see more project based work, more collaboration in groups. Not all this old school sit and listen to the teacher, practice the skill, do a test business.

No I have 3 kids and one has ADHD/slow processing. You WANT your ADHD/slow processing kid to get experience taking cumulative exams in middle school. If you move most high schools systems snd almost all colleges give cumulative exams. Middle school is the time to learn how to organize yourself, reflect back on the material, parse what is important and what isn't, and pull it all together for a cumulative exam. It is tough for kids who struggle with executive functioning and they need as much practice before the grades really count as they can get. Also bombing cumulative exams in middle school can help you figure out what supports are necessary and work for your child BEFORE they get to high school.

For kids without LD, cumulative exams are just as important. MCPS is not set up for deeper thinking. The curriculum incentivizes kids to regurgitate what they memorized from the teacher within the previous few days or weeks. They memorize enough to do well on the quiz and many promptly forget. Cumulative exams, especially ones with good essay questions measure mastery of the material and the preparation for them in itself helps kids master the material. Its a huge mistake to not give them.

MCPS likes not doing exams because its less to grade and it keeps parents quiet because there are tons of kids getting As and Bs who don't really leave the class knowing the material. Parents just like seeing the good grades.

I value your perspective, however, is there more value to a LD/ADHD student in long-form memorization vs. short? Isn't the penchant for memorization and regurgitation THE problem whether the test is long and cumulative or short?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain to me what is so bad about tracking?

Because for the most part it shows whites and asians in top classes and other minorities in the lower classes.

Showing where someone is placed by a guidance counselor or parent request does not show if they actually belong there. I’ve taught white and Asian magnet students who were struggling unproductively, but were not allowed to leave our program. And I’ve taught black and brown students in on level who belonged in Honors, but were told it was “full”. Meanwhile, my friend who teaches in a nearly all-white public school in AL says tracking is bad for her lower income white students because they are stuck in boring, meaningless classes for four years. The naturally bright ones can’t get the prerequisite skills to move out to college prep and the average ones don’t even know what they are missing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I agree that mid terms and cumulative finals need to come back in. Its fine if everyone or almost everyone is an advanced class BUT the class should not have the bar lowered just to accommodate kids who can not do the work.

Gate keeping IMO is wrong because it overlooks kids who don't test on standardized tests well but can thrive in an advanced class and kids who are willing to work harder than their peers to succeed in an advanced class. My private high school was a mix of 99.999% kids and legacy kids that had a much broader range. Some of the legacy kids were simply C/D students that just hung on but others worked twice as hard as their more intellectually gifted peers and in many classes ended up doing better because they never expected it to be easy. I saw the same thing in college.

The key is not to lower the standards and workloads and do rigorous in class testing and grading.


I think MCPS middle school is already plenty rigorous. My child consistently has 2 hours of homework every day, and throughout this year (7th) there are quizzes pretty consistently 2 x per week. On quiz days, there have always been at least 2. Today, for example, there are 3. There are County written cumulative quarterly assessments in math, and semester assessments in English. The algebra teacher has a quiz on every topic in the unit, and this helps prepare for the formative for the unit, which is usually 3 or 4 topics. The quizzes serve to point out weaknesses for the formative.

If you're clamoring for midterms and finals that are cumulative, you must have a child with a great memory, who is a strong test taker. Not all kids are. Test taking is not a life skill. Hard work and study skills - yes - actual test performance, not so much. There are only 45 minutes in a class period, and some kids are slower. In our day, we were penalized for being slow. That doesn't work if you are actually wanting kids to be deep thinkers and problem solvers. In my opinion, based on my experience in our school, Middle School in MCPS is already too heavy on the testing. I would love to see more project based work, more collaboration in groups. Not all this old school sit and listen to the teacher, practice the skill, do a test business.


No I have 3 kids and one has ADHD/slow processing. You WANT your ADHD/slow processing kid to get experience taking cumulative exams in middle school. If you move most high schools systems snd almost all colleges give cumulative exams. Middle school is the time to learn how to organize yourself, reflect back on the material, parse what is important and what isn't, and pull it all together for a cumulative exam. It is tough for kids who struggle with executive functioning and they need as much practice before the grades really count as they can get. Also bombing cumulative exams in middle school can help you figure out what supports are necessary and work for your child BEFORE they get to high school.

For kids without LD, cumulative exams are just as important. MCPS is not set up for deeper thinking. The curriculum incentivizes kids to regurgitate what they memorized from the teacher within the previous few days or weeks. They memorize enough to do well on the quiz and many promptly forget. Cumulative exams, especially ones with good essay questions measure mastery of the material and the preparation for them in itself helps kids master the material. Its a huge mistake to not give them.

MCPS likes not doing exams because its less to grade and it keeps parents quiet because there are tons of kids getting As and Bs who don't really leave the class knowing the material. Parents just like seeing the good grades.


I value your perspective, however, is there more value to a LD/ADHD student in long-form memorization vs. short? Isn't the penchant for memorization and regurgitation THE problem whether the test is long and cumulative or short?[code]

Cumulative exams are not about long form memorization. You can't memorize everything the teacher did over the course of a year. You need to develop executive functioning skills to determine what to study. In addition, reviewing the entirety of the material also emphasizes the interconnectedness of the material. It also requires that kids learn material that they may have missed. Let's say you bomb a quiz on one small section of math or a chapter. If you are never tested on this again you will never learn what you missed. Having a cumulative exam requires all kids to go back and catch what they missed. Studying what you got wrong on a quiz to study for an exam is a very effective tool and probably the only time a kid is going to think deeply about what they got wrong.

[Anonymous]

They didn’t get rid of exams because they were too hard to grade. They got rid of them because too many kids failed them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They didn’t get rid of exams because they were too hard to grade. They got rid of them because too many kids failed them.

Exactly. 60-70% were bombing it.