Bit of a rant:Concern about new pool of MCPS subs (from a teacher)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the alternative? There aren't enough people willing to be subs. Raising sub pay? I am asking sincerely.

+1 I don't know what the answer is, but there is a shortage of teachers and subs. The only way to get more qualified people as subs is to raise the pay pretty significantly, because when I looked at the sub pay rate, it was terrible. But where would the money come from? No one wants their taxes raised.

Everyone wants low taxes and quality teachers. Those two don't go together.

Please. The County finds money for all sorts of pet projects when it wants to. 40 million in tax breaks for Marriott to "relocate" a few minutes down the road. This is about priorities. In Singapore, teachers are paid like professionals, and they get professional teachers and have among the highest test scores globally.

Half of the county budget goes to MCPS. That's not enough to show that education is a priority for the county?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the alternative? There aren't enough people willing to be subs. Raising sub pay? I am asking sincerely.

+1 I don't know what the answer is, but there is a shortage of teachers and subs. The only way to get more qualified people as subs is to raise the pay pretty significantly, because when I looked at the sub pay rate, it was terrible. But where would the money come from? No one wants their taxes raised.

Everyone wants low taxes and quality teachers. Those two don't go together.

Please. The County finds money for all sorts of pet projects when it wants to. 40 million in tax breaks for Marriott to "relocate" a few minutes down the road. This is about priorities. In Singapore, teachers are paid like professionals, and they get professional teachers and have among the highest test scores globally.

Half of the county budget goes to MCPS. That's not enough to show that education is a priority for the county?

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/government/lower-state-tax-revenues-expected-to-create-tight-budget/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the alternative? There aren't enough people willing to be subs. Raising sub pay? I am asking sincerely.

+1 I don't know what the answer is, but there is a shortage of teachers and subs. The only way to get more qualified people as subs is to raise the pay pretty significantly, because when I looked at the sub pay rate, it was terrible. But where would the money come from? No one wants their taxes raised.

Everyone wants low taxes and quality teachers. Those two don't go together.

Please. The County finds money for all sorts of pet projects when it wants to. 40 million in tax breaks for Marriott to "relocate" a few minutes down the road. This is about priorities. In Singapore, teachers are paid like professionals, and they get professional teachers and have among the highest test scores globally.

Half of the county budget goes to MCPS. That's not enough to show that education is a priority for the county?

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/government/lower-state-tax-revenues-expected-to-create-tight-budget/

Public education is THE major thing that localities are responsible for. Lots of our roads are state highways. The state, not the county, pays to maintain them. Lots of other services are also state run or state funded. The courts are state agencies and funded by the state even though they are "county" courts. The state has steadily been shifting responsibility for school funding to the counties over the last decades, most significantly responsibility for pensions. So yes, it can still be half the budget and not the priority it needs to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The system needs to focus more on its people, period, meaning the intangibles and the relationship piece I recently left the system. I’m an educator in my 40s with several graduate degrees, glowing formal and informal evaluations and tremendous success with kids. Guess what happened when I said I was considering leaving for another system? Nothing. That’s right. No one asked me why I was leaving, or told me they wish I’d reconsider, or said it was a loss. I just moved on. I might have considered returning at some point, too, but the leaving process made me feel so dispensable that I never want to feel that unappreciated again. The system needs to focus as much on their existing personnel as future subs or they’ll continue to bleed people.

This. Nobody cares what the employees think. If you say what you think, you are labeled as "negative."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the alternative? There aren't enough people willing to be subs. Raising sub pay? I am asking sincerely.

+1 I don't know what the answer is, but there is a shortage of teachers and subs. The only way to get more qualified people as subs is to raise the pay pretty significantly, because when I looked at the sub pay rate, it was terrible. But where would the money come from? No one wants their taxes raised.

Everyone wants low taxes and quality teachers. Those two don't go together.

Please. The County finds money for all sorts of pet projects when it wants to. 40 million in tax breaks for Marriott to "relocate" a few minutes down the road. This is about priorities. In Singapore, teachers are paid like professionals, and they get professional teachers and have among the highest test scores globally.

Half of the county budget goes to MCPS. That's not enough to show that education is a priority for the county?

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/government/lower-state-tax-revenues-expected-to-create-tight-budget/

Public education is THE major thing that localities are responsible for. Lots of our roads are state highways. The state, not the county, pays to maintain them. Lots of other services are also state run or state funded. The courts are state agencies and funded by the state even though they are "county" courts. The state has steadily been shifting responsibility for school funding to the counties over the last decades, most significantly responsibility for pensions. So yes, it can still be half the budget and not the priority it needs to be.

What county spends 60%%+ on schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Public education is THE major thing that localities are responsible for. Lots of our roads are state highways. The state, not the county, pays to maintain them. Lots of other services are also state run or state funded. The courts are state agencies and funded by the state even though they are "county" courts. The state has steadily been shifting responsibility for school funding to the counties over the last decades, most significantly responsibility for pensions. So yes, it can still be half the budget and not the priority it needs to be.

