APs count more in first 3 years of high school?

[Anonymous]

All honors, and AP coursework in the SECOND half of high school is rigorous, at a good school.

You people just can't accept that maybe, your kids did NOT have to get on the insane train.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that kids in public school need to frontload their AP's. this is the myth. Counselors at those schools try to dispel it. People are so nervous that they will look bad.

My very smart child delayed AP's until junior year (believe me, that took me talking her down from her fear of being outpaced by her peers). That year she took two that made sense for her interest/anticipated major, and did well. So, yes, she skipped the "easy" ones that most kids start with. She took more her senior year. She got into 7/8 schools she applied to. She was pleasantly surprised, since her peers had her convinced this approach was radically sane.

Colleges are no longer impressed by crazy high numbers of APs. It says more about the kid/family' being driven or insecure than their potential.

GPA counts more, then endless hour spent on courses that have no relevance to what the child wants to pursue.

Without saying what these schools are this is meaningless.

+100

If you set the bar low enough, anything is possible.

And the PP contradicts herself when she states that "GPA counts more," because it is the AP courses that boost GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that kids in public school need to frontload their AP's. this is the myth. Counselors at those schools try to dispel it. People are so nervous that they will look bad.

My very smart child delayed AP's until junior year (believe me, that took me talking her down from her fear of being outpaced by her peers). That year she took two that made sense for her interest/anticipated major, and did well. So, yes, she skipped the "easy" ones that most kids start with. She took more her senior year. She got into 7/8 schools she applied to. She was pleasantly surprised, since her peers had her convinced this approach was radically sane.

Colleges are no longer impressed by crazy high numbers of APs. It says more about the kid/family' being driven or insecure than their potential.

GPA counts more, then endless hour spent on courses that have no relevance to what the child wants to pursue.

Without saying what these schools are this is meaningless.

+100

If you set the bar low enough, anything is possible.

And the PP contradicts herself when she states that "GPA counts more," because it is the AP courses that boost GPA.

At some local private schools Honors and AP classes receive the same GPA boost for all (or nearly all) classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that kids in public school need to frontload their AP's. this is the myth. Counselors at those schools try to dispel it. People are so nervous that they will look bad.

My very smart child delayed AP's until junior year (believe me, that took me talking her down from her fear of being outpaced by her peers). That year she took two that made sense for her interest/anticipated major, and did well. So, yes, she skipped the "easy" ones that most kids start with. She took more her senior year. She got into 7/8 schools she applied to. She was pleasantly surprised, since her peers had her convinced this approach was radically sane.

Colleges are no longer impressed by crazy high numbers of APs. It says more about the kid/family' being driven or insecure than their potential.

GPA counts more, then endless hour spent on courses that have no relevance to what the child wants to pursue.

Without saying what these schools are this is meaningless.

+100

If you set the bar low enough, anything is possible.

And the PP contradicts herself when she states that "GPA counts more," because it is the AP courses that boost GPA.

Once again for those in the back - GPAs cannot be compared between schools. Course offerings are too different. Weights are all over the place. The admission counselor isn’t intimately familiar with each high school in their region. It’s their job.

[Anonymous]

*IS* intimately familiar!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that kids in public school need to frontload their AP's. this is the myth. Counselors at those schools try to dispel it. People are so nervous that they will look bad.

My very smart child delayed AP's until junior year (believe me, that took me talking her down from her fear of being outpaced by her peers). That year she took two that made sense for her interest/anticipated major, and did well. So, yes, she skipped the "easy" ones that most kids start with. She took more her senior year. She got into 7/8 schools she applied to. She was pleasantly surprised, since her peers had her convinced this approach was radically sane.

Colleges are no longer impressed by crazy high numbers of APs. It says more about the kid/family' being driven or insecure than their potential.

GPA counts more, then endless hour spent on courses that have no relevance to what the child wants to pursue.

Without saying what these schools are this is meaningless.

+100

If you set the bar low enough, anything is possible.

And the PP contradicts herself when she states that "GPA counts more," because it is the AP courses that boost GPA.

Once again for those in the back - GPAs cannot be compared between schools. Course offerings are too different. Weights are all over the place. The admission counselor isn’t intimately familiar with each high school in their region. It’s their job.

