Where are all the high income folks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can make a ton of money and still think certain things are a lot of money.

My parents have an HHI of $1M or so and a net worth of several million. They own property in Manhattan. My mom still won't usually pay for Acela tickets to go from NYC to BWI because she thinks they're too expensive.

Sorry to break it to you, $1M isn't much in Manhattan anymore

They're doing just fine. They have a beautiful apartment in a completely renovated pre-war building and just bought a Steinway baby grand.

Also, these graphs would suggest that $1M is still quite good: https://statisticalatlas.com/county-subdivision/New-York/New-York-County/Manhattan/Household-Income

I'm wondering just how you got that idea, seeing how the graph tops out at $250k

The graph shows that $250k is in the top 5% of household income in Manhattan. So it stands to reason that $1M, which is higher than that, is "still quite good," as PP said. How is this confusing?

I can't believe a graph that says the lower level top 5% of Manhattan incomes is $250k or that the median is $800k.


Who's buying all the $5 million dollar apartments? who's sending kids to $50k a year private school? who do all those $100k luxury cars on the upper east & west sides in belong to? who do all the boutiques sell to?


Why do people making $500k+ a year say they can't afford the city?

This should be good

Saudis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is why I love DC and find it different from a lot of cities I've lived in across America (LA, Chicago, NYC) - sure, there's a ton of new money, you'll find that everywhere, but for the most part you find more millionaires driving 15 year old cars here than anywhere else.

It's cool to be financially smart...and less conspicuous with your money. DC values education over that low class vegas flash.

I don't know that DC is exceptional in that sense. I grew up in Westchester County, NY and saw plenty of old money people driving beat-up Chevys. You'd never know they had trust funds.

This is patently false. All the rich people in my neighborhood drive nice cars


- scarsdale resident

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is why I love DC and find it different from a lot of cities I've lived in across America (LA, Chicago, NYC) - sure, there's a ton of new money, you'll find that everywhere, but for the most part you find more millionaires driving 15 year old cars here than anywhere else.

It's cool to be financially smart...and less conspicuous with your money. DC values education over that low class vegas flash.

I don't know that DC is exceptional in that sense. I grew up in Westchester County, NY and saw plenty of old money people driving beat-up Chevys. You'd never know they had trust funds.

This is patently false. All the rich people in my neighborhood drive nice cars


- scarsdale resident

PP here. That's cool. I grew up in Chappaqua and had a different experience. You know what? People can have different experiences!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is why I love DC and find it different from a lot of cities I've lived in across America (LA, Chicago, NYC) - sure, there's a ton of new money, you'll find that everywhere, but for the most part you find more millionaires driving 15 year old cars here than anywhere else.

It's cool to be financially smart...and less conspicuous with your money. DC values education over that low class vegas flash.

I don't know that DC is exceptional in that sense. I grew up in Westchester County, NY and saw plenty of old money people driving beat-up Chevys. You'd never know they had trust funds.

This is patently false. All the rich people in my neighborhood drive nice cars


- scarsdale resident

PP here. That's cool. I grew up in Chappaqua and had a different experience. You know what? People can have different experiences!

In all fairness, Chappaqua isn't as rich as Scarsdale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is why I love DC and find it different from a lot of cities I've lived in across America (LA, Chicago, NYC) - sure, there's a ton of new money, you'll find that everywhere, but for the most part you find more millionaires driving 15 year old cars here than anywhere else.

It's cool to be financially smart...and less conspicuous with your money. DC values education over that low class vegas flash.

I don't know that DC is exceptional in that sense. I grew up in Westchester County, NY and saw plenty of old money people driving beat-up Chevys. You'd never know they had trust funds.

This is patently false. All the rich people in my neighborhood drive nice cars


- scarsdale resident

PP here. That's cool. I grew up in Chappaqua and had a different experience. You know what? People can have different experiences!

In all fairness, Chappaqua isn't as rich as Scarsdale.

