Parents giving up custody of their kids to get need based financial aid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many people who get zero support from their families for college who can't get any type of financial aid because of their parents' income. Once they are over 18, even if they pay all their own expenses, there is no way (other than getting married) to not have their parents' income considered for financial aid purposes. If I were in that boat, I'd try to get declared independent of my parents before I become 18. If they aren't paying for me once I move out, I don't consider it fraud. If the government feels so strongly that parents should pay, count their support and garnish their wages for their deemed portion. It's not fair to not do that and then attribute income to students who don't see a dime.

They are paying for their kids health insurance during college, and few moved out. They are not independent

In the cases in the article, but there are many students who don't get any support and are still burdened with counting their parents' income.

Well yeah ... our higher ed finance system generally views parents as having the responsibility to help pay for undergrad until the child is 24. There are a lot of messed up things about college costs, but I can't really get that exercised about this one. For really extreme cases (abuse) individual financial aid officers can override the policy.

Obviously, you haven't talked to millions (?) of kids who didn't get FA and couldn't afford college or are settled with high debts because their deadbeat and absent parents made too much money and they couldn't declare themselves independent. Go outside your comfort zone sometimes.

Those who cry fraud should read the court briefs filed by those people. I particularly like the phrase: "The Guardian can provide educational and financial support and opportunities to the minor that her parents could not otherwise provide" - that's really rubbing it in, isn't it. Have a court certify that a child is better off educationally if their parents drop them. That's what happened here apparently.

[Anonymous]

Is the guardian providing Heath insurance? Clothes? A roof?

The key word is COULD. The parents could but are choosing not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many people who get zero support from their families for college who can't get any type of financial aid because of their parents' income. Once they are over 18, even if they pay all their own expenses, there is no way (other than getting married) to not have their parents' income considered for financial aid purposes. If I were in that boat, I'd try to get declared independent of my parents before I become 18. If they aren't paying for me once I move out, I don't consider it fraud. If the government feels so strongly that parents should pay, count their support and garnish their wages for their deemed portion. It's not fair to not do that and then attribute income to students who don't see a dime.

They are paying for their kids health insurance during college, and few moved out. They are not independent

In the cases in the article, but there are many students who don't get any support and are still burdened with counting their parents' income.

Well yeah ... our higher ed finance system generally views parents as having the responsibility to help pay for undergrad until the child is 24. There are a lot of messed up things about college costs, but I can't really get that exercised about this one. For really extreme cases (abuse) individual financial aid officers can override the policy.

Obviously, you haven't talked to millions (?) of kids who didn't get FA and couldn't afford college or are settled with high debts because their deadbeat and absent parents made too much money and they couldn't declare themselves independent. Go outside your comfort zone sometimes.

Those who cry fraud should read the court briefs filed by those people. I particularly like the phrase: "The Guardian can provide educational and financial support and opportunities to the minor that her parents could not otherwise provide" - that's really rubbing it in, isn't it. Have a court certify that a child is better off educationally if their parents drop them. That's what happened here apparently.

Agreed. I've come across plenty of stories of people who had to turn down a more expensive college because parents refused to pay. We're not talking about turning down an Ivy for instate, but turning down a solid instate school to go to community colleges.

Then at the same time the colleges willingly admit students who can only afford to come by taking out huge loans and are saddled with an enormous debt upon graduation. They let these students enroll and promise them it's no big deal and they'll be sure to pay it off quickly. Then the student graduates and real world hits them in the face and they're still paying off the loans decades later.

Then you have schools giving out merit aid to students who turn up on campus in new BMWs (yes, I remember a few instances of this happening).

The whole system is utterly broken and it's driven by out of reality tuition levels.

[Anonymous]

I would have totally done this for my children. My grad school loans have been a drag for almost a decade and I would do anything short of defined fraud to keep them from having loans. It is so typical to go into hysterics over a few people gaming the system while colleges jack up tuition rates past the point of affordability. No one owes our secondary education system any honor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many people who get zero support from their families for college who can't get any type of financial aid because of their parents' income. Once they are over 18, even if they pay all their own expenses, there is no way (other than getting married) to not have their parents' income considered for financial aid purposes. If I were in that boat, I'd try to get declared independent of my parents before I become 18. If they aren't paying for me once I move out, I don't consider it fraud. If the government feels so strongly that parents should pay, count their support and garnish their wages for their deemed portion. It's not fair to not do that and then attribute income to students who don't see a dime.