No, that's factually incorrect.

Public education is the single largest budget item - that would be true. But transportation, public safety, public health, environmental protection, and government services like libraries, permitting, parks are also major things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system needs to focus more on its people, period, meaning the intangibles and the relationship piece I recently left the system. I’m an educator in my 40s with several graduate degrees, glowing formal and informal evaluations and tremendous success with kids. Guess what happened when I said I was considering leaving for another system? Nothing. That’s right. No one asked me why I was leaving, or told me they wish I’d reconsider, or said it was a loss. I just moved on. I might have considered returning at some point, too, but the leaving process made me feel so dispensable that I never want to feel that unappreciated again. The system needs to focus as much on their existing personnel as future subs or they’ll continue to bleed people.

This. Nobody cares what the employees think. If you say what you think, you are labeled as "negative."

It depends. I think admin at my current school listens to me because I speak about both positive and negative things in our building. And I don’t just complain about the negative things that impact me. I advocate for other teachers and I come with at least one potential solution. However, I learned this after a horrible year of fall out early in my career while serving as EFR at another school. The principal was so enraged that I brought the complaints of other staff to his attention that he told the assistant principal to find a way to get rid of me. It was clearly retaliatory and I survived the process, but I knew I had to leave or it would repeat the next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you raise the pay of subs you will get more qualified people wanting to be subs. From what I've heard, the pay rate hasn't improved in over 10 years. Of course you need tap people without a BA, because people with a college degree need and deserve higher pay.

Sub pay:

For "certificated" subs: short-term $19.58/hr, long-term $27.89/hr.

For "non-certificated" subs: short-term $18.41/hr, long-term $26.28/hr.

Montgomery County minimum wage is currently $13/hr and will rise to $14/hr on July 1, 2020, and $15/hr on July 1, 2021.

FWIW, Fairfax pays its subs a lot less and doesn’t require a BS. I subbed for several years and can honestly say that most of the subs were awful. These counties have done studies and solicited teacher feedback about how to address the shortage and have largely ignored everything they’ve been told.

What were the recommendations?

I'll go back and look it up later, but lots of support for increasing the pay on hard to fill days like Mondays, Fridays, and the days before holidays (shot down), increasing the pay based on days worked, because good subs are going to be called back (shot down), paying out unused sick/personal days upon separation from the system (doesn't happen in FCPS and was shot down, not sure about MCPS), and doing face to face interviews to make sure the candidates can at least speak English (this was FCPS and it was shot down). Fairfax audited the sub office several years ago and the audit is STILL open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you raise the pay of subs you will get more qualified people wanting to be subs. From what I've heard, the pay rate hasn't improved in over 10 years. Of course you need tap people without a BA, because people with a college degree need and deserve higher pay.

Sub pay:

For "certificated" subs: short-term $19.58/hr, long-term $27.89/hr.

For "non-certificated" subs: short-term $18.41/hr, long-term $26.28/hr.

Montgomery County minimum wage is currently $13/hr and will rise to $14/hr on July 1, 2020, and $15/hr on July 1, 2021.

FWIW, Fairfax pays its subs a lot less and doesn’t require a BS. I subbed for several years and can honestly say that most of the subs were awful. These counties have done studies and solicited teacher feedback about how to address the shortage and have largely ignored everything they’ve been told.

What were the recommendations?

I'll go back and look it up later, but lots of support for increasing the pay on hard to fill days like Mondays, Fridays, and the days before holidays (shot down), increasing the pay based on days worked, because good subs are going to be called back (shot down), paying out unused sick/personal days upon separation from the system (doesn't happen in FCPS and was shot down, not sure about MCPS), and doing face to face interviews to make sure the candidates can at least speak English (this was FCPS and it was shot down). Fairfax audited the sub office several years ago and the audit is STILL open.

I would support all of those. I think there’s already a 30% buyback for unused days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you raise the pay of subs you will get more qualified people wanting to be subs. From what I've heard, the pay rate hasn't improved in over 10 years. Of course you need tap people without a BA, because people with a college degree need and deserve higher pay.

Sub pay:

For "certificated" subs: short-term $19.58/hr, long-term $27.89/hr.

For "non-certificated" subs: short-term $18.41/hr, long-term $26.28/hr.

Montgomery County minimum wage is currently $13/hr and will rise to $14/hr on July 1, 2020, and $15/hr on July 1, 2021.

FWIW, Fairfax pays its subs a lot less and doesn’t require a BS. I subbed for several years and can honestly say that most of the subs were awful. These counties have done studies and solicited teacher feedback about how to address the shortage and have largely ignored everything they’ve been told.

What were the recommendations?

