How are the academics at Duke Ellington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah those are terrible at best.

And yet, year after year significant numbers of Ellington students go on to good colleges, with significant scholarship money.

Test scores, especially average test scores, are not everything.

To that point, important to know that some of the better college arts schools, NYU's Tisch School leading the way, have now made SAT and ACT scores optional for major that require an audition or portfolio. That's an increasing trend across the board. And as a PP suggested, it's not that arts folk are bad at language or math --there'a whole lot of middle between perfect SAT scores and counting on fingers -- it's that standardized test scores in either tend to have no correlation to college success in creative majors, particularly in a time when you tech allows you to create and distribute your work well before college. It's a new day and people who create content are in high demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah those are terrible at best.

And yet, year after year significant numbers of Ellington students go on to good colleges, with significant scholarship money.

Test scores, especially average test scores, are not everything.

I think Ballou proved that all kids can get into college regardless of actual amount learned.

And they did it with worst scores than Ellington.

This is sarcasm, correct

Yeah, the Ballou miracle, where kids graduated HS without even showing up to class for months...compared to that Ellington is Harvard!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science, simply check PARCC scores.

They are beyond dismal, especially in math.

Come on, a lot of HS kids in this city blow off the 10th grade PARCC. They don't necessarily try to answer questions correctly, or don't try very hard anyway. They and their families care about AP scores and SAT scores. Why should they care about PARCC scores? What's in it for them? I say this without defending DE's standardized test scores or academics!

Fair point and interesting theory.

Now go and look up AP and SAT scores.

Ellington's average SAT scores is higher than the DCPS average (which is 913).

DESA - 955
McKinley - 1005
Banneker - 1109
SWW - 1272

APs are reported as the % of graduating seniors who passed 1 or more AP exams with a score of 3.

DESA 29%
McKinley 20%
Banneker 62%
SWW 80%

Thank you -- wow, those are bad.

In essense, no matter how you look at it, the academics at DE are bad. I guess we could see it as a vocational school for struggling students, similar to what they do in Germany.

[Anonymous]

I'm talking to a wall, but Duke Ellington is a pre-professional performing and visual arts program.

It is not focused on AP or SAT scores; it's focused on producing students who are well trained in music, art, dance, drama and ready for art school or a conservatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm talking to a wall, but Duke Ellington is a pre-professional performing and visual arts program.

It is not focused on AP or SAT scores; it's focused on producing students who are well trained in music, art, dance, drama and ready for art school or a conservatory.

Look, the PARCC is not that hard. Kids who are scoring a 3 on it might just be having a bad day. Kids who are scoring a 1 on it despite reasonable effort are going to have challenges functioning in the real world, where life is much easier if you have the skills to do things like comparison shop, cook from a recipe, comprehend how taxes work, read job applications, understand contracts and official documents, fill out forms, send coherent emails, etc. And everyone has to do these things--even artists. If half the students at Ellington are getting 1s and 2s on the math PARCC, it's a problem even if they can dance or paint really well. It may not be a problem for a kid who is already on grade level or advanced, but there's a separate question there about whether such a kid can reach her full potential not just in the arts but in other things. A kid who gets into DESA should be able to go to college and be prepared to major in anything she likes, not just the art subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm talking to a wall, but Duke Ellington is a pre-professional performing and visual arts program.

It is not focused on AP or SAT scores; it's focused on producing students who are well trained in music, art, dance, drama and ready for art school or a conservatory.

Look, the PARCC is not that hard. Kids who are scoring a 3 on it might just be having a bad day. Kids who are scoring a 1 on it despite reasonable effort are going to have challenges functioning in the real world, where life is much easier if you have the skills to do things like comparison shop, cook from a recipe, comprehend how taxes work, read job applications, understand contracts and official documents, fill out forms, send coherent emails, etc. And everyone has to do these things--even artists. If half the students at Ellington are getting 1s and 2s on the math PARCC, it's a problem even if they can dance or paint really well. It may not be a problem for a kid who is already on grade level or advanced, but there's a separate question there about whether such a kid can reach her full potential not just in the arts but in other things. A kid who gets into DESA should be able to go to college and be prepared to major in anything she likes, not just the art subjects.

