The Middle School Problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It would take a lot of coordination but this could work

The waiting list for Deal Hardy and Stuart Hobson is in the hundreds every year

All you need to do is communicate with those folks and select a different middle school in the city to "take over"

I agree, in theory, this would work. In reality, it would never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would take a lot of coordination but this could work

The waiting list for Deal Hardy and Stuart Hobson is in the hundreds every year

All you need to do is communicate with those folks and select a different middle school in the city to "take over"

I agree, in theory, this would work. In reality, it would never happen.

+ 1 billion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this is always shot down, but we need to end social promotion. At least for a one year repeat. I understand the problem with holding back a student so that you have a 12 year old with 8 year olds, etc., but why not holding a kid back one year until their reading improves? No different than the red shirting some UMC patents do.

OR classes like math and ELA are all broken out in MS so students are placed with like students, regardless of age? Base it on the PARCC scores, so the testing isn’t so useless.

There just isn't a lot of evidence that retention by itself works.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/is-retaining-students-in-the-early-grades-self-defeating/

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure if its a solvable problem. A magnet middle school would suck almost all of the above-grade level performers into one school, leaving everyone who couldn't get in to tread water in classes with even fewer well-performing cohorts. Deal in particular would probably take the biggest hit to its test scores. So, a magnet middle school would result in harming the academic performance of all other middle schools...a result which is contrary to the goal of making "middle schools better."

At least charter schools exist as an option for access to higher-performing classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole city should be outraged. It wouldn't occur to a lot of other places/cities that they need to fight and constantly lobby for safe, 50-90 % at grade level or higher. But in DC this is the case it is sad. But then we keep voting in that don't seem to do much about it.

The middle class middle students are concentrated at one middle school in the city. This leaves a very small amount of kids sprinkled at Hardy, SH, and charters. The remaining students are in deep poverty and don’t have adequate support and facing things at home that you can’t even imagine. If middle schools are 90% at risk are you really blaming the school or city that only 1/3 of those students are at level? You should be advocating for social justice, affordable housing, and jobs before even you can see the impact in the schools.

What does that even mean? How does "social justice" magically turn an uneducated single parent with too many children to support, few basic skills, and (perhaps) a substance abuse problem into a responsible citizen and effective parent?

Do you think that uneducated single moms drop from the sky, or do you think that a larger social context plays a role in their development? For example - if a boy starts getting followed around by store clerks who think he’ll steal stuff and stopped by police (including being held at gunpoint) by the time he’s 12, do you think he’s more or less likely to be a « responsible citizen »? If a family is only shown apartments in high crime areas (despite their ability to pay the rent elsewhere) do you think they are more or less likely to raise kids who are « responsible citizens »?

Actually, I think a major factor in multi-generational poverty is a culture that tolerates or encourages destructive behavior and devalues behaviors that could break the cycle. And I think this is as true in WV "hollows" as it is in blighted urban centers. And "culture" here includes the near-term material and sexual gratification that's beamed at us endlessly in music and video.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure if its a solvable problem. A magnet middle school would suck almost all of the above-grade level performers into one school, leaving everyone who couldn't get in to tread water in classes with even fewer well-performing cohorts. Deal in particular would probably take the biggest hit to its test scores. So, a magnet middle school would result in harming the academic performance of all other middle schools...a result which is contrary to the goal of making "middle schools better."

At least charter schools exist as an option for access to higher-performing classrooms.

I believe the discussion was about a regular middle school with a large core of well-performing students, not a magnet school.

But two points re magnets:

- Having magnet high schools has not hurt Wilson.

- A number of middle schools don’t have much in the way of a well-performing cohort as it is.

[Anonymous]

I made the original point above about the need for honors programs (not middle school magnets).

Honors programs would entice high-performers into local inbound schools. And, frankly, for high-performing kids from at-risk backgrounds, honors programs would help provide a way out from generational poverty.

[Anonymous]

OK so I love this thread but haven’t seen this historical POV represented: Deal was once upon a time and not long ago a POS that no one wanted. And then people seized on it and it became this “thing.” People don’t know it who aren’t from here or didn’t have kids at the right time.

My point is that you and I could be the people that cross the barrier or break some line with our kids. And I think it happens by showing up: at Stuart Hobson, at Hardy, at MacFarland, these places where we know students who live within the boundaries can hack it at Algebra, humanities and the like. If you’re willing to jump, DCPS will jump with you. I firmly believe that and to the extent that (for lack of a better term) motivated educated parents agitate for this - we get the advanced classes, we get the electives for our kids. Shunning these places is a fearful move. Moving in and demanding excellence is a great thing for everyone - us and all our neighbors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK so I love this thread but haven’t seen this historical POV represented: Deal was once upon a time and not long ago a POS that no one wanted. And then people seized on it and it became this “thing.” People don’t know it who aren’t from here or didn’t have kids at the right time.

