Talk me out of building a home

[Anonymous]

NP here: for those of you who built their own homes, all said and done, roughly how much did it end up costing you per sqft? I am in Bethesda and considering doing this..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here: for those of you who built their own homes, all said and done, roughly how much did it end up costing you per sqft? I am in Bethesda and considering doing this..

It's hard to say for sure because a lot of it is going into upgrades. I built 5000 square feet for $850k + $600k for the lot.

[Anonymous]

NP here--we are starting on this journey ourselves. Decided to build after finding that it really hard to find a home with wheelchair accessibility/guest bedroom & bath on the first floor for grandparents that stay with us (or would like to) a couple of months each year.

Found the lot zoned for schools we liked, found an architect and developed plans, and now on to interviewing builders. So we haven't hit the really busy time yet--but we did go with an architect who will act as project manager for us. Having watched friends and family build, its so important to continually visit the site and check on builders. Even the good ones. With two little kids and demanding jobs, there's no way we'll be able to do that.

So, we shall we. Hopefully everyone survives this process intact!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No matter what you bed to be there every day to make sure the workers are doing it the right way. We did this to avoid ugle bulk heads, make sure all rooms and closets have HVAC vents, where the hose sigot goes, outlets, etc.. lots of decisions need to be made and I'd you are not there the workers will just do whatever

+ 1. Even though I was there a lot, I'm still finding things that aren't quite right and it's too late to change some of them. Like why was this outlet put there instead of lined up symmetrically? Builder just gave me a blank stare.

Are there no competent builders?

I don't know. I'd like to think there are, but I interviewed a LOT of builders, chose the one that seemed best, and still ran into a lot of problems.

The problem is that the house is built by subcontractors, not by your actual builder. Some of the subs are shockingly bad. I can evaluate some of their work, like paint, but don't have the skills to evaluate things like electrical.

A really key thing is how much time your actual builder spends on site supervising the subs. In our experience with our own build and after interviewing many other builders, most do not spend must time on site. And therein lies the problem - crappy subs with minimal supervision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Building with a production builder such as NVHomes, Toll, etc is very different vs. hiring your architect and a firm to complete the project. IMO, it is only worth it if you do full custom as you are in the driver's seat in terms of material selection, design, and of course the quality of the people constructing the place. As others have stated, it will cost more but if you have the budget , patience, and plan to stay at the place for some time, well worth the effort.

+1. What OP describes is like building in a development with a stock builder. That’s not really custom.

Well, frankly, if I could build with Toll or NV, I would! Unfortunately they don’t build on individual lots, and there are no new home developments near my preferred location. I am looking for a similar experience with a semi-custom builder. I am willing to invest a bit more time on floorplan and finishes than I did with Toll, but again, I don’t want to be on the site every day micromanaging the workers.

If you are going to go through the trouble of purchasing your own lot, don't bother going with the low grade production builders, which includes NV Homes, etc. Get a reputable custom builder - they are out there. If you like NV Homes, etc, then it is far easier, less stressful, and cost effective to go into one of their communities, pick a lot, and have them prop up the box you want - with you selections of course.

[Anonymous]

There was a similar thread a couple of weeks ago. I responded on it and will try to pull it up. We did this and would NEVER DO IT AGAIN. Nightmare. I bow to the people who do it and willingly do it again.

[Anonymous]

DW and I are in the midst of building a custom home in Vienna. It’s definitely highly stressful and we haven’t even broken ground yet. We are about 15% over budget which is making me very nervous...

One question I had: for those who hired a designer, how much did you pay them? DW is getting overwhelmed with all the selections and given that we are over budget already we are hesitant in adding even mire cost by hiring a designer to help us with the selections (i.e., light fixtures, kitchen colors/tile/etc).

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Building with a production builder such as NVHomes, Toll, etc is very different vs. hiring your architect and a firm to complete the project. IMO, it is only worth it if you do full custom as you are in the driver's seat in terms of material selection, design, and of course the quality of the people constructing the place. As others have stated, it will cost more but if you have the budget , patience, and plan to stay at the place for some time, well worth the effort.

+1. What OP describes is like building in a development with a stock builder. That’s not really custom.

Well, frankly, if I could build with Toll or NV, I would! Unfortunately they don’t build on individual lots, and there are no new home developments near my preferred location. I am looking for a similar experience with a semi-custom builder. I am willing to invest a bit more time on floorplan and finishes than I did with Toll, but again, I don’t want to be on the site every day micromanaging the workers.