HS PARCC is given in 10th. DESA has a good graduation rate, and for all you know these students DO achieve the skills you enumerate before they graduate.

What keeps them in school -- as opposed to dropping out -- is the opportunity to excel in what they love and are talented in. College may not be the road for many of these kids, but it doesn't mean that the education they get isn't of value.

Also just 10% of students are at level 1 in ELA and 11% are at level 1 in math (still too many but not 'half'.

Level 2 = 16/39%
Level 3 = 26/35%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm talking to a wall, but Duke Ellington is a pre-professional performing and visual arts program.

It is not focused on AP or SAT scores; it's focused on producing students who are well trained in music, art, dance, drama and ready for art school or a conservatory.

Look, the PARCC is not that hard. Kids who are scoring a 3 on it might just be having a bad day. Kids who are scoring a 1 on it despite reasonable effort are going to have challenges functioning in the real world, where life is much easier if you have the skills to do things like comparison shop, cook from a recipe, comprehend how taxes work, read job applications, understand contracts and official documents, fill out forms, send coherent emails, etc. And everyone has to do these things--even artists. If half the students at Ellington are getting 1s and 2s on the math PARCC, it's a problem even if they can dance or paint really well. It may not be a problem for a kid who is already on grade level or advanced, but there's a separate question there about whether such a kid can reach her full potential not just in the arts but in other things. A kid who gets into DESA should be able to go to college and be prepared to major in anything she likes, not just the art subjects.

HS PARCC is given in 10th. DESA has a good graduation rate, and for all you know these students DO achieve the skills you enumerate before they graduate.

What keeps them in school -- as opposed to dropping out -- is the opportunity to excel in what they love and are talented in. College may not be the road for many of these kids, but it doesn't mean that the education they get isn't of value.

Also just 10% of students are at level 1 in ELA and 11% are at level 1 in math (still too many but not 'half'.

Level 2 = 16/39%
Level 3 = 26/35%

Half the students are getting 1s and 2s on math. 11+39=50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm talking to a wall, but Duke Ellington is a pre-professional performing and visual arts program.

It is not focused on AP or SAT scores; it's focused on producing students who are well trained in music, art, dance, drama and ready for art school or a conservatory.

Look, the PARCC is not that hard. Kids who are scoring a 3 on it might just be having a bad day. Kids who are scoring a 1 on it despite reasonable effort are going to have challenges functioning in the real world, where life is much easier if you have the skills to do things like comparison shop, cook from a recipe, comprehend how taxes work, read job applications, understand contracts and official documents, fill out forms, send coherent emails, etc. And everyone has to do these things--even artists. If half the students at Ellington are getting 1s and 2s on the math PARCC, it's a problem even if they can dance or paint really well. It may not be a problem for a kid who is already on grade level or advanced, but there's a separate question there about whether such a kid can reach her full potential not just in the arts but in other things. A kid who gets into DESA should be able to go to college and be prepared to major in anything she likes, not just the art subjects.

+1

Ellington is a PUBLIC SCHOOL, not some random little private conservatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science, simply check PARCC scores.

They are beyond dismal, especially in math.

Come on, a lot of HS kids in this city blow off the 10th grade PARCC. They don't necessarily try to answer questions correctly, or don't try very hard anyway. They and their families care about AP scores and SAT scores. Why should they care about PARCC scores? What's in it for them? I say this without defending DE's standardized test scores or academics!

Fair point and interesting theory.

Now go and look up AP and SAT scores.

Ellington's average SAT scores is higher than the DCPS average (which is 913).


