Considering a move to DC - Stoddert v. Eaton v. Hearst

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks again everyone! I hadn't considered Murch because I thought that the southern-most boundary of Hearst is about as far away from Arlington as I'd like to get for commute purposes. But upon second look, it doesn't really seem like there's that much difference geographically between Murch and Hearst. Will do more research on Murch.

Similarly, living IB for Mann seemed far from Arlington, too, if we're relying on public transportation. We probably could drive to work, though we'd prefer not to. Isn't the Chain Bridge a mess during rush hour?

I've heard great things about Ross, but because we'd already pulling DD out of one school system into another, I'd really like to minimize the number of moves going forward.
The prospect of going to Ross and then moving again to be IB for Deal or Hardy isn't as appealing as moving to be IB at one of the elementary schools that feeds Deal/Hardy. DD is already grumbling about missing her friends and is not very excited about moving. It would be a lot to expect of her to potentially make two moves that would cause her to start fresh all over again with a completely new group of kids.

If you are looking to be more "city" don't do what is zoned for Mann. Walking your child too school - and then getting on public transportation is not in line with most people's commute. In addition - think about how your child is going to get to middle school.

For this reason, Stoddert, Murch and Hearst are really nice options. Most places are walking distance to both the elementary and middle school. Although not smack on the metro (this is why Janney is so popular) - Murch is a short walk to the Van Ness metro stop and Stoddert/Hearst you get on the bus.

Mann is an exceptional school. The real problem is, if your kid continues in DCPS, he or she goes to Hardy which is a step down academically.

Will it still be a step down 3-4 years from now? Seems like Hardy and Deal will be equals in the very near future.

Deal will be a step down in 3-4 years.

Why?

[Anonymous]

PP: Mass over crowding at Deal. Class sizes incredibly large. Lack of proper disciplinary action from DCPS and school admin when teachers try to implement consequences. Lack of true enrichment, more of the “honors for all” culture or allowing everyone at least one -two enriching opportunities per quarter—never mind that some kids may or may not be ready for that. Not enough tracking at Deal. DCPS as a whole is dysfunctional and sometimes the conflicting messages from the top make it hard for administration to communicate with the parent community effectively. People want diversity but realistically if they could they would choose the kind of diversity at Deal that they had in mind—-I.e. often afraid of the inner city poor kids or those who are economically disadvantaged [nevermind that some of these kids are smart and are running away from bad neighborhood schools too]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP: Mass over crowding at Deal. Class sizes incredibly large. Lack of proper disciplinary action from DCPS and school admin when teachers try to implement consequences. Lack of true enrichment, more of the “honors for all” culture or allowing everyone at least one -two enriching opportunities per quarter—never mind that some kids may or may not be ready for that. Not enough tracking at Deal. DCPS as a whole is dysfunctional and sometimes the conflicting messages from the top make it hard for administration to communicate with the parent community effectively. People want diversity but realistically if they could they would choose the kind of diversity at Deal that they had in mind—-I.e. often afraid of the inner city poor kids or those who are economically disadvantaged [nevermind that some of these kids are smart and are running away from bad neighborhood schools too]

Agree with everything above. Hardy is pretty much academically equal to Deal (in the 6th and 7th grade classes), but suffer from fewer of the politics of Deal and doesn't face overcrowding. Most of the families in the Stoddert area are starting to send their kids to Hardy over privates, it is a matter of time for Key and Mann families. Luckily the Hardy building can hold 600, they are at about 400 now, with a little more than half OOB. The big worry now is if the Key and Mann families will turn Hardy into Deal (in terms of culture).

[Anonymous]

OP, Eaton is being renovated this year, and will be in a swing space on Van Ness Ave behind UDC. Check out the facilities yourself and search the forum for threads on other schools that have used that space during construction.

Stoddert uses portable classrooms for the upper grades. Those spaces, too, are not great.

I don't know anything about Hearst.

Others have mentioned Mann. If you're reverse commuting to Arlington by car, using Key Bridge or 66 is surprisingly quick. Avoid Chain Bridge. I used to be able to drive from Woodley Park to Woodmont in 13 minutes via Rock Creek and 66.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP: Mass over crowding at Deal. Class sizes incredibly large. Lack of proper disciplinary action from DCPS and school admin when teachers try to implement consequences. Lack of true enrichment, more of the “honors for all” culture or allowing everyone at least one -two enriching opportunities per quarter—never mind that some kids may or may not be ready for that. Not enough tracking at Deal. DCPS as a whole is dysfunctional and sometimes the conflicting messages from the top make it hard for administration to communicate with the parent community effectively. People want diversity but realistically if they could they would choose the kind of diversity at Deal that they had in mind—-I.e. often afraid of the inner city poor kids or those who are economically disadvantaged [nevermind that some of these kids are smart and are running away from bad neighborhood schools too]

