Playing “dirty”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship. Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.

Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.

What are you American folks doing to the sport?

Shirt pulling and shoving are against the laws of the game and are therefore “dirty.” Hard contact and physical play are not dirty. Have you ever played soccer or watched a professional or international match? You must be kidding. Soccer is a physical, athletic, competitve sport. Thinking it is all about fancy foot skills and passing and movement off the ball is naive. Those are all very important, but so is the physicality of the game. Seriously, please watch a UEFA or South American game. Please.

You may want to watch a little more closely to the pros you referenced. Shirt pulling, tripping, shoving are accepted ways of playing, it's only illegal when a foul is called. Just the nature of the game.

I watch it closely and have played at many levels. Yes, shirt pulling, tripping, and shoving are accepted ways of playing, but something can still be "dirty" (i.e. against the rules) but still be practiced in common. Also, it is illegal if it against the rules, not only if you get caught. Just because no foul is called doesn't mean it isn't illegal or dirty., but we could argue that one forever.

I had two points. 1) To the dumb, gentle soul poster talking about American folks ruining the sport, I was pointing out that hard contact and physical play is hardly "dirty". It is in fact, indicative of a good player and a good competitor. 2) I was calling shirt pulling and shoving "dirty". Just like holding in football or pushing for a rebound in basketball, or throwing an inside pitch in baseball. It is all "dirty", but widely practiced and accepted. I personally have no issue with it, and trust that most referees will eventual call it, or if someone is doing it to me (or my kid) a little quid pro quo will usually do the trick. In other words, a little dirty play is ok as long as you're not trying to injure someone and are willing to accept the risk of having a foul called when caught and don't cry like a little baby when the ref. does catch it.

Shirt pulling, tripping shoving etc are illegal always. They are only penalized by a referee when a foul is called. Illegal vs. penalized are two very different things.
And the Advantage rule unique to soccer makes observing game officiating hard to understand for some. As does the evolution of the rules of play. And what is called/tolerated in the Premier League vs. U16 travel leagues etc is quite different as well.

Dirty is a very different thing than illegal to my opinion.
So pulling a shirt outside the box on a breakaway and taking a 'professional foul' and the yellow card is illegal but not dirty at the pro level and I would not consider it dirty at any level.
Trying to hurt another player intentionally, or playing the player not the ball (other than legal shoulder charge), I would consider dirty. Retaliating for same is also dirty but understandable.

Life and soccer are'nt necessarily fair, the ref doesnt see everything nor call all they see, and there are mean people in the world and on the pitch. Just as dirty play exists, there is a non-ref mechanism to deal with it and self-police it in the game. Best advice stick the ball in the net and don't let the dirty player win. Next best, protect oneself at all times and mix it up.
There is a way to retaliate/respond that a ref will allow and players need to learn that. Whether they want to do it or not is up to the individual. Sometimes you take the yellow card and send a message back.

Noone should ever play dirty, play hard yes, play to and with contact yes, but dirty ... only cowards do. And the poster who said retaliate when the ref isnt looking? Retaliate by wining the game, otherwise retaliate at the end of the game whether the ref is looking is irrelevant.

Overall, an odd discussion. And the Americans arent doing anything to the sport, the English and worse the Scots and Irish have played dirty for years and just finally have embraced a more beautiful game. What they used to do to poor Stanley Matthews was a shame - when they could catch him.

[Anonymous]

Question : Is flopping gamesmanship or considered dirty? I see more and more younger player flopping . I call it the Neymar effect. either way its bad for the game in my eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve had coaches and parents suggest that I need to talk to my players about and show them how to dive to embellish contact and get calls because they don’t go down and try to play through it. Not a chance.

Good for you. Every time I watch a game, especially in Europe, I see someone dive to try to get a call. Had they competed and battled through the contact they would have had a scoring chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shirt pulling, shoving, hard contact, and just physical play should be considered gamesmanship. Trying to intentionally injure someone or cleating someone would be considered dirty in my book.

Absolutely ALL those examples are NOT soccer.

What are you American folks doing to the sport?

Yes, true soccer is highlighted by players falling in writhing pain like they've suffered a gunshot wound.
This should only happen when an opposing player has made challenge and came within yard or two of the player.

Just want the euros and south americans for examples...

This ONLY happens in the men's game. I watched almost every match of the women's World Cup last year. Virtually none of the diving and theatrics. Refreshing.