Neighborhoods on the east side of Rock Creek Park

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Race/class isn't the issue so much, at least not directly. The major challenges are:

1. crime, crime, crome
2. did I mention crime?

As much as we don't want to admit it, housing patterns are vey much about race/class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race/class isn't the issue so much, at least not directly. The major challenges are:

1. crime, crime, crome
2. did I mention crime?

As much as we don't want to admit it, housing patterns are vey much about race/class.

Yes, otherwise why isn't Anacostia populated by whites? Once upon a time in DC, this was one of the best neighborhoods to live in, until desegragation took place and white families fled. Anascostia is a beautiful neighborhood, with amazing houses, and there's only one reason whites don't live there - and it's not because of crime (though crime is an issue obviously); it's because of race.

I'd say the same thing for a lot of the neighborhoods east of RCP. Before desegragation they were well-to-do white middle class areas, until the government forced them to accept black kids into their schools, and they fled. Since then these areas became mostly black. And when you have a mostly black area, you have shitty public schools (thanks to the very *fair* American system that sees the funds a public school receives based on the wealth of the area!), and all round lack of investment in public and private facilities.

[Anonymous]

I have a somewhat more sanguine view of segregation in DC -- or at least when it comes to race as a deciding factor of where to live.

It is my impression (in my circles, anyway) that professional people (okay, let's say "white" but we know that doesn't really capture the full range) who choose to live in DC are looking for the urban experience that a diverse city can offer. Personally, I chose to live in Columbia Heights because I really wanted for myself and my tot a neighborhood experience with lots of language, ethnic, income, and professional mixture--along with proximity to walkable stores, restaurants, and culture. Nothing compares to Columbia Heights for this!

But what is driving me away is crime and the for-me too-high probability that at some point we'll be the victim of a violoent or aggressive crime. In fact, it's the only thing. Not walking around a night, wondering if my daugher will be safe at the metro or walking home, it's too much for me to want to worry or think about. Buh-bye.

I'll tolerate a homogeneous neighborhood -- not my first choice by far -- to get away from the levels of anxiety I experience here.

If anything, I wonder why people of color with means stay. A variety of our long-time neighbors relate stories of bullets cracking windows; or of being mugged or robbed. My instict is to move. I honestly don't understand why they stay!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not trying to be contentious here, but I think you should recalculate the home values for Colonial Village vs. the parts of Chevy Chase DC that are closest to the park, that is, the eastern part of 20015 where you "can't walk to much." (I agree, you can't walk to much and the neighborhoods are really similar in feel).

These two batches of homes are similar in price, and I disagree that you get so much more in 20012/Colonial Village than you get in way east 20015/Chevy Chase DC. Those 20015 homes feed into Lafayette, which many people think is a good thing.

Yes, but have you seen the size of most of the Colonial Village homes? They are really huge!! (Not OP by the way).

This only matters if you are looking for a huge house and the maintenance costs that accompany them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race/class isn't the issue so much, at least not directly. The major challenges are:

1. crime, crime, crome
2. did I mention crime?

As much as we don't want to admit it, housing patterns are vey much about race/class.

Yes, otherwise why isn't Anacostia populated by whites? Once upon a time in DC, this was one of the best neighborhoods to live in, until desegragation took place and white families fled. Anascostia is a beautiful neighborhood, with amazing houses, and there's only one reason whites don't live there - and it's not because of crime (though crime is an issue obviously); it's because of race.

I'd say the same thing for a lot of the neighborhoods east of RCP. Before desegragation they were well-to-do white middle class areas, until the government forced them to accept black kids into their schools, and they fled. Since then these areas became mostly black. And when you have a mostly black area, you have shitty public schools (thanks to the very *fair* American system that sees the funds a public school receives based on the wealth of the area!), and all round lack of investment in public and private facilities.

I agree that race is the major factor, but it should also be said that Anacostia is not very convenient to the active parts of the city. Also, while I'm guessing it had a little more main street commerce once, it's really an extreme example of separation between residence and commerce and really was never meant to provide the quality of urban experience that commands high dollar values today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not trying to be contentious here, but I think you should recalculate the home values for Colonial Village vs. the parts of Chevy Chase DC that are closest to the park, that is, the eastern part of 20015 where you "can't walk to much." (I agree, you can't walk to much and the neighborhoods are really similar in feel).