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but there are many posts on these forums complaining about APS being dysfunctional, MCPS being dysfunctional, ACPS being dysfunctional.....where is one to go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP: Mass over crowding at Deal. Class sizes incredibly large. Lack of proper disciplinary action from DCPS and school admin when teachers try to implement consequences. Lack of true enrichment, more of the “honors for all” culture or allowing everyone at least one -two enriching opportunities per quarter—never mind that some kids may or may not be ready for that. Not enough tracking at Deal. DCPS as a whole is dysfunctional and sometimes the conflicting messages from the top make it hard for administration to communicate with the parent community effectively. People want diversity but realistically if they could they would choose the kind of diversity at Deal that they had in mind—-I.e. often afraid of the inner city poor kids or those who are economically disadvantaged [nevermind that some of these kids are smart and are running away from bad neighborhood schools too]

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but there are many posts on these forums complaining about APS being dysfunctional, MCPS being dysfunctional, ACPS being dysfunctional.....where is one to go?

Let’s be honest, here’s why DCPS lies at the bottom:

-Michelle Rhee (3 years experience as a TeachforAmerica teacher and then bam! Chancellor role)
-Kaya Henderson working with local DC politically connected parents to skirt the lottery system and pulling her staffer’s children’s lottery number because the law was written to allow her that flexibility.
- Antwan Wilson new chancellor (for less than 10 months), wrote a new law undoing/forbidding the new chancellor from cherry picking school lottery numbers. Proceeded to break said law that he wrote for his own child.
-DCPS honors for all at the top schools (Wilson, Deal, etc.) because of the local mayor
-We have no idea if the DC curriculum is effective or not because no reputable third party has actually reviewed the curriculum for DCPS to give feedback.
-School lottery system is a circus and causes all kinds of anxieties at each level/round (preschool, end of elementary, middle school, and high school)
-A third of DC students earned diplomas without doing the work. The DCPS scandal of graduating students city wide and awarding diplomas when many students had mass high absenteeism rates and is currently under FBI investigation.
-I.M.P.A.C.T. Forcing good teachers out of DC under the guise of performance evaluations of student based performance. Negelecting the data that DC has some of the highest impoverished students in the country. When children are homeless, malnourished, experience violence, lack proper parenting, etc. it makes it harder for those children to be at grade level and then to evaluate teachers based on factors outside of their control is nefarious.
—Countless articles of the DCPS testing score scandal. A USA Today investigation showed a huge amount of wrong-to-right answer sheet erasures at more than half of D.C. schools; their inquiry didn't include charter schools. NOTE: this was during the same time as the Atlanta Public School scandals. It’s interesting that no charter schools got swept up in the mix.
—-The District claimed a dramatic decline in suspensions, but a Washington Post investigation last summer or the summer before that, showed that many city high schools were suspending students off the books, kicking students out without documentation — and in some cases even marking them present.


Alas, this is only what we know about, how much more have we yet to discover that has been swept under the rug?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP: Mass over crowding at Deal. Class sizes incredibly large. Lack of proper disciplinary action from DCPS and school admin when teachers try to implement consequences. Lack of true enrichment, more of the “honors for all” culture or allowing everyone at least one -two enriching opportunities per quarter—never mind that some kids may or may not be ready for that. Not enough tracking at Deal. DCPS as a whole is dysfunctional and sometimes the conflicting messages from the top make it hard for administration to communicate with the parent community effectively. People want diversity but realistically if they could they would choose the kind of diversity at Deal that they had in mind—-I.e. often afraid of the inner city poor kids or those who are economically disadvantaged [nevermind that some of these kids are smart and are running away from bad neighborhood schools too]

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but there are many posts on these forums complaining about APS being dysfunctional, MCPS being dysfunctional, ACPS being dysfunctional.....where is one to go?