Oh yeah, we were dirt poor:

Chappaqua median household income, 2016: $155,232
Scarsdale median household income, 2016: over $200,000

Yes, Scarsdale has a higher median HHI, but Chappaqua isn't exactly a slum.

[Anonymous]

I think first generation wealth tends to be more conservative with debt than multi-generational wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is why I love DC and find it different from a lot of cities I've lived in across America (LA, Chicago, NYC) - sure, there's a ton of new money, you'll find that everywhere, but for the most part you find more millionaires driving 15 year old cars here than anywhere else.

It's cool to be financially smart...and less conspicuous with your money. DC values education over that low class vegas flash.

I don't know that DC is exceptional in that sense. I grew up in Westchester County, NY and saw plenty of old money people driving beat-up Chevys. You'd never know they had trust funds.

This is patently false. All the rich people in my neighborhood drive nice cars


- scarsdale resident

PP here. That's cool. I grew up in Chappaqua and had a different experience. You know what? People can have different experiences!

In all fairness, Chappaqua isn't as rich as Scarsdale.

Oh yeah, we were dirt poor:

Chappaqua median household income, 2016: $155,232
Scarsdale median household income, 2016: over $200,000

Yes, Scarsdale has a higher median HHI, but Chappaqua isn't exactly a slum.

$155,232 a year? That's more than enough to have a couple of Range Rovers

[Anonymous]

It is not that we don’t know how to leverage low interest debt - we just don’t want to b bothered. Our house is small but enough for two of us w kids at college - we don’t need a macmansion. So why bother taking a mortgage for such a small amount? Our HHI is over $1M w NW of $10M. We just find it easier to buy things w cash than to finance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not that we don’t know how to leverage low interest debt - we just don’t want to b bothered. Our house is small but enough for two of us w kids at college - we don’t need a macmansion. So why bother taking a mortgage for such a small amount? Our HHI is over $1M w NW of $10M. We just find it easier to buy things w cash than to finance.

There is a difference between chosing not to do it, and repeatedly posting it should never be done. OP is right, most posters here fall into the latter category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can make a ton of money and still think certain things are a lot of money.

My parents have an HHI of $1M or so and a net worth of several million. They own property in Manhattan. My mom still won't usually pay for Acela tickets to go from NYC to BWI because she thinks they're too expensive.

Sorry to break it to you, $1M isn't much in Manhattan anymore

They're doing just fine. They have a beautiful apartment in a completely renovated pre-war building and just bought a Steinway baby grand.

Also, these graphs would suggest that $1M is still quite good: https://statisticalatlas.com/county-subdivision/New-York/New-York-County/Manhattan/Household-Income

I'm wondering just how you got that idea, seeing how the graph tops out at $250k

The graph shows that $250k is in the top 5% of household income in Manhattan. So it stands to reason that $1M, which is higher than that, is "still quite good," as PP said. How is this confusing?

I can't believe a graph that says the lower level top 5% of Manhattan incomes is $250k or that the median is $800k.


Who's buying all the $5 million dollar apartments? who's sending kids to $50k a year private school? who do all those $100k luxury cars on the upper east & west sides in belong to? who do all the boutiques sell to?


Why do people making $500k+ a year say they can't afford the city?

This should be good

Not pp, but you realized that there's a difference between assets and income, and that rich people have an incentive (taxes!) to minimize "income?" Charts that show income have very little to do with wealth. This is why trying to correlate average income to real estate prices doesn't work in high end neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can make a ton of money and still think certain things are a lot of money.

My parents have an HHI of $1M or so and a net worth of several million. They own property in Manhattan. My mom still won't usually pay for Acela tickets to go from NYC to BWI because she thinks they're too expensive.

Sorry to break it to you, $1M isn't much in Manhattan anymore

Oh, FFS. A HHI of $1M is at the 99.8% percentile nationwide, meaning only 252,440 households make more than this in a year. Manhattan has 748,293 households. Thus, even if literally every one of the 248,293 wealthiest households in the US were in Manhattan, an income of $1M would still be in the top third.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are all the high income folks? why is every comment on here 5k a month is too expensive for a mortgage, we would never lease a car, this is middle class no that is upper class etc etc


This is money & finances, shouldn't there be, you know, people with money?