If you are going to go through the trouble of purchasing your own lot, don't bother going with the low grade production builders, which includes NV Homes, etc. Get a reputable custom builder - they are out there. If you like NV Homes, etc, then it is far easier, less stressful, and cost effective to go into one of their communities, pick a lot, and have them prop up the box you want - with you selections of course.

I would love to do that, but there are no communities near where I want to live. Only teardowns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DW and I are in the midst of building a custom home in Vienna. It’s definitely highly stressful and we haven’t even broken ground yet. We are about 15% over budget which is making me very nervous...

One question I had: for those who hired a designer, how much did you pay them? DW is getting overwhelmed with all the selections and given that we are over budget already we are hesitant in adding even mire cost by hiring a designer to help us with the selections (i.e., light fixtures, kitchen colors/tile/etc).

Thanks.

Curious, why are you already that much over budget before the finishes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DW and I are in the midst of building a custom home in Vienna. It’s definitely highly stressful and we haven’t even broken ground yet. We are about 15% over budget which is making me very nervous...

One question I had: for those who hired a designer, how much did you pay them? DW is getting overwhelmed with all the selections and given that we are over budget already we are hesitant in adding even mire cost by hiring a designer to help us with the selections (i.e., light fixtures, kitchen colors/tile/etc).

Thanks.

Curious, why are you already that much over budget before the finishes?

When I said over budget, that includes some of the finishes/options, like appliance budget, flooring. Mainly because we went about 250 sq ft over, as well as adding a covered rear porch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DW and I are in the midst of building a custom home in Vienna. It’s definitely highly stressful and we haven’t even broken ground yet. We are about 15% over budget which is making me very nervous...

One question I had: for those who hired a designer, how much did you pay them? DW is getting overwhelmed with all the selections and given that we are over budget already we are hesitant in adding even mire cost by hiring a designer to help us with the selections (i.e., light fixtures, kitchen colors/tile/etc).

Thanks.

Curious, why are you already that much over budget before the finishes?

When I said over budget, that includes some of the finishes/options, like appliance budget, flooring. Mainly because we went about 250 sq ft over, as well as adding a covered rear porch.

PP building a house in Bethesda. I spent $10k on mine. It sounds like a lot but she puts in SOOO much time, probably 5-10 hours a week which is just as much as I do. She also helps me stay in my budget and lets me know what to upgrade and what not to upgrade. I figure since she is better at seeing the big picture that I will replace less when I move in and the finishes will last me 10+ years before I get sick of them. Jeff has her contact info if you want to email him, just refer to this post. She's based out of Falls Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Building with a production builder such as NVHomes, Toll, etc is very different vs. hiring your architect and a firm to complete the project. IMO, it is only worth it if you do full custom as you are in the driver's seat in terms of material selection, design, and of course the quality of the people constructing the place. As others have stated, it will cost more but if you have the budget , patience, and plan to stay at the place for some time, well worth the effort.

+1. What OP describes is like building in a development with a stock builder. That’s not really custom.

Well, frankly, if I could build with Toll or NV, I would! Unfortunately they don’t build on individual lots, and there are no new home developments near my preferred location. I am looking for a similar experience with a semi-custom builder. I am willing to invest a bit more time on floorplan and finishes than I did with Toll, but again, I don’t want to be on the site every day micromanaging the workers.

One of the large builders is starting to do this, but there are many, many smaller builders that do "build on your own lot" that end up with a hybrid approach. It ends up being semi-custom - you have to pick from their floor plans but can customize (mostly finishes) within that.

I built a custom home about 5 years ago - bought lot, selected builder, architect, design, finishes, etc. I'd say it was a 20% cost premium to a house we could have purchased from a builder. One nice thing you can do with custom is to stop the builder from doing all the little things they do to jack up their profit - cheaper AC units, windows, insulation, etc. The challenge is that for most builders, even custom, is that if it's not visible, they go for the cheapest thing they can get. A pretty Nest thermostat on the cheapest HVAC equipment, as an example. You have to do your own research and watch them or things like that will slip in everywhere.

Second this...The primary reason we custom built our home from scratch was not necessarily to build something unique or personal but to simply build a superior quality home and flush out all of the garbage low quality materials that most all of the the production or semi-production builders use. Most of these materials are hidden and the builders are savvy enough to get away with it. Unlike most homeowners, our focus was to upgrade the "guts" of the home to include major components such as hvac, plumbing, electrical, insulation, roofing, exterior cladding, gutters, concrete, grading, driveway, etc, etc. As one of the PPs stated, full custom allows one to control quality of materials.

I was the PP above.