Let’s be honest, here’s why DCPS lies at the bottom:

-Michelle Rhee (3 years experience as a TeachforAmerica teacher and then bam! Chancellor role)
-Kaya Henderson working with local DC politically connected parents to skirt the lottery system and pulling her staffer’s children’s lottery number because the law was written to allow her that flexibility.
- Antwan Wilson new chancellor (for less than 10 months), wrote a new law undoing/forbidding the new chancellor from cherry picking school lottery numbers. Proceeded to break said law that he wrote for his own child.
-DCPS honors for all at the top schools (Wilson, Deal, etc.) because of the local mayor
-We have no idea if the DC curriculum is effective or not because no reputable third party has actually reviewed the curriculum for DCPS to give feedback.
-School lottery system is a circus and causes all kinds of anxieties at each level/round (preschool, end of elementary, middle school, and high school)
-A third of DC students earned diplomas without doing the work. The DCPS scandal of graduating students city wide and awarding diplomas when many students had mass high absenteeism rates and is currently under FBI investigation.
-I.M.P.A.C.T. Forcing good teachers out of DC under the guise of performance evaluations of student based performance. Negelecting the data that DC has some of the highest impoverished students in the country. When children are homeless, malnourished, experience violence, lack proper parenting, etc. it makes it harder for those children to be at grade level and then to evaluate teachers based on factors outside of their control is nefarious.
—Countless articles of the DCPS testing score scandal. A USA Today investigation showed a huge amount of wrong-to-right answer sheet erasures at more than half of D.C. schools; their inquiry didn't include charter schools. NOTE: this was during the same time as the Atlanta Public School scandals. It’s interesting that no charter schools got swept up in the mix.
—-The District claimed a dramatic decline in suspensions, but a Washington Post investigation last summer or the summer before that, showed that many city high schools were suspending students off the books, kicking students out without documentation — and in some cases even marking them present.


Alas, this is only what we know about, how much more have we yet to discover that has been swept under the rug?

Op here. Wow, the level of dysfunction puts things in perspective. Am I crazy for considering DCPS when APS is a viable option (and makes more sense commute-wise)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP: Mass over crowding at Deal. Class sizes incredibly large. Lack of proper disciplinary action from DCPS and school admin when teachers try to implement consequences. Lack of true enrichment, more of the “honors for all” culture or allowing everyone at least one -two enriching opportunities per quarter—never mind that some kids may or may not be ready for that. Not enough tracking at Deal. DCPS as a whole is dysfunctional and sometimes the conflicting messages from the top make it hard for administration to communicate with the parent community effectively. People want diversity but realistically if they could they would choose the kind of diversity at Deal that they had in mind—-I.e. often afraid of the inner city poor kids or those who are economically disadvantaged [nevermind that some of these kids are smart and are running away from bad neighborhood schools too]

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but there are many posts on these forums complaining about APS being dysfunctional, MCPS being dysfunctional, ACPS being dysfunctional.....where is one to go?

Let’s be honest, here’s why DCPS lies at the bottom:

-Michelle Rhee (3 years experience as a TeachforAmerica teacher and then bam! Chancellor role)
-Kaya Henderson working with local DC politically connected parents to skirt the lottery system and pulling her staffer’s children’s lottery number because the law was written to allow her that flexibility.
- Antwan Wilson new chancellor (for less than 10 months), wrote a new law undoing/forbidding the new chancellor from cherry picking school lottery numbers. Proceeded to break said law that he wrote for his own child.
-DCPS honors for all at the top schools (Wilson, Deal, etc.) because of the local mayor
-We have no idea if the DC curriculum is effective or not because no reputable third party has actually reviewed the curriculum for DCPS to give feedback.
-School lottery system is a circus and causes all kinds of anxieties at each level/round (preschool, end of elementary, middle school, and high school)
-A third of DC students earned diplomas without doing the work. The DCPS scandal of graduating students city wide and awarding diplomas when many students had mass high absenteeism rates and is currently under FBI investigation.
-I.M.P.A.C.T. Forcing good teachers out of DC under the guise of performance evaluations of student based performance. Negelecting the data that DC has some of the highest impoverished students in the country. When children are homeless, malnourished, experience violence, lack proper parenting, etc. it makes it harder for those children to be at grade level and then to evaluate teachers based on factors outside of their control is nefarious.
—Countless articles of the DCPS testing score scandal. A USA Today investigation showed a huge amount of wrong-to-right answer sheet erasures at more than half of D.C. schools; their inquiry didn't include charter schools. NOTE: this was during the same time as the Atlanta Public School scandals. It’s interesting that no charter schools got swept up in the mix.
—-The District claimed a dramatic decline in suspensions, but a Washington Post investigation last summer or the summer before that, showed that many city high schools were suspending students off the books, kicking students out without documentation — and in some cases even marking them present.


Alas, this is only what we know about, how much more have we yet to discover that has been swept under the rug?

Op here. Wow, the level of dysfunction puts things in perspective. Am I crazy for considering DCPS when APS is a viable option (and makes more sense commute-wise)?

Yes. Arlington schools are better than DC, MoCo. I’d move there if I could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks again everyone! I hadn't considered Murch because I thought that the southern-most boundary of Hearst is about as far away from Arlington as I'd like to get for commute purposes. But upon second look, it doesn't really seem like there's that much difference geographically between Murch and Hearst. Will do more research on Murch.

