Science pathways

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our school, the most competitive science oriented students double up on Honors Bio and Honors Chem in 9th. This is in an effort to get all of the AP Science classes in before graduation. AP Chemistry double period can be done sophomore year, then AP Bio (Senior Preference) and AP Physics C can be slotted in depending on availability and math level.

I think the problem here is that, other than magnet students, kids are not encouraged to take the double science course their freshman year. In fact, a lot of kids are actively discouraged from taking it and encouraged to take a full year of PE instead.

It also requires parents and students to understand that the double science period freshman year is the only way to be in a science class with other motivated students, since the "Honors" Biology course includes a bunch of kids who are on the slowest possible science path and just hit honors biology junior year.

Basically, it's another case kids and families need to do their own research and can't accept the recommendations coming into course selection.

As usual, schools with large cohort of highly acadet students will recommend double science first year, while schools with smaller cohorts won't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes there's movement from Honors Chem to Chem.

MCPS should have another level of Chemistry:
Chem-slower paced
ChemA-medium paced
HonorsChem-faster paced

APChem-after you take one of the Chem intro class

Just as they offer for Algebra 2 Math:
2yrAlgebra2
Algebra2
HonorsAlgebra2

They have three levels:

- Chem (non honors)
- Honors chem
- DP honors Chem which isn’t actually a double period but a full credit class taught in a single semester rather than a year

You're talking about Blair? Not at all schools it seems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our school, the most competitive science oriented students double up on Honors Bio and Honors Chem in 9th. This is in an effort to get all of the AP Science classes in before graduation. AP Chemistry double period can be done sophomore year, then AP Bio (Senior Preference) and AP Physics C can be slotted in depending on availability and math level.

I think the problem here is that, other than magnet students, kids are not encouraged to take the double science course their freshman year. In fact, a lot of kids are actively discouraged from taking it and encouraged to take a full year of PE instead.

It also requires parents and students to understand that the double science period freshman year is the only way to be in a science class with other motivated students, since the "Honors" Biology course includes a bunch of kids who are on the slowest possible science path and just hit honors biology junior year.

Basically, it's another case kids and families need to do their own research and can't accept the recommendations coming into course selection.

Best advice here. Thank you. Shame on MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes there's movement from Honors Chem to Chem.

MCPS should have another level of Chemistry:
Chem-slower paced
ChemA-medium paced
HonorsChem-faster paced

APChem-after you take one of the Chem intro class

Just as they offer for Algebra 2 Math:
2yrAlgebra2
Algebra2
HonorsAlgebra2

They have three levels:

- Chem (non honors)
- Honors chem
- DP honors Chem which isn’t actually a double period but a full credit class taught in a single semester rather than a year

What happens after a half year science course? What other half year courses can fill the schedule?

They take Chem DP one semester and physics DP the other semester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

The College Board asks for the AP courses to be the second exposure. Remember that they are supposed to be college classes. If I’m teaching AP Bio, I don’t want to spend time teaching your “genius” what an organelle is…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

The College Board asks for the AP courses to be the second exposure. Remember that they are supposed to be college classes. If I’m teaching AP Bio, I don’t want to spend time teaching your “genius” what an organelle is…

Ok I think we get it about Bio and Chem. So, why not the same for Physics? Why can students take an AP Physics without having taken Physics or Honors Physics first? All students should have to take each: Bio-Chem-Physics. Then in 12th, the AP version of whichever they want out of the three (Bio,Chem,Physics). And for the students wanting more science, they can double up on science classes for all or any years of HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

The College Board asks for the AP courses to be the second exposure. Remember that they are supposed to be college classes. If I’m teaching AP Bio, I don’t want to spend time teaching your “genius” what an organelle is…

Ok I think we get it about Bio and Chem. So, why not the same for Physics? Why can students take an AP Physics without having taken Physics or Honors Physics first? All students should have to take each: Bio-Chem-Physics. Then in 12th, the AP version of whichever they want out of the three (Bio,Chem,Physics). And for the students wanting more science, they can double up on science classes for all or any years of HS.

It would be helpful if people would fact check themselves before posting incorrect information that is easily checked. The college board does NOT ask for all AP courses to be the second exposure.

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-biology
Recommended Prerequisites - High school courses in biology and chemistry

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-chemistry
Recommended Prerequisites - High school courses in chemistry and Algebra II

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-environmental-science
Recommended Prerequisites - Two years of high school laboratory science, including life science and physical science, along with at least one year of algebra

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-physics-c-mechanics
Recommended Prerequisites - You should have taken calculus or be taking calculus at the same time as this course

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-physics-c-electricity-and-magnetism
Recommended Prerequisites - You should have taken calculus or be taking calculus at the same time as this course.

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-physics-1-algebra-based
Recommended Prerequisites - You should have completed a geometry course and be concurrently taking Algebra II or an equivalent course.

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-physics-2-algebra-based
Recommended Prerequisites - You should have completed AP Physics 1 or a comparable introductory physics course and should have taken or be concurrently taking pre-calculus or an equivalent course.

Notice that 3 of the 4 physics courses do NOT recommend an introductory physics course as a prerequisite. As stated previously, the math level is the driver between AP Physics C and AP Physics 1.

