WaPo: What Happened when Brooklyn tried to Integrated its Middle Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only negative I saw in that article was the bigot who pulled his kid from school because he assumes poor kids are dumb and unwilling to work hard. The school is probably better off without his family, though.

Did you read the part about the mom having to accompany the girls on the subway. That the school bus did not come for four days?

While not good...once the problem was fixed, it was fixed. It is not a reason to end the program.

Particularly since it was a lottery program to begin with- the busing was not new presumably.

[Anonymous]

If you've ever worked in a school, you know that it's the level of the students that determines the level of the school and the education they get, and the level of the students is determined, on average, by the priority their families place on education and by the resources they are able and willing to contribute.

Over time, the integrated schools will simply settle at that level, whatever it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a student who was bused to desegregate schools in 1970s, I would say a plus of the adventure was getting to have friends from different backgrounds. However, I would say all of us received a sub-optimal education -- particularly in middle school. I think an education is more important -- and the county's money would be better spent in offering private tutoring and bypassing the 'phone it in' teaching/poor curriculum that's offered here.

In the end, I think MCPS is hell bent of forgetting the law of unintended consequences and are going to go with a more extreme plan. In that case, MCPS schools are more likely to end up like S.F. -- more segregated: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/us/san-francisco-school-segregation.html

My personal opinion? Rockville really wants to cover up for results of Curriculum 2.0 disaster by changing the subject and making themselves look like social justice heroes. The generation who were first given this crap is currently in 7th grade and heading into high school where they will take the SATs and the true effect would be revealed if it weren't for this distraction.

agree on all accounts however MCPS is on its way to becoming like Los Angeles Public Schools, not SF. Unclear if charter schools will stop the good performer flight or not, like it did for DC and L.A.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it seems like the good news is that it gave alot of poorer and disadvantaged students access to higher performing schools.

The bad news is that almost every wealthy kid who was zoned to a lower performing school opted out. So long run, unless you can figure out a way to get wealthy families to willingly go to these schools, all you are doing is creating greater competition for limited seats in good schools while not actually improving the educational opportunities at poorer schools.

So how do you actually create buy-in? Move a very large cohort of wealthier students with the hope that enough of them will go? Create specialty programs? Only offer certain sought-after programs at these schools? I don't know what it would take.

NP. My kids are in Elementary in Brooklyn's District 15, where the two Middle Schools featured in the article are located. I have friends (poor, Middle Class, and Upper Middle Class of all races) with 5th Grade kids in our school who are currently going through the Middle School application process.

From what I am seeing, hearing anecdotally, and reading, all but 2 of the Middle Schools in D15 are good and most are outstanding. Dewey and another Sunset Park school, however, are extremely low performing. The families I know don't have those schools on their list (you are allowed to apply to a maximum of 12 schools, and these families are rounding out their lists with Citywide or out-of-district schools). All of the families that I'm in touch with would be very happy with any of their top 3 picks, and satisfied with any of the rest. They would be very unhappy, maybe fleeing to charters or private, if they got a school that wasn't even on their list, like Dewey or Sunset Park Prep (I think that's the name).

I would be, too. My DH is a public school teacher and has told me how frustrating and guilt-inducing it was to have a classroom full of low achieving students with a smattering of very bright and high achieving ones -- he had to spend all of his efforts pulling the bottom ones up and didn't really have enough time to give the top ones extra. Our kids are very bright and motivated; it would kill me to put them in a classroom where they'd basically be ignored and not pushed or, worse, leaned on hard by the teacher like an assistant to help the other students (which, anecdotally, I have heard about).

I'm also friends with a number of families with African-American 5th Graders in our school. The parents are getting involved in organizations that help prep kids for entry into private schools (e.g., Prep for Prep). These are the bright and motivated kids from involved families who used to bring up the achievement stats in segregated Middle Schools. Many of them are leaving the public school system in 6th Grade for privates, who value these students for adding diversity to their ads and brochures (to be cynical about it).

All this is to say that I don't think the D15 MC and UMC families will exit the public school system if they get a matched with one of their picks. If they get the bottom schools, ones not even on their lists, however, they might.

Thanks for sharing. I'm curious (and you may not know) why AA families with 5th graders are moving to privates. It seems like, being a priority group, their kids would have a good shot at getting into the higher performing/desirable public middle schools, no?

I'm the PP. I'm thinking it's because they think that certain private Middle Schools would give their kids a leg up in terms of the quality of the education, smaller class sizes, excellent facilities, and exmissions to top High Schools and elite colleges. And if they get in and stay thru High School (if the private has a HS), they can bypass the crazy public HS admissions process.

BTW, here's an article from a local newsletter about how the diversity plan has affected enrollment, looking at socio-economic group and race. Looks like it's been successful at all of the D15 Middle Schools except Dewey and Sunset Park Prep (too large a percentage of students who are from low-income families, are learning English as a new language, or are homeless) and Park Slope Collegiate (not enough of those students): https://brooklynbridgeparents.com/signs-of-success-for-district-15s-middle-school-admissions-changes/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you've ever worked in a school, you know that it's the level of the students that determines the level of the school and the education they get, and the level of the students is determined, on average, by the priority their families place on education and by the resources they are able and willing to contribute.

Over time, the integrated schools will simply settle at that level, whatever it is.

You spelled "genetics" wrong.

[Anonymous]

That article had very little substance for all those words.

Here's an example of a serious paper writing about school integration:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-mississippi-an-unlikely-model-for-school-desegregation-11574424004?mod=cxrecs_join#cxrecs_s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That article had very little substance for all those words.

Here's an example of a serious paper writing about school integration:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-mississippi-an-unlikely-model-for-school-desegregation-11574424004?mod=cxrecs_join#cxrecs_s

Interesting article and a creative approach. However most districts doing this are under 5k in student population and I would guess that those who are larger aren't larger by much.

[Anonymous]

There's a Russian fable about animals who decided to create a band, and kept changing seats in hopes that would make their music sound good. Take your guess whether it worked. It is the same thing with the achievement gap and shoving kids around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are no academic results yet, the forced diversity only started last year or this year. And most overperformers assigned to underperforming schools left the system.

As for the rest:

Have the underperformers now become more proficient in math and English (or whatever else subject matter is tested)?

Are the overperformers still over performing to the same degree?

It seems to be working out well for most everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seemed like the article was mostly about the social adjustments that the kids were making and how the parents were handling it. There wasn’t much yet on how the students were faring academically in the new environments. As such, it is a story that cries out for a follow up in a year or two before anyone tries to assert it’s a relevant precedent for any other jurisdiction.

Interested to see a follow up in 1 year, 3, 5, and 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seemed like the article was mostly about the social adjustments that the kids were making and how the parents were handling it. There wasn’t much yet on how the students were faring academically in the new environments. As such, it is a story that cries out for a follow up in a year or two before anyone tries to assert it’s a relevant precedent for any other jurisdiction.

Interested to see a follow up in 1 year, 3, 5, and 10 years.

Yes. There is almost always a "halo" effect the first year or so of a study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you've ever worked in a school, you know that it's the level of the students that determines the level of the school and the education they get, and the level of the students is determined, on average, by the priority their families place on education and by the resources they are able and willing to contribute.

Over time, the integrated schools will simply settle at that level, whatever it is.

You spelled "genetics" wrong.

To be fair, the priority that their families place on education is also the result of genetics, so he's sort of right.

[Anonymous]

I read the first paragraphs and thought immediately "I can't believe anyone thought this would work."