These two batches of homes are similar in price, and I disagree that you get so much more in 20012/Colonial Village than you get in way east 20015/Chevy Chase DC. Those 20015 homes feed into Lafayette, which many people think is a good thing.

Yes, but have you seen the size of most of the Colonial Village homes? They are really huge!! (Not OP by the way).

This only matters if you are looking for a huge house and the maintenance costs that accompany them.

... at the expense of location. You buy yourself a giant house to sit around in until it's time to pile into the car for an official outing. On the bright side, there's a separate room for gift-wrapping, one for nose-scratching, another for the kids to bomb with tiny toys in which adults never set foot, an office for everyone-- even the pooches, and a dedicated gallery space for the Lladro collection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not trying to be contentious here, but I think you should recalculate the home values for Colonial Village vs. the parts of Chevy Chase DC that are closest to the park, that is, the eastern part of 20015 where you "can't walk to much." (I agree, you can't walk to much and the neighborhoods are really similar in feel).

These two batches of homes are similar in price, and I disagree that you get so much more in 20012/Colonial Village than you get in way east 20015/Chevy Chase DC. Those 20015 homes feed into Lafayette, which many people think is a good thing.

Yes, but have you seen the size of most of the Colonial Village homes? They are really huge!! (Not OP by the way).

This only matters if you are looking for a huge house and the maintenance costs that accompany them.

... at the expense of location. You buy yourself a giant house to sit around in until it's time to pile into the car for an official outing. On the bright side, there's a separate room for gift-wrapping, one for nose-scratching, another for the kids to bomb with tiny toys in which adults never set foot, an office for everyone-- even the pooches, and a dedicated gallery space for the Lladro collection.

Yeah cause that's exactly what it's like.

[Anonymous]

No? So maybe I exaggerated a little, but I don't understand the appeal of a huge house to a contemporary American-sized family, especially if requires location compromises and extensive maintenance commitments.

[Anonymous]

In some of these comparisons we are really comparing apples to oranges. It makes no sense to compare a neighborhood like Anacostia (horrible crime and reputation) to Chevy Chase DC. Nor does it really make sense to compare an urban area like Columbia Heights to a more residential part of the city.

I think it does make sense to compare an area like Colonial Village (arguably the most affluent residential neighborhood east of the park) to some of the residential neighborhoods west of the park. Colonial Village seems to have low crime, is populated by upper middle class professionals, and seems to be an integrated neighborhood (as opposed to be being exclusively black or white). Thus, it becomes interesting to analyze why more people are not keen on living here. Schools are certainly a factor but many people in DC do not send their children to public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Race/class isn't the issue so much, at least not directly. The major challenges are:

1. crime, crime, crome
2. did I mention crime?

Not sure whether an established neighborhood like Colonial Village/Shepherd Park has more crime than Chevy Chase or Tenleytown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The over-simplified answer to OP's question is 1) schools; and 2) race/class. West of the park is in-boundary to the best DCPS has to offer, and it is also more affluent and more white. While the latter may not be the "advantage" that it once was, I would imagine that back in the day it helped build the reputation that west of the park was more elite and prestigious than east of the park. I grew up in Shepherd Park - I think there are a lot of people that seek it out because it has good housing stock and is cheaper and more diverse than neighborhoods west of the park, but you just don't hear about it as much because it's not the default area people seek out for good houses and good schools. The schools were a real issue for the neighborhood when I was growing up.

I agree with some of what you say, but back in the day this east of the park west of the park business didn't exist and I consider it to be total bull*hit that real estate agents made up to be a code word for black vs. white. I really can't stand it. In the 70s my parents looked at homes on both sides of the park and settled in Hawthorne (which even back then had a fair amount of black people), but we had friends from all over and traveled all over the city for our activities. I think the labeling totally sucks.