[Anonymous]

Will contact money making College Board for clarification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

The College Board asks for the AP courses to be the second exposure. Remember that they are supposed to be college classes. If I’m teaching AP Bio, I don’t want to spend time teaching your “genius” what an organelle is…

We're lucky you aren't a bio teacher.
Organelles are middle school Bio.

https://flexbooks.ck12.org/cbook/ck-12-middle-school-life-science-2.0/section/2.7/primary/lesson/organelles-ms-ls/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes there's movement from Honors Chem to Chem.

MCPS should have another level of Chemistry:
Chem-slower paced
ChemA-medium paced
HonorsChem-faster paced

APChem-after you take one of the Chem intro class

Just as they offer for Algebra 2 Math:
2yrAlgebra2
Algebra2
HonorsAlgebra2

They have three levels:

- Chem (non honors)
- Honors chem
- DP honors Chem which isn’t actually a double period but a full credit class taught in a single semester rather than a year

What happens after a half year science course? What other half year courses can fill the schedule?

They take Chem DP one semester and physics DP the other semester.

That's only at SMACS so not useful.

[Anonymous]

Its because Physics is split into 2 subjects, Mechanics and Electromagnetism

So there is a choice to do 2 semesters of Mechanics as one AP Physics C year (because full year courses are easier to schedule than semesters), or one year of Honors both and 1 year of AP Mech+EM.

AP Physics 1 messes everything up because it's supposed to be Physics 1 Mechanics and 2 EM (less mathy version of Honors and AP C, for non STEM majors). But that's too many options, and Physics requires higher math than Bio or Chem, so students start physics later, so Physics 1 (Mechanics) is used as a bad replacement for Honors Physics (Mechanics + EM).

It would be like if biology did microbiology as a separate half course from microbiology ecology, and you could do only one of them or the other if you wanted.

This by the way is how Micro/Macro Economics does work - two separate AP half courses, but in that case there's no "high school level" version first.

Then for all of this stuff, different schools make different choices about whether any particular piece of this is one semester or two semesters or one double. Semester or two double period semesters.

It's all very, very arbitrary.

[Anonymous]

What do people think in terms of the pathways leading to the IB science classes? For non-IB program students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Its because Physics is split into 2 subjects, Mechanics and Electromagnetism

So there is a choice to do 2 semesters of Mechanics as one AP Physics C year (because full year courses are easier to schedule than semesters), or one year of Honors both and 1 year of AP Mech+EM.

AP Physics 1 messes everything up because it's supposed to be Physics 1 Mechanics and 2 EM (less mathy version of Honors and AP C, for non STEM majors). But that's too many options, and Physics requires higher math than Bio or Chem, so students start physics later, so Physics 1 (Mechanics) is used as a bad replacement for Honors Physics (Mechanics + EM).

It would be like if biology did microbiology as a separate half course from microbiology ecology, and you could do only one of them or the other if you wanted.

This by the way is how Micro/Macro Economics does work - two separate AP half courses, but in that case there's no "high school level" version first.

Then for all of this stuff, different schools make different choices about whether any particular piece of this is one semester or two semesters or one double. Semester or two double period semesters.

It's all very, very arbitrary.

Yes, our older kid's HS only offered one other Physics (can't recall exact name, Physics C perhaps) aside from Physics/Honors Physics. Students wanting intro level could take Honors Physics and take the other higher level Physics later in HS if desired. And many kids went straight into the higher level Physics the year they took Pre-calc or Calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Blair allows AP chemistry without first taking honors chemistry. But they can go directly to AP Physics 1 without honors physics.

Why can't students be in AP Bio or AP Chem without Hon Bio and Hon Chem? Is it to give students in certain math classes equivalent levels of science by allowing them AP Physics (Calculus and Physics) or more demand for AP Physics level than for AP Bio and AP Chem at Blair. How about other MCPS HS?

The College Board asks for the AP courses to be the second exposure. Remember that they are supposed to be college classes. If I’m teaching AP Bio, I don’t want to spend time teaching your “genius” what an organelle is…

Ok I think we get it about Bio and Chem. So, why not the same for Physics? Why can students take an AP Physics without having taken Physics or Honors Physics first? All students should have to take each: Bio-Chem-Physics. Then in 12th, the AP version of whichever they want out of the three (Bio,Chem,Physics). And for the students wanting more science, they can double up on science classes for all or any years of HS.

It would be helpful if people would fact check themselves before posting incorrect information that is easily checked. The college board does NOT ask for all AP courses to be the second exposure.

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-biology
Recommended Prerequisites - High school courses in biology and chemistry

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-chemistry
Recommended Prerequisites - High school courses in chemistry and Algebra II

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-environmental-science
Recommended Prerequisites - Two years of high school laboratory science, including life science and physical science, along with at least one year of algebra

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-physics-c-mechanics
Recommended Prerequisites - You should have taken calculus or be taking calculus at the same time as this course

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-physics-c-electricity-and-magnetism
Recommended Prerequisites - You should have taken calculus or be taking calculus at the same time as this course.

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-physics-1-algebra-based
Recommended Prerequisites - You should have completed a geometry course and be concurrently taking Algebra II or an equivalent course.

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-physics-2-algebra-based
Recommended Prerequisites - You should have completed AP Physics 1 or a comparable introductory physics course and should have taken or be concurrently taking pre-calculus or an equivalent course.

Notice that 3 of the 4 physics courses do NOT recommend an introductory physics course as a prerequisite. As stated previously, the math level is the driver between AP Physics C and AP Physics 1.

If you read the posts that you are quoting, the response about second exposure was about Biology and Chemistry.

[Anonymous]

Did those of you who did IB program and took less science classes in HS take more once in college?