And for those in the front that should not be -- Comparisons still matter and of course comparisons are possible, particularly with respect to prior years from the same school.

[Anonymous]

Public schools also weight AP and Honors classes the same (at least in Montgomery County).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public schools also weight AP and Honors classes the same (at least in Montgomery County).

Depends completely on the school. In APS, intensified aka honors classes are not weighted. Only AP/IB/DE classes are weighted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Omg, stop. This line of thinking is bananas. Admissions counselors know what the course load and rigor is at a specific high school. They will know for example how unique it is for a student to be in AP Calc BC in Junior year or at some schools, not unique at all.

Relax. It will be all fine. Don’t burn out and kid and make them hate high school because you insist on having them take 12 APs before Senior year.

+1 Your AP scores don't matter as they are not required as part of your application. Don't try to cram AP's into grades 9-11. Our DD is heading to an Ivy in the fall and had completed only 1 AP prior to senior year.

How many AP’s did her school offer? Did most top students take more than one AP? Did the school also offer honors classes or was it just regular and AP?

Her school offers 20 different AP courses. Most top students take more than 1 AP prior to senior year. Yes Honors courses are offered and her non-AP classes were generally (but not all) Honors level.

Something more to this story. Kids don’t normally get into ivies by taking easier classes.

Mix in top 1% SAT, good GPA, ED application, strong ECs and demonstrated interest. Yes, it is very doable without a pile of APs.

Top SAT and easy classes looks like a coaster. Sure, fine, it can happen but extremely unlikely given the competitive landscape.

[Anonymous]

To answer OP's question, a student should first know what type of university he/she is shooting for. If planning to apply to top 20 schools, student should absolutely show rigor in course selection. How that rigor is demonstrated all depends on the school. Some schools offer many many AP classes starting in freshman year. Some don't offer APs until junior year. And on the other extreme, some schools do not offer any APs (but have rigorous courses).

That being said, if your student is not shooting for a top school, then there is less risk in not selecting the most rigorous course load. The student is competing against other students in his/her school who will certainly be taking a rigorous course load in order to gain admission to ivy or top 20. What that means is in a school that offers many APs, the student would be expected to take many APs. It is a sad truth, and a choice that the student needs to make. Another thing to consider is that with the common app making applying to schools as easy as the push of a button, the kids who are enrolled in rigorous courses and targeting top schools are applying to many many schools, including the schools that would be considered their safties. So even if you are not gunning for the tippy top schools, you will still be competing against your classmates who apply to your target schools.

For my son, he was shooting for a top 20 (not an ivy). His school does not offer APs until junior year. He took two in junior year and four in senior year. FWIW, he had excellent test scores. He was admitted to his first choice along with every other school he applied to. Someone from a public school with many APs available would not have had the same outcome with the identical course load.

The bottom line is that unfortunately the public schools that have APs starting in freshman year have created a very high pressure and stressful high school culture. Especially in the high performing public schools (like the W schools in MCPS), students are loading up on these APs at too young an age. To make things even more challenging, there is rampant grade inflation -- probably the result of lowering the bar for students who are unable to handle the AP courses at such a young age. Change is needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges don’t see your AP scores at all during the application process. You’re not supposed to send them until after you’ve been accepted and then they use them for course placement.

It is more important for them to see the clssses you’re taking and the grades earned in those classes.

False... you don't HAVE to send scores but if you have done well, you can either self-report or officially report. Colleges are trying to lessen the financial burden of sending a bunch of scores to places you might not get in, but self-reporting is free. Also you would report your AP awards (National Scholar, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that kids in public school need to frontload their AP's. this is the myth. Counselors at those schools try to dispel it. People are so nervous that they will look bad.

My very smart child delayed AP's until junior year (believe me, that took me talking her down from her fear of being outpaced by her peers). That year she took two that made sense for her interest/anticipated major, and did well. So, yes, she skipped the "easy" ones that most kids start with. She took more her senior year. She got into 7/8 schools she applied to. She was pleasantly surprised, since her peers had her convinced this approach was radically sane.

Colleges are no longer impressed by crazy high numbers of APs. It says more about the kid/family' being driven or insecure than their potential.