I'm the PP you're quoting, and I agree - west of the park/east of the park was definitely code for the white v. black parts of the city. To some extent, it still is. As the Michigan Park poster can probably relate, there are several nice neighborhoods east of the park that never get a second look from many white homebuyers because they are off the white "radar" when it comes to buying homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a somewhat more sanguine view of segregation in DC -- or at least when it comes to race as a deciding factor of where to live.

It is my impression (in my circles, anyway) that professional people (okay, let's say "white" but we know that doesn't really capture the full range) who choose to live in DC are looking for the urban experience that a diverse city can offer. Personally, I chose to live in Columbia Heights because I really wanted for myself and my tot a neighborhood experience with lots of language, ethnic, income, and professional mixture--along with proximity to walkable stores, restaurants, and culture. Nothing compares to Columbia Heights for this!

But what is driving me away is crime and the for-me too-high probability that at some point we'll be the victim of a violoent or aggressive crime. In fact, it's the only thing. Not walking around a night, wondering if my daugher will be safe at the metro or walking home, it's too much for me to want to worry or think about. Buh-bye.

I'll tolerate a homogeneous neighborhood -- not my first choice by far -- to get away from the levels of anxiety I experience here.

If anything, I wonder why people of color with means stay. A variety of our long-time neighbors relate stories of bullets cracking windows; or of being mugged or robbed. My instict is to move. I honestly don't understand why they stay!

But some of the pps are making the point that neighborhoods like Colonial Village, Brightwood, and Michigan Park are actually lower in crime than Columbia Heights. (Comparing CH to the others is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. It is east of the park but it's much more urban.) The point is, if you are a white person, you can still avoid a homogeneous neighborhood by moving to a middle-class black residential neighborhood in DC. But it doesn't occur to a lot of white people to even investigate these neighborhoods. I remember when dh and I moved here and we asked dh's white colleagues about neighborhoods to live in -- these neighborhoods never even came up on their radar.

Granted lack of metro close to the park is a problem. (Not a problem though if you live in Brookland, Fort Totten, or Takoma. If I were ready to move, I'd be looking at Brookland myself.) Schools are also an issue for some folks. Not saying that all white people should move to these neighborhoods (we don't need another Friendship Heights or Georgetown, thanks!). Just that it is troubling that some white folks don't even consider it.

[jsteele]

We live east of the park in a very diverse neighborhood. The two obvious downsides compared to west of the park neighborhoods -- as has been mentioned repeatedly -- are lack of metro access and generally poor schools. As far as walkability to commercial areas, I don't think it's much different than many neighborhoods west of the park. However, it's a great neighborhood for evening walks.

I agree with the posters above who say these neighborhoods aren't even on many people's radars when they are house shopping. I can't count the number of visitors to our home who have said, "I didn't even know this neighborhood was here."

To make an analogy to cars, a couple decades ago, SAABs were extremely popular with college professors and well-educated people in the northeast. The car offered a lot for the money and was extremely practical. However, it didn't have a lot of brand prestige (this subsequently changed and SAABs became known as Snobs, but then the brand crashed completely). Nobody bought a SAAB because they wanted to impress their neighbors. They bought it because it's front-wheel drive, heated seats, safety, and other features were great for New England (and similar) winters.

I think many of the east of the park neighborhoods are like SAABs back in those days. They offer a lot for the money, but they lack the prestige of the west of the park neighborhoods. Obviously, that's not to say people only buy houses west of the park due to prestige. Many are buying because of schools, metro, racial fears, etc. But, I think many skip east of the park neighborhoods completely because they aren't "prestige" neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

I live in Brightwood, and I'm white. When we bought here, (before the real estate boom, don't think we could afford a cardboard box in this area if we tried to buy now) we were shocked by people not knowing about these neighborhoods. When we looked for a house, we considered safety and affordability, as well as location (I work in Maryland, so SE/SW were out). We like the diversity here. The crime is not bad for DC, it's safe to walk around. Schools are an issue, but that's the case in all but the wealthiest neighborhoods in this city.

I've lived west of the park, and I find this neighborhood much friendlier. Strangers say hello on the street, and neighbors watch out for one another. It's still a city, not a small town, but considering that, it's really pleasant and I wish people would give these neighborhoods the recognition they deserve.