They are paying for their kids health insurance during college, and few moved out. They are not independent

In the cases in the article, but there are many students who don't get any support and are still burdened with counting their parents' income.

Well yeah ... our higher ed finance system generally views parents as having the responsibility to help pay for undergrad until the child is 24. There are a lot of messed up things about college costs, but I can't really get that exercised about this one. For really extreme cases (abuse) individual financial aid officers can override the policy.

Obviously, you haven't talked to millions (?) of kids who didn't get FA and couldn't afford college or are settled with high debts because their deadbeat and absent parents made too much money and they couldn't declare themselves independent. Go outside your comfort zone sometimes.

Those who cry fraud should read the court briefs filed by those people. I particularly like the phrase: "The Guardian can provide educational and financial support and opportunities to the minor that her parents could not otherwise provide" - that's really rubbing it in, isn't it. Have a court certify that a child is better off educationally if their parents drop them. That's what happened here apparently.

Agreed. I've come across plenty of stories of people who had to turn down a more expensive college because parents refused to pay. We're not talking about turning down an Ivy for instate, but turning down a solid instate school to go to community colleges.

Then at the same time the colleges willingly admit students who can only afford to come by taking out huge loans and are saddled with an enormous debt upon graduation. They let these students enroll and promise them it's no big deal and they'll be sure to pay it off quickly. Then the student graduates and real world hits them in the face and they're still paying off the loans decades later.

Then you have schools giving out merit aid to students who turn up on campus in new BMWs (yes, I remember a few instances of this happening).

The whole system is utterly broken and it's driven by out of reality tuition levels.

The broken part is that states are cutting taxes and not funding public colleges.

I feel sorry for that (small) number of kids with deadbeat parents, but the system cannot be shaped around them. They can go to community college, or wait until 24 when they are considered independent by FAFSA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would have totally done this for my children. My grad school loans have been a drag for almost a decade and I would do anything short of defined fraud to keep them from having loans. It is so typical to go into hysterics over a few people gaming the system while colleges jack up tuition rates past the point of affordability. No one owes our secondary education system any honor.

But it's taking money from people who actually need the aid. Do you also think it's ok use fake addressses to get into better elementary schools, in-state tuition, lower taxes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have totally done this for my children. My grad school loans have been a drag for almost a decade and I would do anything short of defined fraud to keep them from having loans. It is so typical to go into hysterics over a few people gaming the system while colleges jack up tuition rates past the point of affordability. No one owes our secondary education system any honor.

But it's taking money from people who actually need the aid. Do you also think it's ok use fake addressses to get into better elementary schools, in-state tuition, lower taxes?

... fake your income to get rent control, fake your income to get approved for a mortgage, hide assets from medicare .... I could go on.

[Anonymous]

When did the FAFSA rules change re counting parental income if you were no longer dependent on your parents? Meaning living on your own, working, paying for your own at expenses at 18+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When did the FAFSA rules change re counting parental income if you were no longer dependent on your parents? Meaning living on your own, working, paying for your own at expenses at 18+.

You’re independent at 24 or if in grad school. It has been that way for a long time.

[Anonymous]

The system is truly broken in so many ways. A college education is required for so many jobs that don’t really need it. Mail man? And a Masters degree in teaching to make enough to live in DCUM land?
Then you have the cost of college. Absolute minimum $100k for 4 years State school $250K for private. Who has that kind of money? Then you have the pernicious loans. People paying school loans well into their 40s. I wish there could be a reset.
So while what these parents are doing is wrong the system is wrong also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many people who get zero support from their families for college who can't get any type of financial aid because of their parents' income. Once they are over 18, even if they pay all their own expenses, there is no way (other than getting married) to not have their parents' income considered for financial aid purposes. If I were in that boat, I'd try to get declared independent of my parents before I become 18. If they aren't paying for me once I move out, I don't consider it fraud. If the government feels so strongly that parents should pay, count their support and garnish their wages for their deemed portion. It's not fair to not do that and then attribute income to students who don't see a dime.

They are paying for their kids health insurance during college, and few moved out. They are not independent

In the cases in the article, but there are many students who don't get any support and are still burdened with counting their parents' income.