I'll go back and look it up later, but lots of support for increasing the pay on hard to fill days like Mondays, Fridays, and the days before holidays (shot down), increasing the pay based on days worked, because good subs are going to be called back (shot down), paying out unused sick/personal days upon separation from the system (doesn't happen in FCPS and was shot down, not sure about MCPS), and doing face to face interviews to make sure the candidates can at least speak English (this was FCPS and it was shot down). Fairfax audited the sub office several years ago and the audit is STILL open.

I would support all of those. I think there’s already a 30% buyback for unused days.

As others have stated, increasing the pay isn't as easy given the tight budget. I would be all for increasing pay since the pay is already super low, but where will the money come from? How much does the pay need to increase to make it more attractive?

[Anonymous]

I have a Phd in the humanities and an undergraduate degree in French plus 10 years 10 experience teaching (overseas during grad school and adjuncting at the university level). I could teach English history and French and actually teach those subjects but I'm afraid of behavior issues in high schools. My youngest kid will be in school full-time this year for the first time and I've toyed with the idea of subbing. What is it like at Whitman? What about Pyle? I'd only be looking at schools fairly close to me (western side of the county). Can any teachers weigh in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you raise the pay of subs you will get more qualified people wanting to be subs. From what I've heard, the pay rate hasn't improved in over 10 years. Of course you need tap people without a BA, because people with a college degree need and deserve higher pay.

Sub pay:

For "certificated" subs: short-term $19.58/hr, long-term $27.89/hr.

For "non-certificated" subs: short-term $18.41/hr, long-term $26.28/hr.

Montgomery County minimum wage is currently $13/hr and will rise to $14/hr on July 1, 2020, and $15/hr on July 1, 2021.

FWIW, Fairfax pays its subs a lot less and doesn’t require a BS. I subbed for several years and can honestly say that most of the subs were awful. These counties have done studies and solicited teacher feedback about how to address the shortage and have largely ignored everything they’ve been told.

What were the recommendations?

I'll go back and look it up later, but lots of support for increasing the pay on hard to fill days like Mondays, Fridays, and the days before holidays (shot down), increasing the pay based on days worked, because good subs are going to be called back (shot down), paying out unused sick/personal days upon separation from the system (doesn't happen in FCPS and was shot down, not sure about MCPS), and doing face to face interviews to make sure the candidates can at least speak English (this was FCPS and it was shot down). Fairfax audited the sub office several years ago and the audit is STILL open.

I would support all of those. I think there’s already a 30% buyback for unused days.

As others have stated, increasing the pay isn't as easy given the tight budget. I would be all for increasing pay since the pay is already super low, but where will the money come from? How much does the pay need to increase to make it more attractive?

For anyone with a BS or higher, $20/hour would get a lot more qualified people in the door. At the very least, a step increase of sorts based on # of days worked and # of years in the system should be implemented. The sub trainings and background checks cost money, and they'd probably need to do fewer of both if they could attract quality subs who stick around. Another thing that came up involved reducing the days teachers need to be off for training or in service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The system needs to focus more on its people, period, meaning the intangibles and the relationship piece I recently left the system. I’m an educator in my 40s with several graduate degrees, glowing formal and informal evaluations and tremendous success with kids. Guess what happened when I said I was considering leaving for another system? Nothing. That’s right. No one asked me why I was leaving, or told me they wish I’d reconsider, or said it was a loss. I just moved on. I might have considered returning at some point, too, but the leaving process made me feel so dispensable that I never want to feel that unappreciated again. The system needs to focus as much on their existing personnel as future subs or they’ll continue to bleed people.

I agree with this.

MCPS shows little appreciation for its teachers. It is apparent that teachers and subs are not values, while admin get paid well, and promote themselves avidly on Twitter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you raise the pay of subs you will get more qualified people wanting to be subs. From what I've heard, the pay rate hasn't improved in over 10 years. Of course you need tap people without a BA, because people with a college degree need and deserve higher pay.

Sub pay:

For "certificated" subs: short-term $19.58/hr, long-term $27.89/hr.

For "non-certificated" subs: short-term $18.41/hr, long-term $26.28/hr.

Montgomery County minimum wage is currently $13/hr and will rise to $14/hr on July 1, 2020, and $15/hr on July 1, 2021.

Sadly that is much more than FCPS pays! I think they pay around $12/hour.

Reality check for local school systems: high school students can make more than $12 doing retail or life guarding. One business in Rockville offered my child $17 per hour. No college credits required.

Substitutes need higher salaries if you want more than a babysitter in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Maybe MCPS could do some form of Uber surge pricing for subs. Not just Fridays and holidays, though that is also a good start. I was thinking habitually hard to fill schools and schools that have more than two open sub jobs on s particular day. Two open sub jobs means 20 teachers are losing their planning period. Perhaps an extra 10-15% for high demand days or urgent openings would lure more people. My neighbor won’t sub once flu season starts because he also gives music lessons 6 days a week. If he catches something, he also misses his major source of income.