Why are we comparing Ellington scores with three schools that are selective based on academic achievement, when Ellington is selective based on artistic merit as a priority? And by the way Ellington routinely waitlists kids on the academic border until they get grades up, but it assumes that when kids get in they will they will thrive and do better. And to the OP's basic question on academics, could Ellington do better? Yes. But what parents love about Duke is that kids thrive in a socially and culturally safe, supportive and comfortable environment and thus tend to achieve in academics later because of the intangibles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science, simply check PARCC scores.

They are beyond dismal, especially in math.

Come on, a lot of HS kids in this city blow off the 10th grade PARCC. They don't necessarily try to answer questions correctly, or don't try very hard anyway. They and their families care about AP scores and SAT scores. Why should they care about PARCC scores? What's in it for them? I say this without defending DE's standardized test scores or academics!

Fair point and interesting theory.

Now go and look up AP and SAT scores.

Ellington's average SAT scores is higher than the DCPS average (which is 913).


Why are we comparing Ellington scores with three schools that are selective based on academic achievement, when Ellington is selective based on artistic merit as a priority? And by the way Ellington routinely waitlists kids on the academic border until they get grades up, but it assumes that when kids get in they will they will thrive and do better. And to the OP's basic question on academics, could Ellington do better? Yes. But what parents love about Duke is that kids thrive in a socially and culturally safe, supportive and comfortable environment and thus tend to achieve in academics later because of the intangibles.

This was a few years ago but dd went to Ellington for a year. Don't know if things have changed. This pp is correct - the focus of Duke Ellington is preprofessional training for the arts. It's a different kind of school from Banneker and Walls. As a matter of fact, that was probably the drawback for dd. If you go there for a specific area, you are siloed into that area. Dd was in the literary media program and as I understood it she wouldn't have been able to try out for a part in the school play because that would have been reserved for the theater students. But she got lots of support for writing and got the opportunity to meet professionals in this field. I was aware of the weakness in math and science but I thought that the preprofessional training in writing nevertheless would be invaluable for her. Anyway, dd wanted to follow some of her friends to private school so we made that happen for her. At at that school, she was able to participate in all different kinds of arts, which worked better for her - but she was no longer treated like a preprofessional in writing - that is, with an emphasis on writing every day and networking with professional writers. That was a huge loss. She also lost the the warm and supportive atmosphere that I noticed at Ellington. It was like a family where the kids are loved and supported.

Yeah, so folks on this thread are unhappy about the test scores for Ellington. So, don't send your kids there. It's not the school for your kids. But if your child is devoted to their art and wants a shot at getting professional training and access to professional networks - consider the school. The rest of you - go somewhere else and feel superior. That's fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah those are terrible at best.

And yet, year after year significant numbers of Ellington students go on to good colleges, with significant scholarship money.

Test scores, especially average test scores, are not everything.

To that point, important to know that some of the better college arts schools, NYU's Tisch School leading the way, have now made SAT and ACT scores optional for major that require an audition or portfolio. That's an increasing trend across the board. And as a PP suggested, it's not that arts folk are bad at language or math --there'a whole lot of middle between perfect SAT scores and counting on fingers -- it's that standardized test scores in either tend to have no correlation to college success in creative majors, particularly in a time when you tech allows you to create and distribute your work well before college. It's a new day and people who create content are in high demand.

I'd agree with you if the SAT wasn't such an manageable test, or should be for HS upperclassmen/women in this day in age, at least for kids who like to read and can compute at a middle school level. In this "new day," people who create content need to be literate and numerate. A decent SAT score, in the 500s-700s, should not be a tall order for DE seniors. Not at all.

[Anonymous]

Same point as 9:59 made about PARCC scores and DE students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science, simply check PARCC scores.

They are beyond dismal, especially in math.

Come on, a lot of HS kids in this city blow off the 10th grade PARCC. They don't necessarily try to answer questions correctly, or don't try very hard anyway. They and their families care about AP scores and SAT scores. Why should they care about PARCC scores? What's in it for them? I say this without defending DE's standardized test scores or academics!