GPA counts more, then endless hour spent on courses that have no relevance to what the child wants to pursue.

Without saying what these schools are this is meaningless.

+100

If you set the bar low enough, anything is possible.

And the PP contradicts herself when she states that "GPA counts more," because it is the AP courses that boost GPA.

At some local private schools Honors and AP classes receive the same GPA boost for all (or nearly all) classes.

Also, the college generally unweight the GPAs and use their own formulas.

I think what people are trying to say is be sensible with the APs. Show rigor in the areas the student is interested, but you don't have to take every single AP offered to get into college. If your child is interested in engineering, they should be in AP math and science, but a history major may not need to but they should take AP history, etc. Rackiong up 20 APs by including AP Underwater Basketweaving is not impressing anyone but may be stressing your child out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To answer OP's question, a student should first know what type of university he/she is shooting for. If planning to apply to top 20 schools, student should absolutely show rigor in course selection. How that rigor is demonstrated all depends on the school. Some schools offer many many AP classes starting in freshman year. Some don't offer APs until junior year. And on the other extreme, some schools do not offer any APs (but have rigorous courses).

That being said, if your student is not shooting for a top school, then there is less risk in not selecting the most rigorous course load. The student is competing against other students in his/her school who will certainly be taking a rigorous course load in order to gain admission to ivy or top 20. What that means is in a school that offers many APs, the student would be expected to take many APs. It is a sad truth, and a choice that the student needs to make. Another thing to consider is that with the common app making applying to schools as easy as the push of a button, the kids who are enrolled in rigorous courses and targeting top schools are applying to many many schools, including the schools that would be considered their safties. So even if you are not gunning for the tippy top schools, you will still be competing against your classmates who apply to your target schools.

For my son, he was shooting for a top 20 (not an ivy). His school does not offer APs until junior year. He took two in junior year and four in senior year. FWIW, he had excellent test scores. He was admitted to his first choice along with every other school he applied to. Someone from a public school with many APs available would not have had the same outcome with the identical course load.

The bottom line is that unfortunately the public schools that have APs starting in freshman year have created a very high pressure and stressful high school culture. Especially in the high performing public schools (like the W schools in MCPS), students are loading up on these APs at too young an age. To make things even more challenging, there is rampant grade inflation -- probably the result of lowering the bar for students who are unable to handle the AP courses at such a young age. Change is needed.

I totally agree with this. And guess who the beneficiary of all of this is ... you guessed it, the College Board who gets fees to approve the curriculum and classes, for all of the tests and for all of the score reporting. Cha Ching!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school. If in an MCPS public, yes, your DC will need to take lots of APS by junior year in order to be competitive for college applications. That is because the school offers so many APs starting in freshman year. My son's public school friends were all taking APs starting freshman year and by end of junior year had six or more APs completed. If in a private school that offers limited APs, then no. It really all depends on what the school offers.

Like the PP, my son who attended a Catholic HS only took 2 APs prior to senior year. He got into his first choice school, a top 20, and many others.

I thought the College Board determined when AP classed could be offered? At our school the only AP offered prior to JR year is AP World History.

This is entirely incorrect. There is one AP class offered to freshman (NSL), sophomore year they can take APush, AP Stats and maybe AP Psych. That is it. You can no longer take AP English as a sophomore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school. If in an MCPS public, yes, your DC will need to take lots of APS by junior year in order to be competitive for college applications. That is because the school offers so many APs starting in freshman year. My son's public school friends were all taking APs starting freshman year and by end of junior year had six or more APs completed. If in a private school that offers limited APs, then no. It really all depends on what the school offers.

Like the PP, my son who attended a Catholic HS only took 2 APs prior to senior year. He got into his first choice school, a top 20, and many others.

I thought the College Board determined when AP classed could be offered? At our school the only AP offered prior to JR year is AP World History.

This is entirely incorrect. There is one AP class offered to freshman (NSL), sophomore year they can take APush, AP Stats and maybe AP Psych. That is it. You can no longer take AP English as a sophomore.

PP- To clarify, we are at a W school and this is a county wide rule. Don't stress out kids and parents unnecessarily with incorrect information.