My point is that you and I could be the people that cross the barrier or break some line with our kids. And I think it happens by showing up: at Stuart Hobson, at Hardy, at MacFarland, these places where we know students who live within the boundaries can hack it at Algebra, humanities and the like. If you’re willing to jump, DCPS will jump with you. I firmly believe that and to the extent that (for lack of a better term) motivated educated parents agitate for this - we get the advanced classes, we get the electives for our kids. Shunning these places is a fearful move. Moving in and demanding excellence is a great thing for everyone - us and all our neighbors.

Yup it's starting to happen at Jefferson so for all folks locked out start applying there

There are enough families in the save shaw middle school group that regardless of whether the school gets built they could band together and create a legit middle school for ETOP folks but yall need to coordinate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS Middle Schools don't have honors classes and regular classes?

no. They have different levels of math and language and the rest of the classes are all one level.

No longer true. Stuart Hobson now has two or three levels for science, ELA and social studies, along with ELA, math and Spanish (which they've had for a decade).

Interesting! Deal does not and I don't think hardy does either.

Because they don’t need to. Most students are on grade level coming into Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS Middle Schools don't have honors classes and regular classes?

no. They have different levels of math and language and the rest of the classes are all one level.

No longer true. Stuart Hobson now has two or three levels for science, ELA and social studies, along with ELA, math and Spanish (which they've had for a decade).

Interesting! Deal does not and I don't think hardy does either.

Because they don’t need to. Most students are on grade level coming into Deal.

They need honors classes. Not all of the students are “on grade level;” some are beyond it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole city should be outraged. It wouldn't occur to a lot of other places/cities that they need to fight and constantly lobby for safe, 50-90 % at grade level or higher. But in DC this is the case it is sad. But then we keep voting in that don't seem to do much about it.

The middle class middle students are concentrated at one middle school in the city. This leaves a very small amount of kids sprinkled at Hardy, SH, and charters. The remaining students are in deep poverty and don’t have adequate support and facing things at home that you can’t even imagine. If middle schools are 90% at risk are you really blaming the school or city that only 1/3 of those students are at level? You should be advocating for social justice, affordable housing, and jobs before even you can see the impact in the schools.

What does that even mean? How does "social justice" magically turn an uneducated single parent with too many children to support, few basic skills, and (perhaps) a substance abuse problem into a responsible citizen and effective parent?

Do you think that uneducated single moms drop from the sky, or do you think that a larger social context plays a role in their development? For example - if a boy starts getting followed around by store clerks who think he’ll steal stuff and stopped by police (including being held at gunpoint) by the time he’s 12, do you think he’s more or less likely to be a « responsible citizen »? If a family is only shown apartments in high crime areas (despite their ability to pay the rent elsewhere) do you think they are more or less likely to raise kids who are « responsible citizens »?

Actually, I think a major factor in multi-generational poverty is a culture that tolerates or encourages destructive behavior and devalues behaviors that could break the cycle. And I think this is as true in WV "hollows" as it is in blighted urban centers. And "culture" here includes the near-term material and sexual gratification that's beamed at us endlessly in music and video.

Out coug rubhas spent bullions on the war on poverty since over the last 50 years with no appreciable improvement. None. So no it’s not affordable or public housing or snap or WIC or TNF or vouchers etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would take a lot of coordination but this could work

The waiting list for Deal Hardy and Stuart Hobson is in the hundreds every year

All you need to do is communicate with those folks and select a different middle school in the city to "take over"

I agree, in theory, this would work. In reality, it would never happen.

+ 1 billion

Not only will it happen. It HAS to happen soon. We are only a few years off from a 700 kid 6th grade at Deal. The current situation is not sustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:iMHO, the problem is an unwillingness to aggregate the cohorts from successful elementary schools into middle schools. The reason Deal is good is because all the feeders are strong and the majority of the kids in those schools go to the middle school. Hardy also is fed by strong elementary schools, there have been issues with the families at the feeders trusting the middle but that is starting to change, in addition the kids that have entered it through the lottery are also kids of parents that are making efforts to get their children into a strong middle and so you have a great cohort.

Elsewhere in the city (for DCPS- leaving charters out) the middle schools re fed by a mix of elementary schools, you have SH with enough strong kids to support real honors classes and I hear great things but that is the exception.

There is an unwillingness to say “elementaries a, b and c are doing great, let’s put them on the path to the same middle school so they can form the basis of a strong cohort”. One strong elementary school cannot flip a middle school. And it is about having kids arrive at middle school prepared.

THIS. But the politicians don't seem to give a darn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would take a lot of coordination but this could work

The waiting list for Deal Hardy and Stuart Hobson is in the hundreds every year

All you need to do is communicate with those folks and select a different middle school in the city to "take over"

I agree, in theory, this would work. In reality, it would never happen.

+ 1 billion

Not only will it happen. It HAS to happen soon. We are only a few years off from a 700 kid 6th grade at Deal. The current situation is not sustainable.

For those who know more about DCPS than me — does DCPS have a plan? Is this on their radar?