Fair point and interesting theory.

Now go and look up AP and SAT scores.

Ellington's average SAT scores is higher than the DCPS average (which is 913).


Why are we comparing Ellington scores with three schools that are selective based on academic achievement, when Ellington is selective based on artistic merit as a priority? And by the way Ellington routinely waitlists kids on the academic border until they get grades up, but it assumes that when kids get in they will they will thrive and do better. And to the OP's basic question on academics, could Ellington do better? Yes. But what parents love about Duke is that kids thrive in a socially and culturally safe, supportive and comfortable environment and thus tend to achieve in academics later because of the intangibles.

This was a few years ago but dd went to Ellington for a year. Don't know if things have changed. This pp is correct - the focus of Duke Ellington is preprofessional training for the arts. It's a different kind of school from Banneker and Walls. As a matter of fact, that was probably the drawback for dd. If you go there for a specific area, you are siloed into that area. Dd was in the literary media program and as I understood it she wouldn't have been able to try out for a part in the school play because that would have been reserved for the theater students. But she got lots of support for writing and got the opportunity to meet professionals in this field. I was aware of the weakness in math and science but I thought that the preprofessional training in writing nevertheless would be invaluable for her. Anyway, dd wanted to follow some of her friends to private school so we made that happen for her. At at that school, she was able to participate in all different kinds of arts, which worked better for her - but she was no longer treated like a preprofessional in writing - that is, with an emphasis on writing every day and networking with professional writers. That was a huge loss. She also lost the the warm and supportive atmosphere that I noticed at Ellington. It was like a family where the kids are loved and supported.

Yeah, so folks on this thread are unhappy about the test scores for Ellington. So, don't send your kids there. It's not the school for your kids. But if your child is devoted to their art and wants a shot at getting professional training and access to professional networks - consider the school. The rest of you - go somewhere else and feel superior. That's fine.

Thank you for this, it is very helpful. I am not so much worried about the school's test scores as wanting to know whether an already strong student can continue to have his/her academic needs met along with the arts. I want my academically strong student to be pushed in something and the something she would like to be pushed in is the arts (that is where all her outside of school energy goes now) so I would much rather have her at Ellington and happy and voluntarily working very hard at her art (along with doing her academic work - which she has always done) than at Walls or Banneker or Wilson. My other concern is the one you voice, that the kids are siloed into a single art and cannot participate in the others to any significant degree.

[Anonymous]

There are many wonderful things about Ellington, but academics are not a strong selling point. They want everyone to succeed/graduate, and even in the honors and AP classes the standards are very low. Most, though not all, of the students are not there for the academics and are just enduring the academic block. Having said that, there are some excellent teachers. I also think that the administration is aware that they need to do more for the cohort that is academically motivated, but they have had their hands full the past couple of years with the move and putting out fires.

The silos of the arts departments are very real. Occasionally, a couple of departments will collaborate on a performance or event, but it would be great if it happened more. Some of the departments are better funded and managed than others. It is far from perfect (and some would argue that it is extremely dysfunctional), but for kids who are passionate about their art and in one of the high functioning departments, it is a special place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are many wonderful things about Ellington, but academics are not a strong selling point. They want everyone to succeed/graduate, and even in the honors and AP classes the standards are very low. Most, though not all, of the students are not there for the academics and are just enduring the academic block. Having said that, there are some excellent teachers. I also think that the administration is aware that they need to do more for the cohort that is academically motivated, but they have had their hands full the past couple of years with the move and putting out fires.

The silos of the arts departments are very real. Occasionally, a couple of departments will collaborate on a performance or event, but it would be great if it happened more. Some of the departments are better funded and managed than others. It is far from perfect (and some would argue that it is extremely dysfunctional), but for kids who are passionate about their art and in one of the high functioning departments, it is a special place.

Sure it's an special place.

Where else can you waste hundreds of millions of taxpayer money while pursuing your hobbies and NOT getting an education?