Compacted math selection - when and what MAP-M score?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the chart, the 75%ile for Spring of 3rd Grade is 213.

Can anyone weigh in on whether they were rejected above 213 or accepted below it, understanding it’s not the only measure.

I based the estimate on two things:
1) MCPS is just slightly above the national percentiles
2) that about one-third of all kids at our school seem to be in this

I remember reading somewhere that third-grade teachers administer a test to students to determine readiness. The bar does not seem that high.

[Anonymous]

My child had a 228 spring MAP and was admitted. They have done fine in compacted, but I would not say it has been a cake walk.

I do think the bar is probably something like 213, but I would caution that parents whose kids are admitted right on the cusp like that should probably keep a close eye on their child to be sure they are staying on top of the work.

[Anonymous]

It's very hard to generalize whether any particular child will have a "cake walk" So much depends on the teacher's talent and style.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is in the 3rd grade and score in the 250s in the winter score, how possible is it to request them to go to compacted math 5/6?

I doubt the school would consider having a student skip the entire 4th grade math curriculum as well as half the 5th grade curriculum. At our school, 4th and 5th graders don’t have math at the same time, so it wouldn’t be possible.

Compacted math is in 4th grade so if your 3rd grade MAP score is that high, more than likely they will be in compacted math automatically and if not, you can always request it and see what they say.

They will not jump your kid over 4/5 compacted math as its not just facts but the strategies and other stuff and 5/6 math is for 5th graders. No need to rush it.

Then how are here so many kids coming from the wealthy Potomac schools who took AIM in 5th?

[Anonymous]

Just a note that this is a zombie thread and reports about specific scores are no longer valid because MCPS has changed some things in the interim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a note that this is a zombie thread and reports about specific scores are no longer valid because MCPS has changed some things in the interim.

Thanks, PP.

My kid's MAP-M score dropped to 218 from 221 (fall to winter) because they were out for a month with COVID and took the MAP-M the day they came back. I highly doubt they won't be in compacted math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to generalize whether any particular child will have a "cake walk" So much depends on the teacher's talent and style.

I remember when my 3rd grader scored around 250 at age 8. I thought it might be challenging for them. It wasn't. They felt compacted was super easy and wish they could've skipped it. I think the first unit at the beginning of 4th was a review of the multiplication tables. In 5th they covered adding and subtracting fractions with different denominators. They had mastered this simply by doing Khan academy during math in 3rd grade. I think the teacher let them do this since they knew the kid understood what was otherwise being taught. It was really great to have a teacher like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to generalize whether any particular child will have a "cake walk" So much depends on the teacher's talent and style.

I remember when my 3rd grader scored around 250 at age 8. I thought it might be challenging for them. It wasn't. They felt compacted was super easy and wish they could've skipped it. I think the first unit at the beginning of 4th was a review of the multiplication tables. In 5th they covered adding and subtracting fractions with different denominators. They had mastered this simply by doing Khan academy during math in 3rd grade. I think the teacher let them do this since they knew the kid understood what was otherwise being taught. It was really great to have a teacher like that.

I wish MCPS stopped with the one size fits all approach to teaching and tried to meet kids where they are.

[Anonymous]

I don't have information about cutoffs. But I will say that at the end of my kid's 3rd grade year, she was designated as 'borderline' for Compacted, and I was asked to have a conversation with the administration about readiness. I went into the meeting assuming it would be better for her to be in the regular course so she would master the material/not be behind others but then I learned that 60% of kids in our school were in compacted and I decided to put her into compacted.

The next two years (4th and 5th) her MAP-M scores skyrocketed-- from like high 70th percentile in 3rd (whatever the 'borderline' score was) to 90s in 4th and 5th (and onward--she is now in 7th).

What I learned is this. The MAP-M score is not about natural talent in math. It's about what you have been taught in math. In third grade, she wasn't in the top math group, and her group went more slowly so when she went into MAP-M, more of the material was unfamiliar. When she went into Compacted, she was taught math at an accelerated pace, so when she went into MAP-M, more of the material was stuff she'd been taught.

It may be that MAP-M is the best diagnostic we have, but if you're considering this choice for your kid, recognize that there is a chicken-and-egg problem. Kids who are identified early (second and third grade) for informal acceleration will always do better on the diagnostic for later acceleration.

I'd imagine this may be a particular problem for kids who are young in their grade because they may have been slower to learn in the very early grades based on lack of 'readiness' from being younger than peers. May also be a problem for minorities due to unconscious bias. My kid is in both categories, and putting her into Compacted was the best thing we did-- she has had high As all through, including in 7th grade Algebra, and MAPs continue to be in the 90s. But the school and we (parents) almost didn't put her on that path based on borderline MAP scores at end of third grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't have information about cutoffs. But I will say that at the end of my kid's 3rd grade year, she was designated as 'borderline' for Compacted, and I was asked to have a conversation with the administration about readiness. I went into the meeting assuming it would be better for her to be in the regular course so she would master the material/not be behind others but then I learned that 60% of kids in our school were in compacted and I decided to put her into compacted.