Well yeah ... our higher ed finance system generally views parents as having the responsibility to help pay for undergrad until the child is 24. There are a lot of messed up things about college costs, but I can't really get that exercised about this one. For really extreme cases (abuse) individual financial aid officers can override the policy.

Then they should force parents to pay by garnishing their wages if they really think parents should pay. A 21 year old who has worked and supported himself for three years with zero support from his parents and want to go back to school is saddled with their parents income unless there is abuse. That's ridiculous. But of course you have no empathy for such a person because that's not your situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have totally done this for my children. My grad school loans have been a drag for almost a decade and I would do anything short of defined fraud to keep them from having loans. It is so typical to go into hysterics over a few people gaming the system while colleges jack up tuition rates past the point of affordability. No one owes our secondary education system any honor.

But it's taking money from people who actually need the aid. Do you also think it's ok use fake addressses to get into better elementary schools, in-state tuition, lower taxes?

... fake your income to get rent control, fake your income to get approved for a mortgage, hide assets from medicare .... I could go on.

You already went too far. The examples you gave are illegal. In the example we're discussing, a court has certified that these children are educationally better off without their biological parents being guardians.

A system's loopholes are reflective of the substance upon which a system is built. If people "game" the system and that leads to undesirable outcomes, it's unwise to blame those people who act rationally and do. Blame the system instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many people who get zero support from their families for college who can't get any type of financial aid because of their parents' income. Once they are over 18, even if they pay all their own expenses, there is no way (other than getting married) to not have their parents' income considered for financial aid purposes. If I were in that boat, I'd try to get declared independent of my parents before I become 18. If they aren't paying for me once I move out, I don't consider it fraud. If the government feels so strongly that parents should pay, count their support and garnish their wages for their deemed portion. It's not fair to not do that and then attribute income to students who don't see a dime.

They are paying for their kids health insurance during college, and few moved out. They are not independent

In the cases in the article, but there are many students who don't get any support and are still burdened with counting their parents' income.

Well yeah ... our higher ed finance system generally views parents as having the responsibility to help pay for undergrad until the child is 24. There are a lot of messed up things about college costs, but I can't really get that exercised about this one. For really extreme cases (abuse) individual financial aid officers can override the policy.

Then they should force parents to pay by garnishing their wages if they really think parents should pay. A 21 year old who has worked and supported himself for three years with zero support from his parents and want to go back to school is saddled with their parents income unless there is abuse. That's ridiculous. But of course you have no empathy for such a person because that's not your situation.

My parents paid 0 for me, and likely would not have paid anything if I had lost my scholarships. So I do empathize. I think that college costs should be reduced for EVERYONE. But the rules on how to determine independence from parents have been well-established for a long time -- and they exist precisely because parents will game the system, just like these ones. So if anything, save your ire for the grifters, because they are the ones who make it harder for the students who are truly independent prior to 24.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have totally done this for my children. My grad school loans have been a drag for almost a decade and I would do anything short of defined fraud to keep them from having loans. It is so typical to go into hysterics over a few people gaming the system while colleges jack up tuition rates past the point of affordability. No one owes our secondary education system any honor.

But it's taking money from people who actually need the aid. Do you also think it's ok use fake addressses to get into better elementary schools, in-state tuition, lower taxes?

... fake your income to get rent control, fake your income to get approved for a mortgage, hide assets from medicare .... I could go on.

You already went too far. The examples you gave are illegal. In the example we're discussing, a court has certified that these children are educationally better off without their biological parents being guardians.

A system's loopholes are reflective of the substance upon which a system is built. If people "game" the system and that leads to undesirable outcomes, it's unwise to blame those people who act rationally and do. Blame the system instead.

lol, no. these parents are going to be charged criminally, and their kids are going to have their admissions revoked. just wait and see. these were not authentic guardianship proceedings; they were shams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop subsidizing, everyone pay the same lower rate

Who is subsidizing whom?

Like it or not, affordable college will mean more taxes -- the issue is that states have stopped investing in colleges.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/09/why-is-college-so-expensive-in-america/569884/

+1 Did anyone read the article? The people who took advantage of this guardianship loophole were real estate agents, doctors and lawyers, i.e. people who have means to pay for their kids college but preferred not to.