Similarly, living IB for Mann seemed far from Arlington, too, if we're relying on public transportation. We probably could drive to work, though we'd prefer not to. Isn't the Chain Bridge a mess during rush hour?

I've heard great things about Ross, but because we'd already pulling DD out of one school system into another, I'd really like to minimize the number of moves going forward.
The prospect of going to Ross and then moving again to be IB for Deal or Hardy isn't as appealing as moving to be IB at one of the elementary schools that feeds Deal/Hardy. DD is already grumbling about missing her friends and is not very excited about moving. It would be a lot to expect of her to potentially make two moves that would cause her to start fresh all over again with a completely new group of kids.

If you are looking to be more "city" don't do what is zoned for Mann. Walking your child too school - and then getting on public transportation is not in line with most people's commute. In addition - think about how your child is going to get to middle school.

For this reason, Stoddert, Murch and Hearst are really nice options. Most places are walking distance to both the elementary and middle school. Although not smack on the metro (this is why Janney is so popular) - Murch is a short walk to the Van Ness metro stop and Stoddert/Hearst you get on the bus.

Mann is an exceptional school. The real problem is, if your kid continues in DCPS, he or she goes to Hardy which is a step down academically.

Will it still be a step down 3-4 years from now? Seems like Hardy and Deal will be equals in the very near future.

Deal will be a step down in 3-4 years.

Agreed. I'd send a kid to Hardy over Deal now. I have two kids at Deal and it's been a disappointment. Major step down from
Our JKLM feeder--chaotic, teachers very uneven in quality, etc

[Anonymous]

NW DC schools are all fine. There are some issues with tracking at Wilson and overcrowding in general. (These are very different issues with the rest of DCPS).

With that in mind, there are really only three things that matter to us, conditional on living in NW DC:
1) Commutes (both to the school and to work)
2) Neighborhood feel (highly variable, we like walking - the average american seems to prefer driving with a big house)
3) Sense of Community (we have a porch and so do all our neighbors)

When we were looking to buy, we realized quickly that the differences in NW DC schools were really really small compared to 1-3. You have large suburban tracks by Mann, diverse populations by Stoddert, and a mix by Key. Also, there are the MoCo schools right across the border too - all good too!

[Anonymous]

I’d avoid Stoddard based on the Joe Weedon situation, his daughter talked about the high teacher absentism rate and her learning how to play Blackjack & other card games because the sub allowed it. The sub should have been covering the class material. Both Joe and his daughter had a sit down with WashPo about their DCPS middle school experience.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/the...9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d avoid Stoddard based on the Joe Weedon situation, his daughter talked about the high teacher absentism rate and her learning how to play Blackjack & other card games because the sub allowed it. The sub should have been covering the class material. Both Joe and his daughter had a sit down with WashPo about their DCPS middle school experience.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/the...9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

Joe Weedon's daughter played cards at Elliot-Hine, which is a middle school not an elementary school and in NE, not NW. Not relevant to OP's decision at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d avoid Stoddard based on the Joe Weedon situation, his daughter talked about the high teacher absentism rate and her learning how to play Blackjack & other card games because the sub allowed it. The sub should have been covering the class material. Both Joe and his daughter had a sit down with WashPo about their DCPS middle school experience.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/the...9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

Can't open the link, but do you mean Stoddert in NW? If you mean Stoddert then we have totally different experience and we just finished 7 years there. No cards or tv, ever. I also don't remember DC saying that they had a sub often. My understanding from DC is that most or almost all Stoddert kids are doing well at Hardy and in advanced classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d avoid Stoddard based on the Joe Weedon situation, his daughter talked about the high teacher absentism rate and her learning how to play Blackjack & other card games because the sub allowed it. The sub should have been covering the class material. Both Joe and his daughter had a sit down with WashPo about their DCPS middle school experience.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/the...9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

Can't open the link, but do you mean Stoddert in NW? If you mean Stoddert then we have totally different experience and we just finished 7 years there. No cards or tv, ever. I also don't remember DC saying that they had a sub often. My understanding from DC is that most or almost all Stoddert kids are doing well at Hardy and in advanced classes.

PPP is mistaken (this seems to be the article https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/they-believe-more-students-should-attend-neighborhood-schools-but-what-happens-when-its-their-child/2019/04/13/8e797690-3ed6-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html )

They are talking about Eliot-Hine Middle. NOT Hardy. Most of the Stoddert kids are Hardy seem to be doing REALLY well. I kinda feel bad for the families that opted out - I know some horrible commutes to EOTP charters.