I spec'd every detail I could - type of insulation, windows, exterior and interior doors, HVAC equipment, back up generator, floor finish. It was a tremendous amount of research. And if they were doing something out of spec during the build, I would have the builder pull it out and redo it. For example, someone had jumped the gun and put in dry wall before the backup generator was installed. They were getting ready to install the generator like it was a retrofit. I made them destroy the drywall job to install the generator properly. It was in the plans, and there was no excuse for doing it half assed. That said, you need to be on site frequently and you need to be vocal when your plans are not being built. Typical builder will adjust to the mistakes that are made along the way and end up with a build that is "mostly" your design - if you allow that to happen, you don't get your design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t build a home.

Whew. Thanks. That was close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Building with a production builder such as NVHomes, Toll, etc is very different vs. hiring your architect and a firm to complete the project. IMO, it is only worth it if you do full custom as you are in the driver's seat in terms of material selection, design, and of course the quality of the people constructing the place. As others have stated, it will cost more but if you have the budget , patience, and plan to stay at the place for some time, well worth the effort.

+1. What OP describes is like building in a development with a stock builder. That’s not really custom.

Well, frankly, if I could build with Toll or NV, I would! Unfortunately they don’t build on individual lots, and there are no new home developments near my preferred location. I am looking for a similar experience with a semi-custom builder. I am willing to invest a bit more time on floorplan and finishes than I did with Toll, but again, I don’t want to be on the site every day micromanaging the workers.

One of the large builders is starting to do this, but there are many, many smaller builders that do "build on your own lot" that end up with a hybrid approach. It ends up being semi-custom - you have to pick from their floor plans but can customize (mostly finishes) within that.

I built a custom home about 5 years ago - bought lot, selected builder, architect, design, finishes, etc. I'd say it was a 20% cost premium to a house we could have purchased from a builder. One nice thing you can do with custom is to stop the builder from doing all the little things they do to jack up their profit - cheaper AC units, windows, insulation, etc. The challenge is that for most builders, even custom, is that if it's not visible, they go for the cheapest thing they can get. A pretty Nest thermostat on the cheapest HVAC equipment, as an example. You have to do your own research and watch them or things like that will slip in everywhere.

Second this...The primary reason we custom built our home from scratch was not necessarily to build something unique or personal but to simply build a superior quality home and flush out all of the garbage low quality materials that most all of the the production or semi-production builders use. Most of these materials are hidden and the builders are savvy enough to get away with it. Unlike most homeowners, our focus was to upgrade the "guts" of the home to include major components such as hvac, plumbing, electrical, insulation, roofing, exterior cladding, gutters, concrete, grading, driveway, etc, etc. As one of the PPs stated, full custom allows one to control quality of materials.

I was the PP above.

I spec'd every detail I could - type of insulation, windows, exterior and interior doors, HVAC equipment, back up generator, floor finish. It was a tremendous amount of research. And if they were doing something out of spec during the build, I would have the builder pull it out and redo it. For example, someone had jumped the gun and put in dry wall before the backup generator was installed. They were getting ready to install the generator like it was a retrofit. I made them destroy the drywall job to install the generator properly. It was in the plans, and there was no excuse for doing it half assed. That said, you need to be on site frequently and you need to be vocal when your plans are not being built. Typical builder will adjust to the mistakes that are made along the way and end up with a build that is "mostly" your design - if you allow that to happen, you don't get your design.

OP you need to have some faith in the quality of your builder. I didn't need to research the insulation because my builder only builds a good home. Same thing with the windows and HVAC. I just trust they aren't junk, especially because I interviewed a few of his previous clients and they had no complaints. He tells us what finishes are preselected with a budget. A lot of it is traditional - not my style so we went to the company website and picked out the modern style. It makes things much less complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
No matter what you bed to be there every day to make sure the workers are doing it the right way. We did this to avoid ugle bulk heads, make sure all rooms and closets have HVAC vents, where the hose sigot goes, outlets, etc.. lots of decisions need to be made and I'd you are not there the workers will just do whatever


+ 1. Even though I was there a lot, I'm still finding things that aren't quite right and it's too late to change some of them. Like why was this outlet put there instead of lined up symmetrically? Builder just gave me a blank stare.


Are there no competent builders?


I don't know. I'd like to think there are, but I interviewed a LOT of builders, chose the one that seemed best, and still ran into a lot of problems.

The problem is that the house is built by subcontractors, not by your actual builder. Some of the subs are shockingly bad. I can evaluate some of their work, like paint, but don't have the skills to evaluate things like electrical.

A really key thing is how much time your actual builder spends on site supervising the subs. In our experience with our own build and after interviewing many other builders, most do not spend must time on site. And therein lies the problem - crappy subs with minimal supervision.

This exactly.