The next two years (4th and 5th) her MAP-M scores skyrocketed-- from like high 70th percentile in 3rd (whatever the 'borderline' score was) to 90s in 4th and 5th (and onward--she is now in 7th).

What I learned is this. The MAP-M score is not about natural talent in math. It's about what you have been taught in math. In third grade, she wasn't in the top math group, and her group went more slowly so when she went into MAP-M, more of the material was unfamiliar. When she went into Compacted, she was taught math at an accelerated pace, so when she went into MAP-M, more of the material was stuff she'd been taught.

It may be that MAP-M is the best diagnostic we have, but if you're considering this choice for your kid, recognize that there is a chicken-and-egg problem. Kids who are identified early (second and third grade) for informal acceleration will always do better on the diagnostic for later acceleration.

I'd imagine this may be a particular problem for kids who are young in their grade because they may have been slower to learn in the very early grades based on lack of 'readiness' from being younger than peers. May also be a problem for minorities due to unconscious bias. My kid is in both categories, and putting her into Compacted was the best thing we did-- she has had high As all through, including in 7th grade Algebra, and MAPs continue to be in the 90s. But the school and we (parents) almost didn't put her on that path based on borderline MAP scores at end of third grade.

This is very true. Its all about exposure to material. If you supplement at home, it also can give higher scores.

[Anonymous]

My 4th grader had map-m scores in the 240s last year. Her school doesn't even have compacted math. Lots of her friends score similarly, and they do eureka with the "math+" group. I look over her homework and sometimes there are mistakes and serious gaps in her understanding. The school say they will all still go to AIM in 6th, so what does it matter? We do enrichment with Beast Academy.

People really put too much stock in these exams. It's ONE test. And not a particularly good one at that. It doesn't actually test how they think or logically break down problems.

-Parent with graduate degree in applied math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 4th grader had map-m scores in the 240s last year. Her school doesn't even have compacted math. Lots of her friends score similarly, and they do eureka with the "math+" group. I look over her homework and sometimes there are mistakes and serious gaps in her understanding. The school say they will all still go to AIM in 6th, so what does it matter? We do enrichment with Beast Academy.

People really put too much stock in these exams. It's ONE test. And not a particularly good one at that. It doesn't actually test how they think or logically break down problems.

-Parent with graduate degree in applied math.

That might or might not be true. If your child is not exposed to the higher level math, her scores will not increase as much. Do you know what the cutoff is for AIM?

[Anonymous]

FWIW, my DD’s MAP-M score in Spring 2021 (third grade) was 220. She’s in compacted math this year and mostly doing very well: a B first marking period and As in the second and third. She doesn’t do anything beyond what’s assigned.

I do think it’s far too much stock in one test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 4th grader had map-m scores in the 240s last year. Her school doesn't even have compacted math. Lots of her friends score similarly, and they do eureka with the "math+" group. I look over her homework and sometimes there are mistakes and serious gaps in her understanding. The school say they will all still go to AIM in 6th, so what does it matter? We do enrichment with Beast Academy.

People really put too much stock in these exams. It's ONE test. And not a particularly good one at that. It doesn't actually test how they think or logically break down problems.

-Parent with graduate degree in applied math.

That might or might not be true. If your child is not exposed to the higher level math, her scores will not increase as much. Do you know what the cutoff is for AIM?

I don't know what the cutoff is, but my current 5th grader will take AIM next year and he scored a 252 on the MAP-M most recently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to generalize whether any particular child will have a "cake walk" So much depends on the teacher's talent and style.

I remember when my 3rd grader scored around 250 at age 8. I thought it might be challenging for them. It wasn't. They felt compacted was super easy and wish they could've skipped it. I think the first unit at the beginning of 4th was a review of the multiplication tables. In 5th they covered adding and subtracting fractions with different denominators. They had mastered this simply by doing Khan academy during math in 3rd grade. I think the teacher let them do this since they knew the kid understood what was otherwise being taught. It was really great to have a teacher like that.

I wish MCPS stopped with the one size fits all approach to teaching and tried to meet kids where they are.

Very few school’s are going to do this including private. Just imagine what this would take for a teacher and class of 24 kids. A teacher could easily have to prepare 5 different plans for each subject. Its already hard enough just to ensure that math and reading groups are getting adequate time, and mostly doesn’t happen for high fliers until upper elementary. If there were more Paras on intervention specialist maybe.