There are an abundance of people on this forum who don’t understand how to use low interest debt to their advanatage. That doesn’t necessarily correlate to their income.

Perhaps there are also an abundance of people who realize that it is physically impossible for the world economy to grow indefinitely?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our HHI is $1.3M. Our 15-year mortgage is under $5K (PITI) for an unremarkable 4 bedroom, 3-bath house in upper NW DC. We own our two cars (one hybrid, one electric). We send our two kids to private schools. I earn $100K, DH brings home $1.2M. I don't intend to quit my career, which has excellent benefits and for which I have earned a bit of seniority and therefore have a lot of flexibility and autonomy. We max out retirement and college savings, and put a lot into CDs and money market accounts.

Once you reach a certain income level to cover basics, it all comes down to budgeting and saving. Obviously, if you have a higher income, there's a lot more wiggle room, but there are many people with very high incomes who manage to spend all their money very quickly.

Our major indulgence is the private school tuition. We have nice, safe Japanese cars (not luxury cars); a perfectly nice home in a perfectly nice neighborhood; and we buy virtually all our groceries from places like Whole Foods. Clothes are purchased on sale from stores like JCrew and Hanna Andersson--so nice, but not designer. While we could afford more expensive things, we have decided to be content with what is objectively more than good enough. We make the exception for private school because we feel that the experience of the superb education is affordable for us, but we would be happy to send our kids to our neighborhood public schools if finances were tighter. I would characterize our lifestyle as comfortable--neither frugal nor extravagant given our income.

I think I probably know you. Or rather I know a bunch of families that fit this general description. It’s very common in NW DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are all the high income folks? why is every comment on here 5k a month is too expensive for a mortgage, we would never lease a car, this is middle class no that is upper class etc etc


This is money & finances, shouldn't there be, you know, people with money?

There are an abundance of people on this forum who don’t understand how to use low interest debt to their advanatage. That doesn’t necessarily correlate to their income.

+1

it blows my mind.

Let me blow your mind even more. You ready? I have no mortgage on my primary home. This does not be I have not leveraged my money. I think you are very linear in your thinking.

Different poster here. Sure I can imagine scenarios where your situation of no mortgage and leveraged investment could have happened. But in the low interest rate environment of the past few years, it'd be pretty illogical to not take advantage of a loan backed by a primary residence. What other funding source for leverage gives you superior rates? We are carrying something like 3% on our primary residence.

I purchased the house 10 years ago for 480k at 15yrs when my income situation was dramatically different. I have 3 kids all deeply ingrained in the community, a large enough home, and no desire to move. I didnt care to have the hassle of a mortgage. I already have so many complicated tax gyrations going on, the amount of advantage I get from that is really just noise. I have trusts, do tax loss harvesting, and have much leveraged and really didnt need to be bothered with a 300k+note. I also dont lease or finance vehicles. My CPA has many tricks to keep me paying as little in taxes as legally possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly this is why I love DC and find it different from a lot of cities I've lived in across America (LA, Chicago, NYC) - sure, there's a ton of new money, you'll find that everywhere, but for the most part you find more millionaires driving 15 year old cars here than anywhere else.

It's cool to be financially smart...and less conspicuous with your money. DC values education over that low class vegas flash.

I don't know that DC is exceptional in that sense. I grew up in Westchester County, NY and saw plenty of old money people driving beat-up Chevys. You'd never know they had trust funds.

This is patently false. All the rich people in my neighborhood drive nice cars


- scarsdale resident

PP here. That's cool. I grew up in Chappaqua and had a different experience. You know what? People can have different experiences!

In all fairness, Chappaqua isn't as rich as Scarsdale.

Oh yeah, we were dirt poor:

Chappaqua median household income, 2016: $155,232
Scarsdale median household income, 2016: over $200,000

Yes, Scarsdale has a higher median HHI, but Chappaqua isn't exactly a slum.

Scarsdale people like to keep up with the Joneses.